Purge of Dalaran

90 Goblin Shaman
8090
1) I'd prefer that the Horde didn't get to go back to Dalaran. Let the Alliance have this, since they've pretty much be constantly kicked in the balls since Cata.

2) It'd bring an interesting change to the Horde, the first Warchief not to be a Orc. However I am a little unnerved by the fact he was gonna jump ship at the first sign of trouble. So no, despite his HUGE increase in popularity (going from a no-one to fan favorite is impressive) I don't think he will be Warchief.

However with no other candidates it'll be either Baine or Vol'jin, the former being unlikely since in one move blizz made almost everyone dislike him. (Exiling Tauren for wanting to fight the Alliance)
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90 Human Mage
15925
Jaina has said that she won't even think of making peace with the Horde as long as Garrosh is Warchief.

Which probably means that she will make peace with them after he is deposed.

And reopening Dalaran to the Horde might indeed be part of that deal.
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90 Human Paladin
8545
Jaina has said that she won't even think of making peace with the Horde as long as Garrosh is Warchief.

Which probably means that she will make peace with them after he is deposed.

And reopening Dalaran to the Horde might indeed be part of that deal.


And making the biggest victory we had in the war vanish. I can see it happening sadly.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Jaina has said that she won't even think of making peace with the Horde as long as Garrosh is Warchief.

Which probably means that she will make peace with them after he is deposed.

And reopening Dalaran to the Horde might indeed be part of that deal.


And making the biggest victory we had in the war vanish. I can see it happening sadly.


Sure if you consider Purge of Dalaran a victory. >_>
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
02/06/2013 11:01 PMPosted by Gibbons
And reopening Dalaran to the Horde might indeed be part of that deal.


What kind of demand is "unfettered access to your cities?" That's not a peace deal, that's surrender arrangements.

02/06/2013 11:11 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Sure if you consider Purge of Dalaran a victory. >_>


How was it not a victory? Horde were killed and ejected from Alliance territory.
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89 Undead Warlock
5785
02/06/2013 11:01 PMPosted by Gibbons
And reopening Dalaran to the Horde might indeed be part of that deal.


Who will repsent the Horde?

The Blood elves HATE Dalaran now, the undead HATE humans because.. somereason.

Orcs, trolls, pandaren and goblins have no reason to join Dalaran.
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90 Human Mage
15925
What kind of demand is "unfettered access to your cities?"


The Horde have never been allowed in the Silver Enclave, and they probably never will be. Their access will hardly be unfettered.

And what other cities would they have unfettered access to? Dalaran is only one city.
Edited by Gibbons on 2/7/2013 5:25 AM PST
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
The Horde have never been allowed in the Silver Enclave, and they probably never will be. Their access will hardly be unfettered.

And what other cities would they have unfettered access to? Dalaran is only one city.


Ok, they don't get to go into the Silver Enclave. They still get access to the majority of an Alliance-aligned city that was previously exploited to steal magical weapons from other Alliance cities by Horde members.

Why would Jaina be making this 'deal'? She gains nothing out of it.

Plus, as Xim said, the Blood Elves are hardly going to want to return to it.
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90 Human Mage
15925
What other magical weapons, from what other Alliance cities?

I know they stole the Divine Bell from Darnassus, but that was only one magical weapon and one Alliance city. Your use of the plural implies that there were other thefts.

In any event, the Blood Elves blame Garrosh at least as much as they blame Jaina for that fiasco, so of course the situation will change when Garrosh is gone. Especially since Jaina's hatred of the Horde also seems to begin and end with Garrosh.

Besides, how else would Jaina reward the Blood Elves for helping her defeat Garrosh?
Edited by Gibbons on 2/7/2013 5:49 AM PST
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/07/2013 05:45 AMPosted by Gibbons
In any event, the Blood Elves blame Garrosh at least as much as they blame Jaina for that fiasco, so of course the situation will change when Garrosh is gone. Especially since Jaina's hatred of the Horde also seems to begin and end with Garrosh.


So when Garrosh dies, their hatred of Jaina dies with him? Not likely. Have you heard Theron's comments at the end of the chain?

Besides, how else would Jaina reward the Blood Elves for helping her defeat Garrosh?


Oh jesus...

She shouldn't be rewarding them at all. They're rebelling against Garrosh whether she pays them off or not, and they practically say as much in 5.2. She gains nothing but members of an enemy nation when she accepts the Horde into Dalaran.

This still isn't addressing that the Horde presence in Dalaran has been exploited twice to harm the Alliance of which both Dalaran and Jaina is a part of. They're a security risk.
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90 Human Mage
15925
Jaina had a very specific reason for banishing the Sunreavers from Dalaran: She suspected that they had helped Garrosh steal the Divine Bell.

Sooner or later, she is going to realize that most of them weren't in league with Garrosh, and thus her reason for banishing them will no longer be valid. What else could she do then but apologize to and/or pardon those who were wrongfully banished?

Of course, how the Sunreavers would respond to that apology and/or pardon is another matter...
Edited by Gibbons on 2/7/2013 7:43 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
Jaina had a very specific reason for banishing the Sunreavers from Dalaran: She suspected that they had helped Garrosh steal the Divine Bell.

Sooner or later, she is going to realize that most of them weren't in league with Garrosh, and thus her reason for banishing them will no longer be valid. What else could she do then but apologize to and/or pardon those who were wrongfully banished?

Of course, how the Sunreavers would respond to that apology and/or pardon is another matter...


This is true. Jania has deeply wronged people she once called friends and allies and she did so without much cause. If she ever realizes how much of an angry idiot she has been, she should feel obligated to set things right.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
Jaina had a very specific reason for banishing the Sunreavers from Dalaran: She suspected that they had helped Garrosh steal the Divine Bell.

