5.2 Flawed logic and assumption [T2 Gear]

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
This is the issue.

Pvpers want elite gear to carry the same meaning as challenge mode gear.

I don't care if you're casual, hardcore, skilled or not, that is the issue.

Tier 2 weapons created an advantage that promoted exploiting. They're fixing that.

Tier 2 armor was just for cosmetic/vanity reasons. They are also changing that.

The armor is the issue for many pvpers. They just want it to carry the same feeling as challenge mode gear, which most don't have a problem with.
17 Night Elf Priest
40
I , for one, do NOT want equality. I prefer when my opponents cannot put up a worthy fight. I will beat them anyway, cause I'm better, so the T2 saves me time cause I can pwn baddies faster.

I always liked playing around 2200 mmr cause its so fun to crush the dreams of those that are sooo close they can taste it. I mean, there isn't much gear disparity at actual high ratings - 2400+. I love cleaving down those guys running a viable comp at 2400 but haven't gotten there yet so my TSG counter to them farms 40 off em lol. Hello multi glad RMP, your skills are nothing compared to my T2 two-hander haha.

I always thought it was stupid how arena tournaments normalized ilvl. I mean, thats like rewarding the guys who didn't have time to farm up their full gear set cause they felt like playing an alt or couldn't finish their gear around all the interviews and PR they do. The guys that don't have those distractions shouldn't have their advantage taken away.

I remember one time snutz just came back and was trying to qualify for blizzcon. He barely did without perfect gear on a second account and with a little help from his friends (allegedly). But then they just gave him the same ilvl gear as everyone else for the tournament. Whats up with that? It's like they wanted fair fights or something. Life isn't fair lol!
90 Night Elf Hunter
5355
I , for one, do NOT want equality. I prefer when my opponents cannot put up a worthy fight. I will beat them anyway, cause I'm better, so the T2 saves me time cause I can pwn baddies faster.

I always liked playing around 2200 mmr cause its so fun to crush the dreams of those that are sooo close they can taste it. I mean, there isn't much gear disparity at actual high ratings - 2400+. I love cleaving down those guys running a viable comp at 2400 but haven't gotten there yet so my TSG counter to them farms 40 off em lol. Hello multi glad RMP, your skills are nothing compared to my T2 two-hander haha.

I always thought it was stupid how arena tournaments normalized ilvl. I mean, thats like rewarding the guys who didn't have time to farm up their full gear set cause they felt like playing an alt or couldn't finish their gear around all the interviews and PR they do. The guys that don't have those distractions shouldn't have their advantage taken away.

I remember one time snutz just came back and was trying to qualify for blizzcon. He barely did without perfect gear on a second account and with a little help from his friends (allegedly). But then they just gave him the same ilvl gear as everyone else for the tournament. Whats up with that? It's like they wanted fair fights or something. Life isn't fair lol!


LOL
+1
1 Troll Warrior
0
01/17/2013 07:34 PMPosted by Poppychulox
I haven't seen "casual" players spam trade chat "LF R1 or GLadiator push", I typically see the old "LF 3S for 2200 to get T2" ETC. I think Blizzard will be losing money if they implement this, from both casual and hardcore players.


That's odd because the only trade chat spam I see on the most populated server in the game is "WTS T2 CARRIES!". There is only two types of people that currently arena:

1) Randoms trying to point cap for no specific reason at 1000-1500mmr, done mostly via 2's (10-15 meaningless matches). This is not done for fun, it's just a brutal weekly grind for points. Sighs of relief when the other team fails to enter the match.

2) Gladiators selling carries or glads that mmr dump so they can lol @ 1500-2200 ratings.

There is no in between. People do not play to legitimately push rating outside of multi-glads pushing for glad then sitting on it for 7 months. So you have about .001% of potential PvPers that actually arena competitively and even they only push for 1 week. Arena in it's current state is a complete joke and I think serious players will appreciate the changes. People will actually play now to push rating for bigger weekly cap. This is huge incentive and you will see alot of people returning to arena and playing more consistently.
Edited by Lokpio on 1/18/2013 11:17 AM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
4370
I , for one, do NOT want equality. I prefer when my opponents cannot put up a worthy fight. I will beat them anyway, cause I'm better, so the T2 saves me time cause I can pwn baddies faster.

