Huge disc changes in the ptr build

90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Here are the specifics from the official patch notes.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/249080-patch-52-ptr-and-patch-notes-january-16/

-"Divine Aegis is no longer guaranteed when Prayer of Healing is cast. The effect now procs when the spell crits." - Divine Aegis change is INTENDED
-13% buff to Flash Heal
-20% buff to Penance
-PW:S mana cost is only being reduced by 25% not 50%
-Rapture is being reduced to 150% not 100%.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Priest
9485
01/16/2013 08:37 PMPosted by Tiberria
-13% buff to Flash Heal


This is not true, Flash Heal is unchanged.

The base amount before the specialization bonus will now do 70% of its current live value. The 43% multiplier simply brings it back to 100% (70 * 1.43 = 100).
Reply Quote
90 Troll Priest
12105
DA is has to be a misprint. It conflicts with GC's comments and not to mention the whole devaluing of mastery stat for disc and destroying the spec's AoE healing potential.

Rapture is a hard nerf, but one we will manage... well, hopefully manage depending on how the rest of the nerfs lay out during PTR. Everything isn't in the notes yet and who knows how things will look when the final tally hits live.

On an off-topic note, toxic thread. Far too much finger pointing, laughing, and arguing... and oddly enough most of it wasn't even about the nerfs, just jackasses being jackasses for the sake of being jackasses. Threads like this are why new people don't like to post in the WoW forums.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10165
On an off-topic note, toxic thread. Far too much finger pointing, laughing, and arguing... and oddly enough most of it wasn't even about the nerfs, just jackasses being jackasses for the sake of being jackasses. Threads like this are why new people don't like to post in the WoW forums.


This. Overgeneralized, assuming comments aren't productive in the least. Flame wars serve no purpose; let's discuss the facts, not I-said-but-this-happened-and blah blah blah.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
4120
I'm really worried bout disc in pvp. Currently disc priests have to struggle so much not just to survive, but to have mana so the possibility of having some decent survivability is even possible! The nerf to rapture, while kinda needed for pve will cripple Disc in pvp even more. I still think Blizz kinda gave up on disc priests this xpac, It just seems to me that Disc mechanics need a restart of some sort, for pve we NEED more aoe spells worth using, as for pvp......well let me just say that considering disc is "intended" to be an offensive healing spec, I shouldn't feel that speccing shadow and off-healing would produce better results AND give me much more mana regen than my healing spec. There is still the rare chance that I'm just playing disc wrong, but seeing "LF healer for RBG, no disc priests pls" being spammed so much I don't think I am :(
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
13730
lol dat rapture nerf

say goodbye to pvp disc priests forever

also, it would be better if they just revert the changes they made to DA and PoH back then, not completely remove the DA proc from PoH. they wanted disc priests to focus on absorbs before the expansion even came out then they're gonna remove that DA proc from disc's only effective AoE heal because of their own stupid band-aid solution to disc being weak at the beginning of xpac? doesn't make sense.

you know what time it is? time to stack that crit.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
7315
01/16/2013 02:57 PMPosted by Omertas
The worst part is this little tidbit from Ghostcrawler "the fact that absorbs are often more beneficial than heals" means that even when Disc priest will be the lowest on healing meters they wont be fixed.


This one statement alone pretty much heralds the demise of disc as a spec. Unless someone changes their minds or GC realizes just how ignorant and stupid such a statement is the spec is done.
Edited by Martyrofsand on 1/17/2013 1:53 AM PST
Reply Quote
94 Goblin Warlock
9210
01/16/2013 11:48 PMPosted by Martyrofsand
or GC releases just how ignorant and stupid such a statement is the spec is done.


What's ignorant or stupid about it? It's just the way the mechanics work. Especially on a tier like this. To argue otherwise feels silly. Besides, even with that position the sum total of nerfs here is silly.

Hopefully if they really want to stick to this no-guarantee DA on PoH they un-nerf the SS-Mastery relationship, maybe tweak DA slightly upward.

Lower cd on penance sounds delicious too.

Ultimately though it all feels like stopgap measures until Disc gets more options in the AoE kit.
Edited by Leviathan on 1/17/2013 12:27 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
The main thing that bothers me about these changes is that there's once again little synergy within the spec. If we're meant to use more Penance and PW:S with these changes, why don't Archangel and Grace affect PW:S?

