Huge disc changes in the ptr build

90 Night Elf Druid
2245
01/16/2013 02:43 PMPosted by Taymage
None of them ever once asked for the ludicrous buffs Blizzard gave them in response to the fairly indisputable fact that they were bad at the beginning of this expansion.


And now if the MMO Champ notes are correct disc priest will be even worse than they were @ the beginning of MOP.

Just a quick guess but looks like a 35%+ nerf to throughput of disc priest. The worst part is this little tidbit from Ghostcrawler "the fact that absorbs are often more beneficial than heals" means that even when Disc priest will be the lowest on healing meters they wont be fixed.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/16/2013 02:53 PMPosted by Manaddiction
Priest sat there quietly once it received it's overbuffs and didn't fight for mechanical changes, all they wanted was to look good on meters.
This is demonstrably false. You probably know it's demonstrably false, and are just trolling. Still, on the off-chance someone would otherwise take your word for it, I feel compelled to point out that you are lying.


Of course he knows it's false. There was more than one thread where essentially all of the priests that post here were facepalming about how stupid, clunky, and non-responsive the over-buffs were. Those priests repeatedly discussed how it didn't address the mechanical changes they asked for.

But you know, it's more fun to revise history and say "I told you so".
Edited by Taymage on 1/16/2013 2:58 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Death Knight
8255
Actually the rapture change is not as huge as it may seem. I'm a moron for not seeing this.

It will effect you less if you started off with less spirit in the first place. Like if you sat at sub 9150 spirit (I as a shaman do this, don't know about disc), you will see the changes as a BUFF.

Shield costs 18300 mana at 90. Let's say you had just enough spirit to cover this cost (and exclude the temporary spirit buffs like mana tide etc), or 9150.

With the next patch, shield costs you only 9150 mana, but you also only get that much back meaning.... its no different than it is now.

Of course the higher spirit you are right now (I don't know what normal spirit is for a discipline priest), the more it will feel like a nerf. But if you are sitting at 9000 or so spirit right now, come patch day it will be no different for you.

Plus it now lets you bubble more since shield is cheaper in general which is exactly what GC said he wanted.

I can't figure out how big of a nerf the DA changes are.


Talking about the non important change and calling it okay. Check!

Not understanding the important change. Check!

Trolling everyone in this thread while pretending to be intelligent. Check!
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
01/16/2013 02:49 PMPosted by Sensations
It's me laughing @ how the disc community acted.


How stupid are you to believe that a small vocal group of people on the forums equals an entire community?

Anyway, these changes are entirely overkill. The developers lack the intelligence to design the spec, so they're just going to destroy it instead. Derp derp overpowered derp derp useless spec, it can never be balanced when the Devs are simply throwing darts at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
15810
Actually the rapture change is not as huge as it may seem. I'm a moron for not seeing this.

It will effect you less if you started off with less spirit in the first place. Like if you sat at sub 9150 spirit (I as a shaman do this, don't know about disc), you will see the changes as a BUFF.

Shield costs 18300 mana at 90. Let's say you had just enough spirit to cover this cost (and exclude the temporary spirit buffs like mana tide etc), or 9150.

With the next patch, shield costs you only 9150 mana, but you also only get that much back meaning.... its no different than it is now.

Of course the higher spirit you are right now (I don't know what normal spirit is for a discipline priest), the more it will feel like a nerf. But if you are sitting at 9000 or so spirit right now, come patch day it will be no different for you.

Plus it now lets you bubble more since shield is cheaper in general which is exactly what GC said he wanted.

I can't figure out how big of a nerf the DA changes are.


Talking about the non important change and calling it okay. Check!

Not understanding the important change. Check!

Trolling everyone in this thread while pretending to be intelligent. Check!


You sound like you are fuming, you should take a deep breath there pal
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/16/2013 02:56 PMPosted by Sensations
I'm sorry, are you saying you can't quote something and twist the words in your response?


I'll repeat exactly what I said, at least with respect to the quote. I understand my sentence saying "banned from discussing on the forums" was hyperbole. That's fair.

