How would YOU gone about to Nerf Disc?

7 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Nerf wise:

I would of

-Removed the auto DA in PoH from Spirit Shell. Spirit shell would once again benefit from Mastery and PoH would still cast auto Divine Aegis but not when Spirit Shell was active.
-Reverted Disc's PoH buff.
-Reverted the Divine Aegis buff.

Buff wise:

I would of

-Put the Disc portion of the Divine Insight talent in Twist of Fate and given Holy's Prayer of Mending buff from Divine Insight to both Holy and Discipline. So both CoH and Penance would give you a 40% chance of making your Mending bounce instantly.
-I would of given Disc a new healing AoE spell on a 10-15 sec cooldown.
-Buffed Penance's healing perhaps by allowing it to also cast auto Divine Aegis.
-Archangel would no longer require Evangelism to function. It would be a flag 25% healing boost on a 1 min cooldown.

Neutral Wise:

I would of

-Just left Rapture at 200% like live, but not allowing it to work with Spirit buffs.
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100 Undead Priest
10540
Putting the divine insight buff on twist of fate is probably not a very good idea. The current divine insight function for disc is near worthless in pve, and the talent is already pretty strong when paired with atonement for disc. While giving the divine insight buff from holy to work with disc would be cool, and would probably give us another fairly strong raid heal, it would probably be a bit much considering how much more often we cast prayer of healing in comparison to holy.

In my opinion, the disc priest play style didn't need too much of a revamp. I think the simplest and most effective thing they could have done to bring disc priests back on par would be to increase the mana cost of prayer of healing anywhere from 10% to 20% and referring back to their initial idea with rapture of removing the short term spirit buff but offsetting it by increasing the baseline to 250%. The power word solace change was necessary, but any other major revamp to the disc play style should have happened in 5.0. Cheers my friends, disc priest 4 life. Thanks for starting this toic, because I'm sure some good ideas will come from it
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90 Night Elf Druid
10470
Remove spirit shell then buff other abilities as needed.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
The patch notes I want for priests in 5.2:

Spirit Shell: Redesigned. 2.5 second cast, ~5% of base mana (15000). Applies an absorption shield to all party and raid members within 30 yards of the target for (insert value around 40% of a 5-player Disc PoH), divided equally among all targets. This effect is increased by the priest's Critical chance and Mastery.

Prayer of Healing: Healing reduced by 20% (this is a straight reversion of the PoH hotfix buff). Range of the effect is increased to 40 yards.

Prayer of Healing - Discipline: No longer automatically applies Divine Aegis. Now applies Divine Aegis for 30% of the overhealing on each target affected, in addition to the Divine Aegis generated by Critical effects.

Prayer of Healing - Holy: 50% of the overhealing on each target affected by Prayer of Healing now heals a friendly low-health party or raid member within 15 yards of that target. This effect is increased by the priest's Critical chance.

Power Word: Barrier: Redesigned. Instant cast, 6.3% of base mana, 3-minute cooldown. Summons a holy barrier around the casting priest that reduces all damage done to friendly targets within 40 yards by 15%. All heals from any source received by targets affected by the barrier create an additional absorption shield for 20% of the amount healed.

Rapture: Now restores 7% of base mana.

Hymn of Hope: Redesigned. Channeled, 8 second cast, 3 minute cooldown. Increases the Spirit of all party and raid members within 40 yards by 400% of the casting priest's Spirit. This effect is not affected by temporary Spirit gains.

Circle of Healing: Healing increased by 15%. Cooldown reduced by 2 seconds.

Glyph of Circle of Healing: Redesigned. Circle of Healing heals an additional target, but its cooldown is increased by 1 second.

Penance: Healing and damage increased by 20%. Cooldown reduced by 4 seconds.

Healing Priest Tier 14 set bonus: Redesigned. Does something boring.

Holy Word: Sanctuary: Duration reduced to 10 seconds. Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds. Mana cost reduced by 60%. Heals from Holy Word: Sanctuary cause Prayer of Mending to jump to the next target.
Edited by Kaels on 1/19/2013 11:37 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
13385
Well first off i wouldn't have forced v2 of the wrath play style on us for 5.2. I mean what logic say's forcing us into a near identicle play style(attonement will not do much to counter this) to literally the most widely despised playstyle for this spec is a good idea.

