Huge disc changes in the ptr build

90 Pandaren Shaman
12265
01/22/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Taymage
that not everyone is overgearing normal mode content yet.


Except we aren't necessarily strictly talking about normal mode content. At least I'm not, that is.

My Heroic Blade Lord kill last week:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mkiy4en2we4br0fj/sum/healingDone/?s=1608&e=1997


Heroic Wind Lord:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/mkiy4en2we4br0fj/sum/healingDone/?s=14682&e=15100


Heroic Stone Guard:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/oxjo7qy9dws6kvu0/sum/healingDone/?s=3975&e=4252


Heroic Feng:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/oxjo7qy9dws6kvu0/sum/healingDone/?s=4549&e=4856


Heroic Spirit Kings:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/oxjo7qy9dws6kvu0/sum/healingDone/?s=6597&e=7154


Heroic Elegon: (yayaya damage modifier)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/oxjo7qy9dws6kvu0/sum/healingDone/?s=7982&e=8410


Heroic Will:
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/oxjo7qy9dws6kvu0/sum/healingDone/?s=13209&e=13865
Granted, a little closer, but as it was our first kill positioning was kind of... terrible. I'm pretty sure PoH was a !@#$%.
Edited by Pebble on 1/22/2013 2:55 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I dunno, I've noticed my two co-healers catching up to me on 3 heal fights, and the Paladin keeping up on 2 heal fights. This may mean that I'm bad, but the extra mileage I have over them appears to be almost completely Spirit Shell.

It may also be because I focus on smiting outside of heavy raid damage, and trust the Druid to heal up what needs healing when we're 3 healing.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13225
01/22/2013 02:51 PMPosted by Pebble
Granted, a little closer, but as it was our first kill positioning was kind of... terrible. I'm pretty sure PoH was a !@#$%.

Yeah, Will is a !@#$% as a priest, plus the high and spiky 2-tank damage caters to pally/shaman. I always do better on normal Will than anything else. Sometimes I even win, if I play like an ^-*-hole.
Edited by Kaels on 1/22/2013 3:00 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
01/22/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Taymage
You guys are both running with crews that are working on heroic content, are wearing heroic gear, and have dps blowing up normal modes with heroic gear. It's not particularly surprising that there is less damage going out that can be more easily covered by a well-geared disc priest.


But this has been going on since the PoH buffs, and I haven't always had this much gear. I'm talking about like 485 ilvl on Heroic progression, I was annihilating my co-healers. I think our first Heroic Elegon kill was something like Me:~90k, Rdruid: ~40k. The disparity has widened as gear increases and is more noticeable on the Normal Modes we still do, yes, but the disparity has always been there.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
Oh I know there is a disparity, I'm not so crazy as to be claiming it is not there. I don't mean that. Like I said, I'm mostly fine with these nerfs.

Edit:

I dunno, I've noticed my two co-healers catching up to me on 3 heal fights, and the Paladin keeping up on 2 heal fights. This may mean that I'm bad, but the extra mileage I have over them appears to be almost completely Spirit Shell.

It may also be because I focus on smiting outside of heavy raid damage, and trust the Druid to heal up what needs healing when we're 3 healing.


This is likely the better way of playing when you are three healing, given you might need the extra dps. Unless of course another one of the three healers is in Chastise I suppose. :)
Edited by Taymage on 1/22/2013 3:10 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
Yeah, after my initial panic response, I'm okay with the nerfs too. I've seen a couple of the PTR bosses and Disc Priests seem to be on par, if not still ahead on a few fights.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13225
01/22/2013 03:10 PMPosted by Qùess
Yeah, after my initial panic response, I'm okay with the nerfs too. I've seen a couple of the PTR bosses and Disc Priests seem to be on par, if not still ahead on a few fights.

Really? Haven't been on there to test myself, but I saw a few early streams with disc priests and they weren't looking that good. Maybe it was just needing to adjust.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/22/2013 03:16 PMPosted by Kaels
Yeah, after my initial panic response, I'm okay with the nerfs too. I've seen a couple of the PTR bosses and Disc Priests seem to be on par, if not still ahead on a few fights.

