Purge of Dalaran

90 Human Mage
15925
Jaina had a very specific reason for banishing the Sunreavers from Dalaran: She suspected that they had helped Garrosh steal the Divine Bell.

Sooner or later, she is going to realize that most of them weren't in league with Garrosh, and thus her reason for banishing them will no longer be valid. What else could she do then but apologize to and/or pardon those who were wrongfully banished?

Of course, how the Sunreavers would respond to that apology and/or pardon is another matter...


This is true. Jania has deeply wronged people she once called friends and allies and she did so without much cause. If she ever realizes how much of an angry idiot she has been, she should feel obligated to set things right.


Well, to do what she can to set things right. All she can really do regarding her relations with the Sunreavers is to admit that she imprisoned and exiled innocents and apologize for it.

I wouldn't put it past the Sunreavers to say "To hell with your apology," though.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
02/07/2013 08:26 AMPosted by Gandred
But that doesn't change the fact that they, as an organisation, are a danger to the Alliance when allowed to have their own city district, guarded with soldiers and left unchecked, in Dalaran.


And the Silver Convenant aren't a threat to the Horde? Keep in mind that Jania, despite her words of wishing Dalaran to remain a beacon (barf), allowed the Bell to remain in Alliance hands, even before Varian agreed to not use the Sha's power. Jania has tentatively assisted the Alliance, just as Rhonin did before at Theramore.

Jania isn't right. She's a hypocrite and has as much right being in Dalaran as the Sunreavers do, including the ones that assisted the Horde!
Edited by Cbredbeard on 2/7/2013 8:55 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
02/07/2013 08:09 AMPosted by Lorthuron
IF any of them are innocent which I hope I'm wrong.


I'm sure most of the Sunreavers are in fact, innocent. That's never been in doubt. But it's very likely that there were others who were guilty of aiding the Horde. There cannot have been just two people who did it. The organization had to be taken into custody once it's leader refused to leave. That had to be done asap and it was. From what I have heard, the majority of the Sunreavers blame not only Jaina for having them tossed in prison, but they blame Garrosh for putting them in this situation that got them arrested.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
02/07/2013 08:56 AMPosted by Kynrind
but they blame Garrosh for putting them in this situation that got them arrested.


What'd he do wrong though?
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
02/07/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Cbredbeard
But that doesn't change the fact that they, as an organisation, are a danger to the Alliance when allowed to have their own city district, guarded with soldiers and left unchecked, in Dalaran.


And the Silver Convenant aren't a threat to the Horde? Keep in mind that Jania, despite her words of wishing Dalaran to remain a beacon (barf), allowed the Bell to remain in Alliance hands, even before Varian agreed to not use the Sha's power. Jania has tentatively assisted the Alliance, just as Rhonin did before at Theramore.

Jania isn't right. She's a hypocrite and has as much right being in Dalaran as the Sunreavers do, including the ones that assisted the Horde!


I hope the Silver Convanent is a serious threat to the Horde, but the SC was not helping the Alliance attack the Horde. Unlike the Sunreavers were helping the Horde attack the Alliance. Jaina was right and as the head of the Council of Six, she had to act to protect the city's interests. Since the Sunreavers have twice now abused their position to aid the Horde, she had every right to banish or lock up the Sunreaver organization. As a part of Dalaran and the Kirin Tor, the Sunreavers were obliged to help the Kirin Tor in protecting the Alliance and keep dangerous artifacts out of the Horde's hands. It doesn;t matter that the Sunreavers were technically a part of the Horde, as a part of the Kirin Tor, their loyalty should have overridden any Horde ties, or they could have stayed neutral for the duration of the war.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
02/07/2013 09:02 AMPosted by Cbredbeard
but they blame Garrosh for putting them in this situation that got them arrested.


What'd he do wrong though?


He had them abuse their position in the Kirin Tor to betray the organization. The first time in such a way that it got the KT leader killed. The second by routing a portal through Dalaran to bypass the anti-portal wards Jaina had set up to keep out any other portals. Only a Sunreaver could have routed a portal through Dalaran. By using the Sunreavers, he's put their allegiances in question. Are they more loyal to the Kirin Tor or the Horde? Apparently, some have chosen the Horde and it's damned the entire organization.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
I fail to see how he did anything wrong though.