We should look at the problem first and what it's cause is. I would say it's aegis it's self which if you really think about it is more or less in it's original form, and the fact that piling on overhealing in favor of aegis is an effective playstyle atm because of it.

My idea would be to change aegis to something more reactive with the targets current hp% that would apply regardless of the spell criting. For instance a target at 85% hp would see no aegis, while targets below that would see an increasing % of the heal starting at say 10% and caping at 40%(similar to how a resto shaman's mastery works with fixed number's) as a shield.

I feel this would put an end to the mass overheal spaming to stack aegis and make our actual healing feel more reactive. This would also acomplish the dev's goal of making us use poh to heal rather then to stack aegis, and preserve our shielding capacity when it's needed.

Since this would make the current form of inner focus pretty pointless i would change the 100% crit chance to a 50% increase on the next flash heal/gheal/poh/binding heal or increase the absorbtion of the next pws cast by 25%

As far as everything else i'd keep the change's to SS and the mana return change's to rapture both needed to be done tho i'm not sure i'd be fond of my mana tide being devalued so consistantly if i were a resto shammy that arguement is not for us to make.
Edited by Tsantsu on 1/19/2013 8:22 AM PST
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1 Blood Elf Priest
0
Based on current changes, wishlist for Disc

Rapture: Whenever you cast PW:S, you gain Rapture, restoring 2% mana every 3 seconds over 12 seconds. Non stackable - casting it again just extends the duration (but to no longer than 15 seconds.) PVE and PVP priests get the same amount back that can be more easily balanced and is not at the mercy of a long chain of missed hits on the tank. A buff is much more easy to monitor in game than an ICD so will help newer players.

How would we deal with AOE?
1. First we would pre-shield - but this would be our "Heal" type AOE. Too much pre-shielding breaks encounters and bores the hell out of our raid mates. Numbers based on my level 501-505 - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/mazrigos/Jesinta/simple

Power Word: Aegis - Basically a POH clone, cast time, group targeted, but costs a little less say 12k) that puts DA on a group. The size of the DA would be approximately 15-20k per person. Approx 30-40k HPS and 6.25-8.33 HPM. (Similar to Kael's suggestion above)

2. Once the damage has been done our main AOE would be POH which would heal for roughly 30k for an average of 60k HPS and 11.11 HPM. Any criticals would still proc the 50% DA.

3. PW:S How to bring it in to the fold a little more than now, but not as much as it was in WOTLK . Reduce the mana cost to 13k and buff BT to encourage weaving. BT now increase Haste by 10% for instant and channel spells for 5 seconds or until you cast a cast time spell. Whenever you cast a cast time spell, increase the Haste bonus by an additional 10% and the spell gains an additional 10% chance to crit.

Also, PW:S now scales with Crit, increasing the shield by 50% of your crit rating.

4. When under the effect of Borrowed Time, your POM will auto bounce (á la Holy DI)
PW:S > POM (gets Holy DI treatment and 10% haste > Penance (10% haste) > Prayer of Healing (25% Haste and 10% Crit chance). This way, BT is less powerful for PW:S spamming and encourages more spell weaving.

5. Spirit Shell remains a 1 minute CD but with 4-5 charges. Each FH/GH/POH consumes one charge and takes the core FH/GH/POH heal amount and turns it into a SS shield and then increases that shield by your crit % (+11% say) and then increases the shield by your Mastery value. This is definitely a throughput boost, no denying it, but I really feel our absorption spells have to be improved by our Mastery stat. Whilst this is a powerful increase, progression oriented Priests will still use this calculatingly and not just macroed in.

6. Penance increased by an additional 20% and the CD is now 8 seconds baseline. Now shoots out 6 bursts of healing rather than 3, The machine gun would be epic graphically and when used offensively it is an improved AOE tool.

7. This would mean for AOE we have PW: Aegis for relatively weak prevention, POH for healing up after the damage as well as BT infused POM, 6 pulse Penance Atonement and the level 90 spells. Our POH/POM/Penance on balance would be 70% of the power of the other healers' tools, but the pre-shielding of PW: Aegis would make up the rest.

