Open Libram LXIV: Tales of the Bold

90 Human Paladin
9970
01/18/2013 05:16 PMPosted by Vladja
How viable do you think it would be to queue heals as ret with battle healer?


probably depends on how well geared and competent the tank is.

This. If you know a decent tank (or find one and then do more runs), it works great. It's sketchy for queuing solo, though.

This may not be a useful short-term solution, but you could also go prot and tank in DPS gear. Damage is pretty great that way, and survival is still no problem.
100 Draenei Paladin
13390
I just made a macro for my Disc Priest guildmate/friend that consists of

"/w [name] cancelaura Spirit Shell"

and I'm going to spam it on farm content and see how mad he gets
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9540
Just ran a few heroics and an LFR. (completely random.) works out great as long as you never let the tank get ahead of you... And nobody asks questions. <_<

The dungeons go by crazy fast and in the LFR I did I was simultaneously 3rd on heals and top 10 on dps.

I'd kind of love to see them give ret some modified version of beacon of light and just have us go full on support.
Edited by Darthelm on 1/18/2013 6:19 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
9935
01/18/2013 05:42 PMPosted by Ravicana


probably depends on how well geared and competent the tank is.

This. If you know a decent tank (or find one and then do more runs), it works great. It's sketchy for queuing solo, though.

This may not be a useful short-term solution, but you could also go prot and tank in DPS gear. Damage is pretty great that way, and survival is still no problem.


It's not really a problem except for certain pulls. The casting mobs before the first boss in MSP need to be focused down. You can stun them yourself and interrupt the casts.

I've yet to come across a tank that wasn't healable as ret, but I have had people complain about it, usually noob dps. Give it a shot. I run with Glyph of FoL, battle healer, and mass exo. Holy prism also tends to work the best, so does DP. Damage suffers a decent amount, probably 60-80% of normal. That all depends on the tank and pull though.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
Doing a daily random for valor as the tank, full ret gear with a shield from the AH and HH agility sword I barely even notice the presence of a healer. I zone in and I start pulling, even though when I zone in all four of the others still read as offline, without even a very good talent setup for tanking because I just like selfless healer and prism. I've had healers get pissy and leave and because I'm not actually watching the group, don't even notice it.

I've had a number of healers who spend most of their time dpsing, and lot of druids who have just up and switched to boomkin. We've had guild we-need-valor runs as ret-enhance-fury-destro-brewmaster with me running battle healer and the enhance using his MW for heals once in a while and haven't ever had issues.
Edited by Cayse on 1/18/2013 6:34 PM PST
100 Draenei Paladin
18355
01/18/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Ravicana
But also (depending on the writer), arcane magic is inherently addictive and corrupting.


01/18/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Ravicana
It also seems to have been downplayed in more recent years.


Very downplayed as this view on arcane magic is almost exclusively kept outside of the in game lore, except for something specific like say Blood/High Elves and to an extent Night Elves. Elves, Elves, Elves.

We know they're magic crack heads, a lot of what defines them as a culture revolves around this. But it's presented in away as to seem a problem exclusive to their race and culture.

Magical practices for the other races haven't really been painted as a addictive or corruptive in game, magical powers are painted as extensions of the character and apart of what they are rather then a substance they are addicted too.

Sort of like the Light for Light users, although if we examine how the Broken of the Draenei handled being cut off from the Light it was quite similar to addiction withdrawals.

But then things considered part of your being being removed and addictions being cut off do generate similar responses I suppose.

You're right though, the dangers of Arcane magic are very much apart of why Mages were distrusted in early Warcraft lore. The other nations of the Alliance of Lordaeron were wary of Dalaran, Deathwing preyed on this very mistrust when he was trying to install himself as Lord of Alterac as Lord Prestor.

My point I guess was that it's not represented very well in game, just shown as "Weeee magic is cool!" mostly.

Blizzard has major issues with this, so much of the actual substance of WoW isn't expressed through the medium we're actually playing and participating in.