And the first thing Jania did after kicking the Sunreavers out was join the Alliance. She didn't launch an investigation to see what happened or who did what. She didn't regard it as an internal problem, which it was.

She immediately condemned any and everyone with ties to the Horde, even though she supposedly considered everyone in the Kirin Tor to be full citiczens of Dalaran.
Edited by Cbredbeard on 2/7/2013 9:36 AM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
Well, to do what she can to set things right. All she can really do regarding her relations with the Sunreavers is to admit that she imprisoned and exiled innocents and apologize for it.I wouldn't put it past the Sunreavers to say "To hell with your apology," though.


I'm sorry we tried to assassinate your leaders, unleashed an army of angry thugs who beat you and stole your property, then wrongfully imprisioned you without trial for crimes you didn't commit. Twice in a decade.

Yeah, if the Blood Elves DON'T spit in the face of that apology, something is seriously wrong with them.
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90 Human Paladin
8545
02/07/2013 08:09 AMPosted by Lorthuron
Let's avoid blanket statements. Jaina WILL calm down. Weather the Sunreavers/Lor'themar will forgive them is another matter and considering Blood Elves...I doubt it.


Just because she "calms" down doesn't mean everything is going to be peaches in cream. Even if she calms down who's to say she will even be her old self? She might just be a more level headed version of new Jaina.
Edited by Gollard on 2/7/2013 9:48 AM PST
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76 Draenei Monk
3875


And making the biggest victory we had in the war vanish. I can see it happening sadly.


Sure if you consider Purge of Dalaran a victory. >_>


Those of us that aren't bleeding hearts and want to Alliance to fight the dammed war generally do.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910


Sure if you consider Purge of Dalaran a victory. >_>


Those of us that aren't bleeding hearts and want to Alliance to fight the dammed war generally do.


Ha. Considering the cost of the "victory" may have been the Blood Elves leaving the Horde altogether, I can't say it was much of one. A major faction within the Horde leaving it outright would have caused a pretty nasty crack in it's very foundations. Forget Garrosh. If people leave the Horde, it will go belly up and die!

By doing what she did, Jania made the Horde stronger than ever. Thanks alot, Jania Proudmoore, friend to the Horde for life!
Edited by Cbredbeard on 2/7/2013 9:50 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Grimauna
Well, to do what she can to set things right. All she can really do regarding her relations with the Sunreavers is to admit that she imprisoned and exiled innocents and apologize for it.I wouldn't put it past the Sunreavers to say "To hell with your apology," though.


I'm sorry we tried to assassinate your leaders, unleashed an army of angry thugs who beat you and stole your property, then wrongfully imprisioned you without trial for crimes you didn't commit. Twice in a decade.

Yeah, if the Blood Elves DON'T spit in the face of that apology, something is seriously wrong with them.


That's a lot of sensationalism, I'm not sure whether to look upon this with annoyance or flattery given that it desperately attempts to paint a grayer picture on the Alliance's overall stark white canvas.

I guess I'll give you props for it, though you could really cut back on the diatribe and blackwashing because it makes you sound like a complete white knight. Almost a lot like how certain Alliance fans tend to sound.
Edited by Grimtale on 2/7/2013 10:07 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420

And the first thing Jania did after kicking the Sunreavers out was join the Alliance. She didn't launch an investigation to see what happened or who did what. She didn't regard it as an internal problem, which it was.

She immediately condemned any and everyone with ties to the Horde, even though she supposedly considered everyone in the Kirin Tor to be full citiczens of Dalaran.


What did Garrosh do? He had the Sunreavers abuse their position in the Kirin Tor to the Horde's advantage. The Sunreavers are a part of the Kirin Tor. To the Kirin Tor, that it treason. That's what he did. He dragged them into a war most of the Sunreavers didn't want any part of. Therefor anyone who was a Sunreaver or supported them had to be taken into custody for investigation. It was an internal problem that was dealt with immediately. In times of war, you do not have the luxury of taking months to conduct internal investigations on possible subversives. You have to deal with them fast. Because the longer they stay free, the more damage they can do.