8. Whenever you cast Atonement proccing spells in PVP, the Atonement heal is calculated before resilience is taken into account - so that the size of a PVP Smite heal is of the same ratio to the size of regular Heal as it would appear in PVE. Same goes for MWs who want Fistweaving back.

9. PW:S Dispel protection - whenever PW:S is dispelled the, the dispeller's next damage abilty used deals no damage and instead places a Divine Aegis equal to 10% of the targets max health instead. If the dispeller would next cast a heal, no healing is done and instead a healing absorption shield is placed, consuming healing equal to 5% of the dispeller's maximum health. Or if the dispeller is a healer, all healing spells are locked out for 5 seconds, if a dpser, all damage spells are locked out for 5 seconds.
Edited by Jesinta on 1/19/2013 11:03 AM PST
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1 Blood Elf Priest
0
Wishlist under current changes for Holy and general stuff

1. Holy gets a passive 15% Healing modifier (but looses the 25% buff from Chakra)

2. Circle of Healing now has an 10 second CD and 20% increased healing

3. Chakra now has a 5 second CD baseline and the benefits are 4 fold
~ +10% secondary stat,
~ 2 mechanics to help you in that Chakra
~ A HW that helps in PVP and PVE

3a. Chakra: Chastise now has the following benefit:
A1. Critical strike increased by 10%
A2. Damage increased by 30%
A3. Offensive Holy spells proc Atonement.
A4. HW: Chastise now stuns rather than disorients the target for 3 seconds. Every successful offensive spell you cast reduces the CD by 2 seconds. (Always interrupts when used)

3b. Chakra: Serendipity
B1. No longer a 25% boost, now gains passive 10% haste boost instead
B2. Whenever you cast GS and it doesn't proc the CD is reset to 60 seconds.
B3. Direct healing refresh the duration of Renew.
B4. HW: Serenity reduced to 8 second CD and instead of increasing Crit now increases the healing by 25% instead. The buff lasts 20 seconds. (Keep up on two tanks)

3c. Chakra: Sanctuary
C1. No longer a 25% boost, now gains pass 10% mastery instead (useless before level 80)
C2. Circle of Healing CD reduced by 4 seconds.
C3. Circle of Healing and POM now proc Serendipity charges
C4. HW: Sanctuary redesigned. 1 minute CD, 10 second duration. Heals the 3 lowest targets for X every second. Allies standing in the Sanctuary receive 10% additional healing received and cannot be critted. Enemies standing in the Sanctuary do 10% less damage. Whenever you (Priest only) are standing in the Sanctuary you are immune to Silence, Stun, and Interrupt effects. I think this will give Priests some really needed utility in PVE and help in PVP enormously.

General
1. Leap of Faith has been reduced to 30 second CD. Leap of Faith can be cast on Lightwell/Lightspring without incurring its CD.
2. Body & Soul remains at 4 seconds with AF keeping the 6 second buff.
3. Phantasm is now baseline for all specs. Been replaced by Faithfulness. Whenever you are stunned or lose control of your character, you can the Faithfulness buff for 8 seconds that allows you use Leap of Faith to swap positions with the ally you target whilst you have lost control.
4. Dominate Mind is now baseline. Silence has been removed from Shadow Priests and is now in Dominate Mind's place in the talent tree. Giving us an anti-melee, anti-range, and anti healer/caster option. DM is a fun spell for LM in AH or EOTS but I wouldn't want to talent it.
5. Fade, level 15 skills, Leap of Faith, Shackle Undead, Psychic Scream mana costs have been reduced by 75% and Mass Dispel has been reduced by 50%.
6. Surge of Light: Whenever you cast POH or PW: Aegis you have a 5% chance to proc SOL. SOL can now be spent on instant POH/PW:A too.
Edited by Jesinta on 1/19/2013 11:09 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6910
Jesinta

1. Leap of Faith has been reduced to 30 second CD. Leap of Faith can be cast on Lightwell/Lightspring without incurring its CD.