The other concern is that with the removal of the guaranteed DA from PoH and with the reduction of PW:S mana cost, it brings the HPM of PW:S and the new PoH close enough to the point that we'll just end up spamming PW:S instead.
Edited by Ceddya on 1/17/2013 12:24 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Priest
11895
01/17/2013 12:22 AMPosted by Ceddya
The main thing that bothers me about these changes is that there's once again little synergy within the spec. If we're meant to use more Penance and PW:S with these changes, why don't Archangel and Grace affect PW:S?

Archangel does affect PW:S, I think. I checked tonight (just out of curiosity), but that may've been a trinket proc. Not that a trinket proc would get me from ~85k shields to ~107k.
Edited by Skootalloo on 1/17/2013 12:28 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
13730
now the new question arises

where is mastery in terms of stat priorities when 5.2 comes?

pw: shield is still affected by mastery and it might look like disc will be going back to bubble spamming. however, stacking crit helps to proc more DA.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
now the new question arises

where is mastery in terms of stat priorities when 5.2 comes?

pw: shield is still affected by mastery and it might look like disc will be going back to bubble spamming. however, stacking crit helps to proc more DA.


Ah, screw it, let's all stack Haste and Crit and do nothing but Atonement spam.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
7315
01/17/2013 12:05 AMPosted by Leviathan
or GC releases just how ignorant and stupid such a statement is the spec is done.


What's ignorant or stupid about it? It's just the way the mechanics work. Especially on a tier like this. To argue otherwise feels silly. Besides, even with that position the sum total of nerfs here is silly.

Hopefully if they really want to stick to this no-guarantee DA on PoH they un-nerf the SS-Mastery relationship, maybe tweak DA slightly upward.

Lower cd on penance sounds delicious too.

Ultimately though it all feels like stopgap measures until Disc gets more options in the AoE kit.


Let me rephrase it for you so you can understand just how stupid such a comment is...

"the fact that DoTs can effect multiple targets at a time" means that even when affliction locks will be the lowest on damage meters they wont be fixed."

Both are completely idiotic statements devoid of any rational thought. This idea that a spec can do less then every other spec at the same job and still be considered viable is stupid and ignorant.

No matter what changes they make to the spec as long as they plan on taking the stance of disc must have less through-put because of the proactive nature of shielding disc will not be viable. No class would be viable under such circumstances.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
12825
pw: shield is still affected by mastery and it might look like disc will be going back to bubble spamming. however, stacking crit helps to proc more DA.

OK. Back in Firelands, Crit was, mathematically-speaking, an outstanding stat for Disc. We weren't using much PWS, so Crit affected most of our healing. It was the top throughput stat for PoH overall (or at least roughly tied with Haste, depending on your other stats): it gave us 200% heals and 300% DAs. And it wasn't half bad for Atonement and Penance. But most importantly, it blew all the other stats out of the water for DA stacking, on average. And DA-stacking was what we primarily did. Those giant crit DAs were pretty much guaranteed to be consumed, because we could roll them reliably. And we were spamming PoH on full-health raids for DA anyway, so crit, in theory, should have been awesome. The stars had aligned.

And yet people still didn't stack it. The prevailing build was Haste/Mastery - even though, mathematically, mastery was a far inferior stat, and it barely did anything for DA. The consistency of what it actually did, especially in those important moments where we needed PWS, was more important.

Now, crit isn't nearly as good as it was then. It does the same thing for PoH as it does for all your other spells: proc a bunch of overhealing and some unreliable, short-duration shields that have a fair chance of just falling off unused. And you won't be casting as much PoH anyway, because you won't be spamming it on full-health groups, so your crit doesn't even have an opportunity to pull its weight. Meanwhile, you'll be casting significantly more PWS (even if you aren't full-on spamming it), which heavily favours Mastery and devalues Crit. And you'll be using more Atonement than was used then, which favours Haste.

So...no. Don't stack Crit.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Shaman
12265
01/17/2013 01:51 AMPosted by Martyrofsand
"the fact that DoTs can effect multiple targets at a time" means that even when affliction locks will be the lowest on damage meters they wont be fixed."


Yeah.. thats not the same at all.

Its pretty much a given that preventing damage is superior.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/17/2013 02:00 AMPosted by Pebble
"the fact that DoTs can effect multiple targets at a time" means that even when affliction locks will be the lowest on damage meters they wont be fixed."