Ha. Considering the cost of the "victory" may have been the Blood Elves leaving the Horde altogether, I can't say it was much of one. A major faction within the Horde leaving it outright would have caused a pretty nasty crack in it's very foundations. Forget Garrosh. If people leave the Horde, it will go belly up and die!


Considering that she didn't know Lor'themar and Varian were talking about the possibility of the Blood elves leaving the Horde, she cannot be blamed for those talks failing. She reacted to the situation of betrayal in Dalaran. At the time she was not concerned about the Alliance, but about how some Sunreaver members of the Kirin Tor, which the Sunreavers were a part of, betrayed the Kirin Tor again. That is the situation she had to face. Given the severity of the two incidences, she had to act fast. There was no time to do a long investigation. There very well could have been yet another incident that would have seen the loss of another Alliance city, or Dalaran itself could have come under attack when Garrosh decides to add Dalaran to the Horde.
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
That's a lot of sensationalism, I'm not sure whether to look upon this with annoyance or flattery given that it desperately attempts to paint a grayer picture on the Alliance's overall stark white canvas. I guess I'll give you props for it, though you could really cut back on the diatribe and blackwashing because it makes you sound like a complete white knight. Almost a lot like how certain Alliance fans tend to sound.


I did phrase it rather harshly, but that's pretty much what happened. I left out Jaina wandering the streets and fireballing level 14 belfs, though.

To balance my previous statements - The Sunreavers were party to an attack on a sovereign nation while under the guise and restrictions that bound them to neutrality. They flagrently and blatently violated their hospitality and the laws of Dalaran, and quite rightly were punished.

The part I have a problem is the form the punishment took, which was unleashing a sectarian war and mass imprisonments and assassinations. Kinda like how Alliance like the Forsaken killing Scourge, but not virus bombing their troops while doing it. Which is also wrong.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 02:48 PMPosted by Grimauna
The part I have a problem is the form the punishment took, which was unleashing a sectarian war and mass imprisonments and assassinations.


At the same time it's about time the Alliance took the kid gloves off. After all that's transpired, the Horde shouldn't be surprised to expect such brutality being dealt upon them. Much less the Blood Elves, who have been pretty ruthless in their own right being involved in this war.

The only problem I'm seeing here is that it's the Alliance doing it, and they're not expected to do so because it's meant to be the "nice" faction.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17875
02/07/2013 02:48 PMPosted by Grimauna
To balance my previous statements - The Sunreavers were party to an attack on a sovereign nation while under the guise and restrictions that bound them to neutrality. They flagrently and blatently violated their hospitality and the laws of Dalaran, and quite rightly were punished.


Blizzard has purposely kept it murky whether the Sunreavers did anything.

Thaelen Songweaver, chosen by Rhonin to shield the Theramore gates, blew up the Theramore gates. For that he was kicked out of the Sunreavers. BUT he may not have had anything to do with the Manabomb (although it really seems like he did).

Then Reliquary agents and "Silvermoon Mages" opened a portal to Darnassus where a stealthed player stole the bell without killing anyone. Garrosh's general tells you "This will violate Sunreaver neutrality...MWAHAHAH!"
Edited by Threeslotbag on 2/7/2013 3:05 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10030
02/07/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Threeslotbag
"Silvermoon Mages"


This is still bugging me, why were Silvermoon mages wearing sunreaver tabbards.
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90 Orc Warlock
10370
02/07/2013 03:04 PMPosted by Grimtale
The only problem I'm seeing here is that it's the Alliance doing it, and they're not expected to do so because it's meant to be the "nice" faction.


Fair point. It's what I'd expect Sylvannus to do, not Jaina.

So long as she doesn't try to apologize for it, and so long as the Blood Elves don't accept it if they do, I'm fine with this development. Lets make it a war to the knife.
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90 Human Mage
15925
I left out Jaina wandering the streets and fireballing level 14 belfs, though.


Good, because she didn't do that.

She only attacked those who attacked her first. I know; I was there.
Edited by Gibbons on 2/7/2013 3:15 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 03:15 PMPosted by Grimauna
It's what I'd expect Sylvannus to do, not Jaina.


Well, you got me there. All in all I would have rather seen them use the characters we have now that WOULD pull stunts like this rather than completely derail another character into doing so.

Genn or Tyrande would have fit perfectly, not in Dalaran but a situation very similar to it.
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