I always liked playing around 2200 mmr cause its so fun to crush the dreams of those that are sooo close they can taste it. I mean, there isn't much gear disparity at actual high ratings - 2400+. I love cleaving down those guys running a viable comp at 2400 but haven't gotten there yet so my TSG counter to them farms 40 off em lol. Hello multi glad RMP, your skills are nothing compared to my T2 two-hander haha.

I always thought it was stupid how arena tournaments normalized ilvl. I mean, thats like rewarding the guys who didn't have time to farm up their full gear set cause they felt like playing an alt or couldn't finish their gear around all the interviews and PR they do. The guys that don't have those distractions shouldn't have their advantage taken away.

I remember one time snutz just came back and was trying to qualify for blizzcon. He barely did without perfect gear on a second account and with a little help from his friends (allegedly). But then they just gave him the same ilvl gear as everyone else for the tournament. Whats up with that? It's like they wanted fair fights or something. Life isn't fair lol!


Because nobody in that tournament could obtain T2. Give me a break.
90 Orc Mage
7595
T2 = Muscles in the NFL
You work hard to achieve the muscles and the muscles aid you.


No one can argue with this, Pop has made way to many great points. I see this from here on out a agree or disagree thread. No more points to be made,

If you agree you want to earn your way then reply with "Respect"

If you disagree and want everything handed to you then type "Obama" ok, that was joke. Just say "Disagree" guys.

Best Regards
32
Edited by Thirtytwox on 1/18/2013 11:04 AM PST
100 Orc Shaman
6190
01/18/2013 05:27 AMPosted by Bottles


This. I am sure Poppy is just as upset as Bailamos was last night on his stream. It was so funny to watch his tears about it. Pilots and carries have ruined the pvp ladders for a long time. It's about time they made this change.


The stopping of carries for real life money is, in my opinion, the absolute best effect of this change. However, many of the higher rated teams probably will not queue as much as before. Carrying for money was the wrong kind of incentive to play more. I guess these people could still make money at the end of the season selling titles lol.

Unfortunately, after gear there is no reason to play other than for fun. This is a great reason to play but when most of the playerbase is used to getting something from pvp, they will play less when there is nothing left to get. Casual players will play more as it will take them longer to reach the 27,000 cap. Higher end players will reach the cap faster and run out of reasons to play.

What we need is rewards that can be obtained throughout the season but have no effect on the outcome of the arena or rated battleground games themselves. As many people and myself have stated before, pets/mounts/xmog gear would be perfectly fine. As rating inflates these rewards would become more accessible to the more casual players and would help extend the life of the ladder before the end of the season.


I honestly dont see higher rated people quitting Bottle. People have a desire to do things they are good at. This is why people continue to play old !@# games even after they have stopped being popular, or playing instruments, sports, etc. I know I still like to log on and snipe people in old fps games because I'm good at it. I have no incentive to do so except that fact I usually destroy people.

I doubt anyone still playing wow at high levels all this time is going to quit because the gear grind ran out. I mean, people still play d2 simply because they have huge amounts of gear and are considered "good". Which is why some people still stream them running the same old farming runs over and over. A classic example of this is just go watch a popular streamer in another game. They will load a game up, because they are bored of their "good" game, get stomped, and revert back to the game they are good at. It is just human nature to want to do things you are inherently good at. I dont think the end of the gear grind will cause high rated pvpers to leave.

Also, fun and mastery are the 2 best motivators. I'm still playing on blue geared alts this season just because I feel like I get better each time, and I still have fun even though they get rofl stomped by geared out guys.

Not only that, 27,000 conquest points is a lot guys. Its not like casuals and 1800-1900 players are just gonna be rolling in gear or getting T2 easily. It is going to take more then capping each week to get it in a reasonable time frame. This means more casuals/medium skill players trying to push rating so they can get it faster. Should mean more participation, and in turn more players getting decent and moving up to help the dead ladders at the top.

It also means less focus on playing OP comps, IMO. Now, it doesnt hurt you that much to expirament with comps and classes you normally wouldn't play with, like Ele shamans and such. The type of teams you might run into in 2s. Because there is no T2 or bust stigma attached to 3's anymore. You can try some new things, give some classes/people a chance because, well, you dont need to push so hard for that carrot that you cant reach anyways.