Yeah.. thats not the same at all.

Its pretty much a given that preventing damage is superior.


That entirely depends on the mechanics of the damage preventing ability, and the mechancis of the fight. We're in a tier right now that incredibly caters to SS, and this is heavily skewing people's perceptions.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Priest
12725
Stripping PoH of guaranteed DA will be.... an enormous nerf. I'm hoping they don't go down that road unless more changes are planned outside of what is in the PTR changelog.

The PW:S/rapture change feels like a significant nerf to our mana regeneration. Our mana regeneration is out of control right now and I didn't see the previous rapture change fixing it. I just hope they don't go overboard on nerfing it.

My only concern with the penance change is it is already an amazingly efficient spell. It's not exactly in need of buffs.... But using it as compensation for neutering PoH seems reasonable.

The binding heal change is interesting. If they're going to do all of the other stuff I'd rather see it baseline though. We're going to need a lot of compensation on our AoE throughput to survive that PoH DA nerf. Putting this compensation in the form of a glyph is a bad idea for obvious reasons. More glyph options are a plus though.

I'm sure people are going to rage on the PoH DA area but it's really not a terrible way to get us off of relying on PoH so heavily, provided they can compensate us elsewhere. I'd still rather see a new AoE healing tool added to Disc to compensate instead of a ton of other changes thrown together.

It's also PTR.... So it's not finalized and I'd bet they often go overboard on purpose in PTR to see the full spectrum.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Patch notes seem to indicate that PW: Shield cost reduction is only 25%, but the Rapture return is back up to 150% instead of 100%.

I'm really, reallllly not liking their change to the PVP sets. Priests are already squishy. We don't need more healing bonuses in PvP, we need to be able to survive long enough to actually heal. Meh.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
7315
"the fact that DoTs can effect multiple targets at a time" means that even when affliction locks will be the lowest on damage meters they wont be fixed."


Yeah.. thats not the same at all.

Its pretty much a given that preventing damage is superior.


You are missing the point. If affliction was balanced around it's performance in fights when it can multi-dot everything and seriously increase it's numbers then it would suffer drasticly on fights like Patchwork, Festergut, etc etc that are single target DPS races. The perception the devs have of disc right now is that it's absorbs are so much strong because damage is coming at intervals damn near perfect for Spirit Shell and absorbs to land. If damage was coming randomly instead of periodicly disc numbers would be far from what they currently are.

Hell you could even see this back in wraith when disc was bubble botting with PW:S. On Mimeron and all the random AoE damage going around disc was still good but it wasn't as amazing as say prepping for Kologarns Shockwave. These are basic principles of healing styles and devs don't understand and they show it when they design content and so much of it caters to one healing style.

Frankly I can't believe I actually have to explain concepts that are this simple to people but then again this is the internet and I've learned to never underestimate just how clueless people on the internet are.

Note--I'm not saying Disc didn't deserve a nerf of some sort, and really didn't even want to get into the whole nerf discussion. My issue is the mentality presented in that quote from GC that disc can have lower healing through-put of other healers and still be considered to good. It's complete stupidity.
Edited by Martyrofsand on 1/17/2013 3:17 AM PST
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
12950
The exact magnitude of the PoH/Rapture changes may not be correct, but Blizzard has managed to zero in on the problem.

PoH should have never had the guaranteed DA because it disbalances the entire spell set. When your PoH is better than your ProM even under optimal ProM conditions, you've got a problem. The reason Discipline Priests have been spamming PoH for two expansions now is due to that auto-DA only on PoH - removing it is a huge step in the right direction.

Likewise, the Rapture change reflects the reality that their attempt to make PW:S castable without making it spammable went too far in the first direction. By lowering the cost and the Rapture return, they accomplish precisely this goal. Now if they'd just get rid of the stupid ICD mechanic and simply make Rapture apply a 12 sec Spirit buff (non-stacking) to the Priest, I'd be happy.

The glyph of Binding Heal probably isn't going to be worthwhile for Discipline. Discipline's conventional heals are simply too awful. For Holy, it'll be great due to FDCL/Serendipity.

Also, it's probably been mentioned, but Disc/Holy Flash Heal remains the same. The change is solely a nerf to Shadow's Flash Heal.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]