This is an interesting idea. I really liked this. I liked several of yours and Kaels' suggestions but this one in particular seems fantastic for movement.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
Questions for Jesinta:
1) Why would you prefer a group-targeted PoH-clone mechanic for your AoE shield over a true AoE shield like the one on my wishlist?

2) Don't you think above-full-strength all-absorb PoHs under Spirit Shell are likely to be a balance problem? Even with just 4 charges, that's 600k damage * crit * mastery...easily 1M damage absorbed on a 1-minute timer, on top of whatever you were able to stack with Aegis. That could end up being enough to eat entire mechanics (get 1.5M combined Aegis and SS, and you've matched a Divine Hymn before the damage even happens).

I think if you're going to allow SS as a CD while also allowing a spammable AoE absorb, SS needs to be moved up to 3 minutes and replace/be combined with Barrier.

Comments:

I really like the idea of a rolling buff for Rapture, especially with a static %mana return. I think you have the numbers about right. That should go directly into the next patch without question or modification.

I love a lot of your smaller, PvP-oriented and QoL changes.

Your Chakra redesign is just about perfect.

6-tick Penance would rock. WTB.

I'm all for adding more synergy to the Disc toolkit, but I think you may just have overbuffed Borrowed Time a little.

And what do you think of my ideas for PoH? I really think it needs some updating - its targeting mechanic is an issue - but it can't go full-on smart heal at its current strength and remain our core spammable AoE. What I suggested is my first stab at a compromise of sorts.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14025
Very interesting ideas. It's clear some folks have given this a lot of thought! I knew Kaels would have a plan.

Now if only you guys could get more of this sooner rather than two expacs from now.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
I tried to keep my suggestions to just "patchable" changes (no new spells, abilities retain their basic theme)...but come to think of it, you're right, there's a 2-expansion lag time on player suggestions anyway. Might as well shoot for the moon.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14025
01/19/2013 11:47 AMPosted by Kaels
Might as well shoot for the moon.


Hey now, let's not get all crazy. Altho I admit the blue saying that PoH's party restriction might go someday had me in shock.
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90 Gnome Priest
11895
01/19/2013 11:47 AMPosted by Kaels
I tried to keep my suggestions to just "patchable" changes (no new spells, abilities retain their basic theme)...but come to think of it, you're right, there's a 2-expansion lag time on player suggestions anyway. Might as well shoot for the moon.

Well...Not entirely that much.

I actually made a suggestion back in Wrath that Agility shouldn't grant armor. Reason being that that armor difference between bears and plate tanks ended up being pretty massive by the end of the expansion. The bear form armor modifier balanced leather against plate, but it didn't balance the extra armor they got from agility. Then it got changed in Cata so Agi no longer gave extra armor.

Anyway, on topic.

I'm really unsure of what to do with Spirit Shell. I'm inclined to agree with Kaels that it should be its own spell instead of a CD (or if it remained a CD, it should really just be a raid CD), but I'm not entirely sure on the implementation. Spreading to the whole raid at once seems too convenient. Maybe have it 'smart absorb' a number of targets (i.e. prioritizing the unshielded and most injured) instead.

I've mentioned it before, and I'll say it again: I'd like to see multi-target Atonement healing. If done properly, Atonement would be our method of healing damage back up and something like Spirit Shell would help us prevent it in the first place.

EDIT: Also, the SS cap would need to be addressed. Some way, not entirely sure how.
Edited by Skootalloo on 1/19/2013 12:16 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
Well...Not entirely that much.

I actually made a suggestion back in Wrath that Agility shouldn't grant armor. Reason being that that armor difference between bears and plate tanks ended up being pretty massive by the end of the expansion. The bear form armor modifier balanced leather against plate, but it didn't balance the extra armor they got from agility. Then it got changed in Cata so Agi no longer gave extra armor.

Yeah, that's true. And Cascade and Halo are actually spell mechanics I suggested in mid-Cata. (Still waiting to see the Shaman spells I suggested in the same post! Get on it, shaman devs!)

Atonement range is another one of my regular pet suggestions, although it has origins all the way back in Cata beta.