Of course the tryhards will still push OP comps, but normal players will be more inclined to simply play for the sake of playing and maybe winning, and could see more ele/ret/etc comps. What do you have to lose playing with them? Nothing.
90 Night Elf Hunter
5355


Castro? really? wow...that has nothing to do with this system of competition. I wonder how you would run the NBA, MLB or NFL? giving better gear to those who won previous years and restricting the new rockie of the year to play equally equipped? wow...


T2 = Muscles in the NFL
You work hard to achieve the muscles and the muscles aid you.

Why work hard to get these big muscles if it doesn't benefit you.

Steroids = free muscles which is frowned upon.

Why should people get T2 for free?

Everybody starts off at the same point, it's you and your fault only if you cannot achieve T2, why must you ruin it for everyone else?

There are two types of people on this thread, people who want to keep T2 because they earned it, or people who want the game to be easier for them because they can't get T2.

I feel like most of you voted for Obama, you all seem to want free !@#$.


Disagree

And your Obama comment was uncalled for, please refrain from petty insults

T2 = Gear, gloves, shoes and equipment available to every and all NFL player so that they can compete on a level playing field

Skill = the winning team that comes out victorious while having the same gear

You work hard so that with the same gear, you can defeat your opponent
90 Night Elf Hunter
5355
T2 = Muscles in the NFL
You work hard to achieve the muscles and the muscles aid you.


No one can argue with this



I just did
90 Undead Warlock
8300


No one can argue with this



I just did


Not rationally or logically.
Edited by Psyops on 1/18/2013 11:08 AM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
4370


T2 = Muscles in the NFL
You work hard to achieve the muscles and the muscles aid you.

Why work hard to get these big muscles if it doesn't benefit you.

Steroids = free muscles which is frowned upon.

Why should people get T2 for free?

Everybody starts off at the same point, it's you and your fault only if you cannot achieve T2, why must you ruin it for everyone else?

There are two types of people on this thread, people who want to keep T2 because they earned it, or people who want the game to be easier for them because they can't get T2.

I feel like most of you voted for Obama, you all seem to want free !@#$.


Disagree

And your Obama comment was uncalled for, please refrain from petty insults

T2 = Gear, gloves, shoes and equipment available to every and all NFL player so that they can compete on a level playing field

Skill = the winning team that comes out victorious while having the same gear

You work hard so that with the same gear, you can defeat your opponent


Last i checked 2200 and T2 where achievements, not something to help you get achievements.

I believe everyone should start out with full heroic gear, anyone else agree?
90 Night Elf Hunter
5355


I just did


Not rationally or logically.


I stand by my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

Making blanket statement like "No one can argue this" is neither rational nor logical
90 Orc Mage
7595
01/18/2013 11:03 AMPosted by Healubaddies
is going to quit because the gear grind ran out.


I noticed you have no T2. In any case, please no more long arguments as they never go anywhere and both sides already been looked at.

Most of the T1 guys want it removed and most of the T2 players want to keep it. We need to turn this into a simple thread for it to get noticed.

If you agree you want to earn your way then reply with "Respect"

If you disagree and want everything handed to you then type "Obama" ok, that was joke. Just say "Disagree" guys.
90 Orc Mage
7595
Respect

Whos with me!
90 Undead Warlock
8300
I haven't seen a single person in this thread with T2 in favor of the changes.

In the converse, ~95% of the people with T1 posting in this thread are in favor of the changes.

RESPECT
Edited by Psyops on 1/18/2013 11:18 AM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
4370
OBAMA!

JK...Respect
90 Human Paladin
6965
Will anybody actually spend points on the non elite conquest gear in 5.2? seems to me it will be wise to just save all conquest till you get 27k then dump it all on elite gear, which wouldn't be much of a problem if u have majority 2/2 491 malev gear. Considering the non elite tyrannical gear will be most likely ilvl 493, there won't be much point spending all that conquest on a 2 ilvl upgrade.

I can see it just being one long boring grind to 27k.
90 Night Elf Hunter
5355


Last i checked 2200 and T2 where achievements, not something to help you get achievements.



If everyone has T2, it will be a level playing field, and will not help a casual player like myself get the 2200 achievement. Skill will be the sole determinant, not gear.

If NFL changed it rules so that only the winning team can wear shoes, and the losing team is not entitled to wear shoes until they hit a certain ranking, do you think that is fair?
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]