Really? Haven't been on there to test myself, but I saw a few early streams with disc priests and they weren't looking that good. Maybe it was just needing to adjust.


It's probably true. If they were attempting the same old rely on spirit shell, DA rolling thing, it might not work out well for them.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
01/22/2013 03:16 PMPosted by Kaels
Maybe it was just needing to adjust.


Yeah, I may have seen some later pulls than you and they figured the fight out a bit. Disc only gets better once you know the fight well.

They weren't "winning" the meters by any means. It seemed like the healers were within a much more even spread though than you'd usually see with a Disc Priest present.
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100 Troll Priest
12660
Disc was bad because it was the beginning of an expansion, disc scaled perfectly fine and would've been more than fine(World first guilds were bringing it before the overbuffs). People couldn't wait and cried wolf, now the bed is made. Priest sat there quietly once it received it's overbuffs and didn't fight for mechanical changes, all they wanted was to look good on meters.

100% for sure I'd rather have it be this way than wait a year and a half for the gear to become available that makes you competitive. Been there, done that, thanks, but no thanks.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13225
01/22/2013 03:20 PMPosted by Qùess
They weren't "winning" the meters by any means. It seemed like the healers were within a much more even spread though than you'd usually see with a Disc Priest present.

Well, I'd actually be a little concerned about that. They're still just testing normals now, right? I'd expect that in a heroic progression guild doing normals together, a disc priest should "win" the meters (by something on the order of a few percent, obviously, not doubling the next healer's output).

If they can't, heroics may be a bloodbath.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
Um, Rasul, if only 55% of your Disc Priest's DPS was coming from Atonement...uh...what else was he/she/it doing?

Also, if your Disc Priest is doing nothing but a DPS rotation, what exactly do you expect? Obviously their healing wasn't really needed. I'm curious, what combo of dogs did you get?


If you click the link below and go to the "Healing by Spell" tab you can see his healing distribution.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/b8vsrk9q88cl91py/details/14/?s=0&e=296

The additional healings are from DA (21%), and occasional PW:S, PoM & Cascade. He did sustained 72k hps and 67k dps. Not a bad deal for the amount of mana spent. Guardian is probably the least OP of the six fights.

We had Jasper, Amethyst and Cobat.
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100 Tauren Shaman
HC
18410
01/22/2013 03:25 PMPosted by Ticktacktick
Disc was bad because it was the beginning of an expansion, disc scaled perfectly fine and would've been more than fine(World first guilds were bringing it before the overbuffs). People couldn't wait and cried wolf, now the bed is made. Priest sat there quietly once it received it's overbuffs and didn't fight for mechanical changes, all they wanted was to look good on meters.

100% for sure I'd rather have it be this way than wait a year and a half for the gear to become available that makes you competitive. Been there, done that, thanks, but no thanks.


More like a couple months, but ok.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Um, Rasul, if only 55% of your Disc Priest's DPS was coming from Atonement...uh...what else was he/she/it doing?

Also, if your Disc Priest is doing nothing but a DPS rotation, what exactly do you expect? Obviously their healing wasn't really needed. I'm curious, what combo of dogs did you get?


If you click the link below and go to the "Healing by Spell" tab you can see his healing distribution.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/b8vsrk9q88cl91py/details/14/?s=0&e=296

The additional healings are from DA (21%), and occasional PW:S, PoM & Cascade. He did sustained 72k hps and 67k dps. Not a bad deal for the amount of mana spent. Guardian is probably the least OP of the six fights.

We had Jasper, Amethyst and Cobat.


No, that's...you didn't answer my question. You said only 55% of your Healer's DPS came from Atonement. I want to know what else they were doing, if that's the case.

Also, Jasper, Amethyst and Cobalt are like, the easiest ones. The only damage you take is avoidable.