Just ran a few heroics and an LFR. (completely random.) works out great as long as you never let the tank get ahead of you... And nobody asks questions. <_<


I just keep waiting for Battle Healer to get nuked from orbit, I'm surprised a way to really abuse it hasn't happened yet.

01/18/2013 06:33 PMPosted by Cayse
We've had guild we-need-valor runs as ret-enhance-fury-destro-brewmaster with me running battle healer and the enhance using his MW for heals once in a while and haven't ever had issues.


That's just a testament to how pathetic five mans are more then anything, which is sad because the current five mans are fun.

But yeah, just go in there with a group full of hybrid DPS and forget the Tank and Healer altogether.

Man I really need to get into Challenge Modes somehow.
Edited by Cadenbrie on 1/18/2013 6:38 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
Just ran a few heroics and an LFR. (completely random.) works out great as long as you never let the tank get ahead of you... And nobody asks questions. <_<


I just keep waiting for Battle Healer to get nuked from orbit, I'm surprised a way to really abuse it hasn't happened yet.


Use it on Garalon and seal dance. Any time you're going to switch to a leg, go SoI and watch the hilarious numbers. It's nearly as funny as fol glyphed-selfless healer/3HP wog/2HP wog on Tsulong.

I actually predicted a couple of times during beta that the glyph wouldn't go live or would get nerfed pretty fast, but ret simply has had zero time in the spotlight due to the other bugged/broken classes that it's just gone unnoticed. Either that or Blizzard thinks it's fine that I can sit on top of the LFR damage and out-heal some actual healers on Tsulong, or basically all prot paladins can completely ignore the presence of a healer in 5-mans because they designed the spec to use SoI and the glyph is just an obvious move.

That's just a testament to how pathetic five mans are more then anything, which is sad because the current five mans are fun.

But yeah, just go in there with a group full of hybrid DPS and forget the Tank and Healer altogether.


It is. Honestly, if it would let me queue alone and get the valor I think only a couple would be any kind of problem or take any actual thought to just blow through alone. I really wish it would let me do scenarios alone so I could get achievements. >.>
Edited by Cayse on 1/18/2013 6:47 PM PST
100 Draenei Paladin
18355
01/18/2013 06:42 PMPosted by Cayse
It's nearly as funny as fol glyphed-selfless healer/3HP wog/2HP wog on Tsulong.


That will be fun if my guild ever gets there on Normal.

01/18/2013 06:42 PMPosted by Cayse
that it's just gone unnoticed.


I have to think that this is the reason and I'm just waiting for Blizzard to wake up too it. But since it's not really anything that makes other players rabble about it maybe it'll fly under the radar a bit longer.

01/18/2013 06:42 PMPosted by Cayse
I really wish it would let me do scenarios alone so I could get achievements. >.>


Me too.

You don't need any other players to do a Scenario, at all. Pures might have some trouble with them but eh, with their other utility I'm sure they could get through it too if they were smart.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
01/18/2013 06:59 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
It's nearly as funny as fol glyphed-selfless healer/3HP wog/2HP wog on Tsulong.


That will be fun if my guild ever gets there on Normal.


It really is. Did 20k HPS the other night while still downing my adds. Which is kinda funny since, on at least one pull, I was doing better on Tsulong than the actual HPally we had - or so my RL said today.
90 Human Paladin
9970
My point I guess was that it's not represented very well in game, just shown as "Weeee magic is cool!" mostly.

Blizzard has major issues with this, so much of the actual substance of WoW isn't expressed through the medium we're actually playing and participating in.

Yeah, it's a bit of a shame really. When characters can have differences of opinion and the players can't obviously see that one of them is objectively wrong, that makes a much more immersive setting IMO.
That's just a testament to how pathetic five mans are more then anything, which is sad because the current five mans are fun.

But yeah, just go in there with a group full of hybrid DPS and forget the Tank and Healer altogether.