Maybe it's more like half an expansion. All I know is that they rarely get picked up in the same patch for which they're being suggested. And some types of changes (cough) Lightspring (cough) take longer than others.
Edited by Kaels on 1/19/2013 12:36 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
I like the idea of giving Penance more ticks and using it with Atonement would make it a good raid heal. The only issue is that it would actually make it as good, if not better, than CoH, especially with the buffs in 5.2

I dislike the idea of making a Rapture a buff. Part of what makes Disc engaging is ensuring that Rapture is procced as often as possible and it does add a layer of difficulty to the class.
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90 Human Priest
17065
Disc only, Mainly PvE centric (can't say I PvP enough to make changes).

1) Spirit Shell - Spell change. It is now a stance. When active it converts (not add onto) a % of all direct healing (this includes Penance) into a DA shield (10? 15?). Mastery either makes the amount of converted absorbed go up or increases the converted amount (jury is still out). When not in SS mode all healing is 'raw'. Crits activate DA.

2) DA - Mech change - Does not stack, nor does it roll.. Last 5 seconds on the target.

3) Rapture unlinked from spirit buffs.

4) New combo - Inner Focused + Penance = Instead of 3 bolts to the same target. The priest now shoots 3 bolts to 3 different targets. If Inner Focus is targeted at the boss, the 3x3=9 bolts is spread alla atonement healing (so up to 9 people can get hit, but max 3 bolt per individual).

5) New Spell - Atonement 'Flag' - Place on individual to direct atonement healing. If target is above 80%(?), atonement healing is redirected elsewhere. Target must be within atonement range for the flag to apply. Priests may glyph the Flag to up the % of redirection from 80 to 100.

While we're at it:

Glyph of Halo - Inverses the way Halo works (biggest damage/healing closer to priest, weakens as it spreads).

Glyph of Cascade - Cascade now heals a static amount per player and no longer scales with range (amount to be the average between weakest and biggest bolt).

Glyph of Life Grip - You pull yourself to a friendly target instead of the other way around

Glyph of Divine Star - You now throw mushrooms instead of a star.

Random crapshot ideas. But basically nixes the stuff people abuse to make disc OP.
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/19/2013 12:43 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
01/19/2013 12:36 PMPosted by Ceddya
I dislike the idea of making a Rapture a buff. Part of what makes Disc engaging is ensuring that Rapture is procced as often as possible and it does add a layer of difficulty to the class.

Are you amenable to the idea of making it a static return?

That was the original plan for it in MoP - the Spirit scaling is an artifact of a particular long-running fight between GC and healers on the beta, which was launched with some healers having scaling regen and others static. Disc got its scaling regen back, but then everyone else's scaling was removed one by one, and Rapture was never reverted.

Also, what would you think of changing the mechanic to a buff - but one which procs when PWS is absorbed/dispelled rather than when it's cast? There could be an ICD on refreshing it, but I think ideally the ICD should be a few seconds shorter than the duration to make for slightly more predictable play.
Edited by Kaels on 1/19/2013 12:57 PM PST
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1 Blood Elf Priest
0
Questions for Jesinta:
1) Why would you prefer a group-targeted PoH-clone mechanic for your AoE shield over a true AoE shield like the one on my wishlist?


I like your idea and I agree with GC that part restrictions are sorta gamey. However, I always remember in TBC when I was able to use POH effectively and whilst the party restriction isn't as restrictive as it once was (damage seems to always be raid wide rather than random) it does sorta give an element of control during guild runs. It's weakness in LFR is understandable if you cannot control group layouts. I like the control the party element gives me, especially if we were giving some other tools like DI/POM / 6 missile Penance to deal with non group bound damage profiles. One of the things I don't like about the division of the absorb between all players is that it can feel mediocre in 25s (similar to arguments some druids have been making about the revamped Shrooms) where it just tickles players. However, maybe with Absorbs, they should just be tickling - they are too dominant now.


2) Don't you think above-full-strength all-absorb PoHs under Spirit Shell are likely to be a balance problem? Even with just 4 charges, that's 600k damage * crit * mastery...easily 1M damage absorbed on a 1-minute timer, on top of whatever you were able to stack with Aegis. That could end up being enough to eat entire mechanics (get 1.5M combined Aegis and SS, and you've matched a Divine Hymn before the damage even happens).