Edited to Add: Also, your Priest is very obviously gearing for a pure atonement build. They're reforging and gearing away from Mastery, and picking up as much Haste and Crit as they can.
Edited by Tiriél on 1/22/2013 5:47 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
6900
Our disc priest did 72k effective HPS on HM Guardian, and 55% was from Atonement.


There you go Tiriel.
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90 Human Paladin
15450


If you click the link below and go to the "Healing by Spell" tab you can see his healing distribution.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/b8vsrk9q88cl91py/details/14/?s=0&e=296

The additional healings are from DA (21%), and occasional PW:S, PoM & Cascade. He did sustained 72k hps and 67k dps. Not a bad deal for the amount of mana spent. Guardian is probably the least OP of the six fights.

We had Jasper, Amethyst and Cobat.


No, that's...you didn't answer my question. You said only 55% of your Healer's DPS came from Atonement. I want to know what else they were doing, if that's the case.

Also, Jasper, Amethyst and Cobalt are like, the easiest ones. The only damage you take is avoidable.

Edited to Add: Also, your Priest is very obviously gearing for a pure atonement build. They're reforging and gearing away from Mastery, and picking up as much Haste and Crit as they can.


Here is a log of a holy paladin & resto shaman two healing HM Guardian (Jasper, Amethyst & Jade).

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6qggpzqgj1ay50sd/sum/healingDone/?s=4072&e=4346

As you can see the hps is not much difference. Atonement would have been more than sufficient even for this fight, and still do 67k dps.

You can also bet that both me and Bohai were spending more mana to do the same amount of healing.
Edited by Rasul on 1/22/2013 9:54 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Here is a log of a holy paladin & resto shaman two healing HM Guardian (Jasper, Amethyst & Jade).

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6qggpzqgj1ay50sd/sum/healingDone/?s=4072&e=4346

As you can see the hps is not much difference. Atonement would have been more than sufficient even for this fight, and still do 67k dps.

You can also bet that both me and Bohai were spending more mana to do the same amount of healing.


Yes, but remember that Atonement is only healing one person at a time. It's also uncontrollable. I do not personally see Atonement as being a viable "raid healing" mechanic when you have Jade up. There's simply too much AOE going out unless you get lucky and have several Jade phases. And even then, since they won't be back to back, you've got two other phases where Jade is doing full damage in addition to whatever avoidable damage your DPS are taking (bombs, pools, chains), the damage from the crystals (which can range from negligible to intense if they picked the wrong one, or if it changed quickly), and the intense damage the tanks will be taking at points.

Edited to Add: What I'm trying to say is that what is "viable" for your group is not necessarily viable for another group. I could not replicate that log. My tanks would die.
Edited by Tiriél on 1/22/2013 10:08 PM PST
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100 Human Priest
18300


No, that's...you didn't answer my question. You said only 55% of your Healer's DPS came from Atonement. I want to know what else they were doing, if that's the case.

Also, Jasper, Amethyst and Cobalt are like, the easiest ones. The only damage you take is avoidable.

Edited to Add: Also, your Priest is very obviously gearing for a pure atonement build. They're reforging and gearing away from Mastery, and picking up as much Haste and Crit as they can.


Here is a log of a holy paladin & resto shaman two healing HM Guardian (Jasper, Amethyst & Jade).

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6qggpzqgj1ay50sd/sum/healingDone/?s=4072&e=4346

As you can see the hps is not much difference. Atonement would have been more than sufficient even for this fight, and still do 67k dps.

You can also bet that both me and Bohai were spending more mana to do the same amount of healing.

I'm picking and choosing from these quotes, but this is in agreement with my stance on taking out the reduced mana cost from evangelism. But if the team is looking at pvp damage, I don't see it being seriously considered. But this is what I was getting at with: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7592203147?page=3#59
I know I'm going against general opinion with this one.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/22/2013 11:53 PMPosted by Twistedmind
I know I'm going against general opinion with this one.


It's never stopped you before. :-P
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