But there is nothing of yours being "twisted" in this right here, where I quote you:

this is completely false: "Priest sat there quietly once it received it's overbuffs and didn't fight for mechanical changes, all they wanted was to look good on meters" - although it does fit the narrative you guys like to push.
Edited by Taymage on 1/16/2013 3:04 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
14175
The rapture nerf is needed, although I think they may have taken the hammer to it a little too much although will wait to see how it performs on the PTR.

The DA change in regards to PoH seems completely ridiculous, I can completely understand tweaking it and lowering it but to completely remove it is just dumb. I'm not happy at all with mastery not effecting spirit shell, considering our mastery is supposed to effect our absorbs. Really wish they would have just upped the cooldown on spirit shell, make it two minutes (or even 2 1/2 minutes) - make you have to think more about when to use it but still allow mastery to apply to it.

With the changes to Solace and what I believe is the removal of Holy Fire could they possibly give us some more glyph choices? Glyph choices as it stands right now for disc is pretty lackluster - remove holy fire and you pretty much kill off a few more of the choices.
Reply Quote
100 Pandaren Priest
12180
Also, the PW:S change is completely fine and I welcome it. It stops the absurd regen scaling we were dealing with, makes PW:S a more viable option again, and will help create other options for Disc healing. That being said, if PoH is completely removed from DA (barring crits) we're still going to have a difficult time. It should be noted that what GC said was going to happen (penance buff or something of the sort) hasn't come along, and these changes haven't been stated in any patch notes, so I'd say just play wait and see for a bit.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
17105
This change was 100% required and anyone who didn't see this coming for the last few months is delusional. Disc is around 20% stronger than every other healer according to aggregates of raid parses and has more mana longevity than every other healer. These stats are with the vast majority of guilds still working on progression content; as people get into farm mode and more parses are coming from bosses that are on farm, Disc is going to become more and more ridiculously ahead as absorbs continue to scale with gear and effectively snipe more output from every other healer. Frankly, they should hotfix these changes in.

They just flat out dropped the ball and overbuffed Disc at the start of the expansion because of the amount of excessive whining from priests over how they performed at very low gear levels. The reality is, had they left it alone and people had been able to wait until they were at a reasonable basic gear level before crying bloody murder, Disc probably would have been been properly balanced.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/16/2013 02:59 PMPosted by Sensations
Does sample size mean nothing to you?


Perhaps then, it would behoove you next time to make yourself more clear. You are, after all, posting on the healing forums where a bunch of disc priests with whom you are acquainted also post, and in fact posted extensively about this very issue.

So when you say "Priest sat there quietly once it received it's overbuffs and didn't fight for mechanical changes, all they wanted was to look good on meters", next time you might want to make it clear who you are talking about, if not the priests who post on this forum.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Shaman
HC
18005
I'm sorry, are you saying you can't quote something and twist the words in your response?


I'll repeat exactly what I said, at least with respect to the quote. I understand my sentence say "banned from discussing on the forums" was hyperbole. That's fair.

But there is nothing of yours being "twisted" in this right here, where I quote you:

this is completely false: "Priest sat there quietly once it received it's overbuffs and didn't fight for mechanical changes, all they wanted was to look good on meters" - although it does fit the narrative you guys like to push.


Let me make this clear.

Every other thread on the healing forum was disc priest - yes.
Once disc received the overbuffs only 1-2 threads remained discussing how overbuffed it was - yes.

That's all my post says, sure I could've been more clear but majority of the people on these healing forums who are regulars are pretty smart so I didn't think I needed to word it as such so I will apologize for that. There is no hidden agenda or narrative that we like to push, but considering the amount of threads before and after with a simple numbers overbuff just shows not only the disc community but the healing community standing for half-worked changes.
Edited by Sensations on 1/16/2013 3:06 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
01/16/2013 03:01 PMPosted by Sensations
Considering it's implied as forum community, I expected more from you. Maybe I can elaborate on every one of my sentences for the people who have a harder time ;s.


It wasn't even a lot of the "community" though, it was maybe 10 Priests who are too stupid to understand their class complaining loudly enough to get noticed.

I'm sorry though, it's hard to read you on this subject. You're just so jovial about it, which is sad to see since it's not good for healer balance. If DA is entirely removed from non-crit PoH, the spec is dead.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
12435
01/16/2013 02:56 PMPosted by Gardiff
Of course the higher spirit you are right now (I don't know what normal spirit is for a discipline priest), the more it will feel like a nerf. But if you are sitting at 9000 or so spirit right now, come patch day it will be no different for you.