Sooner or later, she is going to realize that most of them weren't in league with Garrosh, and thus her reason for banishing them will no longer be valid. What else could she do then but apologize to and/or pardon those who were wrongfully banished?

Of course, how the Sunreavers would respond to that apology and/or pardon is another matter...


They should still be banished from the city. Any Sunreavers that are innocent will likely be given several choices. Either remain a Sunreaver and leave the city or renounce the Sunreavers and swear allegiance to the Kirin Tor. After which they will be watched to make sure they keep to their oath. Or stay in prison. There isn't any reason for the Sunreavers to be allowed back n the city like they were.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/07/2013 07:40 AMPosted by Gibbons
Jaina had a very specific reason for banishing the Sunreavers from Dalaran: She suspected that they had helped Garrosh steal the Divine Bell.


The Sunreavers pose a security risk to the Alliance that has been capitlised on multiple times. End of discussion. She needs no more reason than that to keep them out.

Dalaran isn't the neutral city it once was, it's Alliance, as is Jaina, as are the Kirin'Tor. Letting the Horde back into Dalaran is like letting them into Stormwind. Kyn's idea is a good one. They want in? Give up all ties to the Horde, swear allegiance to the Alliance and Kirin'Tor, then live amongst the rest of the populace. No heavily guarded city district.
Edited by Gandred on 2/7/2013 8:12 AM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Jaina had a very specific reason for banishing the Sunreavers from Dalaran: She suspected that they had helped Garrosh steal the Divine Bell.

Sooner or later, she is going to realize that most of them weren't in league with Garrosh, and thus her reason for banishing them will no longer be valid. What else could she do then but apologize to and/or pardon those who were wrongfully banished?

Of course, how the Sunreavers would respond to that apology and/or pardon is another matter...


They should still be banished from the city. Any Sunreavers that are innocent will likely be given several choices. Either remain a Sunreaver and leave the city or renounce the Sunreavers and swear allegiance to the Kirin Tor. After which they will be watched to make sure they keep to their oath. Or stay in prison. There isn't any reason for the Sunreavers to be allowed back n the city like they were.


IF any of them are innocent which I hope I'm wrong.

The Sunreavers pose a security risk to the Alliance that has been capitlised on multiple times. End of discussion. She needs no more reason than that to keep them out.


Let's avoid blanket statements. Jaina WILL calm down. Weather the Sunreavers/Lor'themar will forgive them is another matter and considering Blood Elves...I doubt it.
Edited by Lorthuron on 2/7/2013 8:11 AM PST
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/07/2013 08:09 AMPosted by Lorthuron
Let's avoid blanket statements. Jaina WILL calm down. Weather the Sunreavers/Lor'themar will forgive them is another matter and considering Blood Elves...I doubt it.


Let's avoid falsely claiming other people have made blanket statements because they speak bluntly. The Sunreavers do pose a security risk. They are Horde members, the Horde is (or soon was) at war with the Alliance, and the Horde leadership has shown no qualms about getting Sunreavers to abuse Dalaran's powers to harm the rest of the Alliance.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
02/07/2013 08:14 AMPosted by Gandred
Let's avoid blanket statements. Jaina WILL calm down. Weather the Sunreavers/Lor'themar will forgive them is another matter and considering Blood Elves...I doubt it.


Let's avoid falsely claiming other people have made blanket statements because they speak bluntly. The Sunreavers do pose a security risk. They are Horde members, the Horde is (or soon was) at war with the Alliance, and the Horde leadership has shown no qualms about getting Sunreavers to abuse Dalaran's powers to harm the rest of the Alliance.


They do pose a risk but I am pointing out we have no idea if all of them are guilty and when this war ends the culprits and if the whole Sunreaver faction as a whole is guilty should come up unless you like loose ends.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/07/2013 08:20 AMPosted by Lorthuron
They do pose a risk but I am pointing out we have no idea if all of them are guilty and when this war ends the culprits and if the whole Sunreaver faction as a whole is guilty should come up unless you like loose ends.


When have I ever claimed every single Sunreaver was guilty? They obviously aren't. Most are shocked at what happened.

But that doesn't change the fact that they, as an organisation, are a danger to the Alliance when allowed to have their own city district, guarded with soldiers and left unchecked, in Dalaran.

After everything that has happened, Jaina restoring the Wrath status quo could possibly be the stupidest thing she's ever. Kyn's idea is good. If they love Dalaran (an Alliance city) so much? Let them join the Kirin'Tor and the Alliance.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
02/07/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Gandred
Let them join the Kirin'Tor and the Alliance.

Not sure why any of them would pick this at this point, considering they've been imprisoned en masse twice in living memory and one time each and every last one was sentenced to death.

Especially considering the choice of staying comes with the added bonus of being treated as a second class citizen and being held in suspicion for the rest of your life, despite very often having been loyal to the city longer than any Human.

Odds are Jaian will get her little power trip over with, torture a few Blood Elves (Before anyone jumps down my throat, consider we know the Kirin Tor sanctions torture as of Borean Tundra questing.), realize the vast majority of the Sunreavers really didn't know anything about the Bell, then release most of them after the war is concluded.

Then some number of years later, the Kirin Tor will issue a halfhearted official apology for imprisoning tons of people.

That's how these things usually pan out in the real world, anyways.
Edited by Kellick on 2/7/2013 8:44 AM PST
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
Not sure why any of them would pick this at this point, considering they've been imprisoned en masse twice in living memory and one time each and every last one was sentenced to death.

Especially considering the choice of staying comes with the added bonus of being treated as a second class citizen and being held in suspicion for the rest of your life, despite very often having been loyal to the city longer than any Human.


Indeed.
Edited by Gandred on 2/7/2013 8:50 AM PST
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