I think if you're going to allow SS as a CD while also allowing a spammable AoE absorb, SS needs to be moved up to 3 minutes and replace/be combined with Barrier.


You are right at 1m damage. 30k*5 people = 150k per cast of POH, x1.15 (crit bonus) = 175k x 1.45 (mastery - figures based off my gear with raid crit and mastery buff) that would equal 250k per cast or 1m over 4 charges. However, that is 10 seconds worth of cast time (pre haste) or 100k HPS - which I imagine would be lower than other specs burst capability - albeit one that is unlikely to OH. I would want it on a 1min CD as I have loved them ever since I got the Sinestra haste trinket. 1min CDs to me feel like an integral part of our rotation and so fun, 3 min CDs feel like OMG or pre-planned buttons and I find less exciting. A 1 min SS equal to 100k HPS wouldn't bee too dominant, as long as there was a mix of encounter Big Bang Abilities at different CDs - 45 seconds, 1 min, 1.5 min etc.

If it games mechanics, perhaps change it to a 30 second CD with 2-3 charges. Please don't change to a 3 min CD - I hate those!

I liked your PW:B idea too. I would love to see a Glyph of PW:B that caused a barrier on all people within 30 yards but reducing damage by 15% instead. Paladins could also get something like the opposite in that their Glyph would change AM to 20% all damage (physical/magical) but only within 10 yards of them.


I'm all for adding more synergy to the Disc toolkit, but I think you may just have overbuffed Borrowed Time a little.


You are right, that would be too strong - but I'd like BT to be weaker for Shield spam, but slightly stronger for cast spells to encourage weaving. However, that could be balanced.


And what do you think of my ideas for PoH? I really think it needs some updating - its targeting mechanic is an issue - but it can't go full-on smart heal at its current strength and remain our core spammable AoE. What I suggested is my first stab at a compromise of sorts.


Your ideas for POH on both Holy and Disc are great. I think by reducing the weakness of OH on full health targets (that 1 who just got DLd by a Pala and ruined your perfect POH) will help overcome the the party restriction somewhat whilst giving the AOE it's own design space and personality. Without the Party Restriction it would just come a clone of something else.

Gief your HoH - even if it is a Holy only improved spell (Disc/Shadow retain the existing mechanic) as I think Holy needs more PVE utility, and this spreads out the special snowflake of MTT a bit wider.
Edited by Jesinta on 1/19/2013 1:05 PM PST
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87 Troll Rogue
0
reworked our mastery competely so it didnt affect absorbs and buff pw:s slightly to make up for the mastery loss.

Obv couldnt be anything too good for a new mastery or it would just break everything again. something that would fall between crit and haste in stat weights would work fine.

maybe make the mastery a permanent DA like affect on our single target heals only, that easily adjustable percentage wise to keep it not overpowered

Does this not fix everything? significant nerf thats needed plus it would make us think about spamming something other then poh.. go figure.
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1 Blood Elf Priest
0
01/19/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Kaels
I dislike the idea of making a Rapture a buff. Part of what makes Disc engaging is ensuring that Rapture is procced as often as possible and it does add a layer of difficulty to the class.



I'm happy with the current Rapture, even at 150% and I do like the way it works. It adds depth and flavour. However, if it is going to lose the interaction with trinket/Darkglow procs (MTT and other external Spirit procs are completely understandable), it loses a lot of the fun for me. Shielding the tank every time Rapture comes off CD isn't interesting and can be downright annoying in raids with multi Discs fighting over prime Rapture targets.

Playing alongside another Disc player, esp in 10 man (which I've only done for Grand Empress Heroic really) is mightily annoying when you are fighting over prime Rapture real estate.

By being a constant 7-8% mana return over 12 seconds, refreshed every time you PW:S will make the spec much easier to balance and hopefully will give the devs more time to balance out our mechanics and numbers rather than concentrating on a Mana regen mechanic that can sometimes procs at 12 secs if your lucky or 25 seconds if you're not.
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