The ICD remains at 12s. It's definitely a nerf.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Shaman
HC
18005
I'm sorry though, it's hard to read you on this subject. You're just so jovial about it, which is sad to see since it's not good for healer balance. If DA is entirely removed from non-crit PoH, the spec is dead.


I can be an a'hole, yes.

Honestly it's pretty obvious it's either a Datamining error or just a test, considering just last week GC said they're going to try "reducing" the benefit DA gets from PoH and not remove. :p
Reply Quote
100 Pandaren Priest
12180
This change was 100% required and anyone who didn't see this coming for the last few months is delusional. Disc is around 20% stronger than every other healer according to aggregates of raid parses and has more mana longevity than every other healer. These stats are with the vast majority of guilds still working on progression content; as people get into farm mode and more parses are coming from bosses that are on farm, Disc is going to become more and more ridiculously ahead as absorbs continue to scale with gear and effectively snipe more output from every other healer. Frankly, they should hotfix these changes in.

They just flat out dropped the ball and overbuffed Disc at the start of the expansion because of the amount of excessive whining from priests over how they performed at very low gear levels. The reality is, had they left it alone and people had been able to wait until they were at a reasonable basic gear level before crying bloody murder, Disc probably would have been been properly balanced.

The issue here is that they are nerfing our regen, they're nerfing spirit shell (which should net a ~15% healing reduction) and they're now hitting us with another nerf that will literally be in the neighborhood of 20-30% healing reduction. Now, by your own (compeltely accurate) numbers, this nerf is overkill, and that's all I and a few others here are saying. I think DA being brought back down to 30% instead of 50% would have been a fine change. Combined with SS no longer interacting with mastery, it would have netted us a nerf of around ~20%, exactly what you indicate we need.

Edit: to be clear though, I'm certain this is not going to stick. I think the PW:S/Rapture change is intended (and necessary, our regen was ridiculous,) but the PoH change is not.
Edited by Ezekiah on 1/16/2013 3:09 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
01/16/2013 03:07 PMPosted by Sensations
Honestly it's pretty obvious it's either a Datamining error or just a test, considering just last week GC said they're going to try "reducing" the benefit DA gets from PoH and not remove. :p


I hope to god you're right and it's just a test or datamine error. I've read all the nerfs this coming in 5.2 and accepted them wholeheartedly, but the entire removal of DA from PoH would be too much for my brain to handle. I'm stressed out just thinking about it.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
16390
Really stressing over these changes. Praying that its a data mined error and false info.

Nerfed Spirit shell, da, no da on POH, rapture...I mean jesus christ...

This would be worse than MOP launch and I'll be forced into going holy again. (Which is ALSO a subpar spec!)
Edited by Irial on 1/16/2013 3:18 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
15810
It's not a nerf in the sense of a net mana gain.

But if you just look at the mana gain from rapture and call it that without taking into the idea of the cost of power word shield (which is silly) then YES its a 50% nerf.

But, you spent 18300 mana in the first place. Now, you are spending only 9150.

Even at a 12 second ICD, this would still hold true.

Just looking at your gear, for instance, let's say you sit at 12000 spirit right now.

Your net mana gain per rapture is 5700

Post-patch, that net mana gain is 2850.

Considering that there are usually luls in damage at some point in a fight and not everyone is perfect, let's say you only get 4 raptures per minute (as opposed to 5).

So your net mana gain per minute is 22800 / minute pre-patch and 11400 post-patch. In a standard 7 minute encounter that means you will be looking at an effective 80000 mana.

I don't think anyone will aruge 2 concentration pots will make or break an encounter (plus everyone knew this nerf was going to happen based on what GC stated, so this isn't exactly a huge one)... so that is what you are personally looking at come patch day.

If you sit at 9150 spirit, there will be no difference. Below 9150, it will be a buff.

We KNEW rapture was going to be nerfed and the way they did this lets you bubble more, while being just a slight nerf (in BiS gear right now, that is the equivalent of about 2 concentration pots)
Edited by Gardiff on 1/16/2013 3:18 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]