One the one hand, I REALLY enjoy ret-healing dungeons (and now I'm leveling a shaman to enhance-heal dungeons, too). On the other hand I do miss nontrivial dungeons. You could say that's what challenge modes are for, but I've yet to get around to doing any, and I think there's a lot of room for harder non-CM dungeons without them being onerous.

But why would you forego a tank?? Somebody's gotta take damage, might as well be the guy with Vengeance! Tank DPS isn't exactly low :p
01/18/2013 07:05 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
It really is. Did 20k HPS the other night while still downing my adds. Which is kinda funny since, on at least one pull, I was doing better on Tsulong than the actual HPally we had - or so my RL said today.

I've occasionally gotten called out in LFR for being the 5th-6th healer on Tsulong. It's like, guys... I'm here as DPS. Yell at the two actual healers that are below me.
Edited by Ravicana on 1/18/2013 7:10 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
I wish people in my guild would want to go back into challenge modes. We did one early, with people who were not at all prepared and a couple who were under the normalized ilvl and quite obviously did really bad and nobody has wanted to try them again.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
My RL was trying to push CMs the other night in some guild heroics, and the tank and healer we had were practically pissing themselves over "we haz bad comp." I pointed out my insane burst, the Ele Sham's amazing AoE, and the fact that we actually had Hero - and that I also knew a guy with 9/9 gold and a record that did it all with no raid gear and with a worse comp than we had. Tank kept saying "but cms iz hard" when he's geared enough and skilled enough to where the healre - an hPally - was Denouncing stuff for fun.

But they're all about the heroic raiding "cuz gear." >_>
90 Human Paladin
9970
Raid gear lasts for a tier. Transmog gear is forever.
90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
I don't even care about the transmo gear; looks terrible on a Dwarf. I mostly just want the 'chieves and the sheer challenge. Gear - transmog or otherwise - is a fringe benefit of the game to me.
100 Draenei Paladin
18355
01/18/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Ravicana
When characters can have differences of opinion and the players can't obviously see that one of them is objectively wrong, that makes a much more immersive setting IMO.


What a wonderful World.............of Warcraft that would be.

01/18/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Ravicana
and I think there's a lot of room for harder non-CM dungeons without them being onerous.


There is but we shall never have them again because when someone says "I think dungeons are too easy....." Blizzard will just say "CHALLENGE MODES DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! LA LA LA LA LA!"

So yeah, I lost hope on that score. I like Challenge Modes, well the concept as I haven't been able to actually try them, but that's not reason for Dungeons to be glorified......well I don't know, quest zones?

I loved Cata launch dungeons, suicide pulls on five man trash by God, but that was one extreme. Mists dungeons are another, there needs to be something closer to the middle.

01/18/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Ravicana
But why would you forego a tank?? Somebody's gotta take damage, might as well be the guy with Vengeance! Tank DPS isn't exactly low :p


Meh barring big add pulls their DPS isn't impressive anymore in my experience, another DPS would easily match them. As for taking damage that wouldn't be any trouble to a group of Hybrids, or a sturdy hybrid could just throw on something like RF and have at it.

And because of spite, that too.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
Decided to start doing arenas while playing http://gobsmagic.ytmnd.com/. Lets hope it improves my performance.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
01/18/2013 07:40 PMPosted by Aglaea
Decided to start doing arenas while playing http://gobsmagic.ytmnd.com/. Lets hope it improves my performance.


Yeah, because the guy with the 2200 rated armor's really going to want to play this season with lesser rated noobs, Michael. COME ON!

(Not a dig at you Aglaea. Couldn't help the reference. <3)
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
Yeah, because the guy with the 2200 rated armor's really going to want to play this season with lesser rated noobs, Michael. COME ON!

(Not a dig at you Aglaea. Couldn't help the reference. <3)


RETURN FROM WHENCE YOU CAME
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9540
Lol, I just ret healed an LFR vaults where, on WotE, we wiped once due to bad tanks getting hit by combos, and in the process someone complained about and kicked 2 actual healers that were doing less than I was. XD
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