How would YOU gone about to Nerf Disc?

90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
01/23/2013 01:13 AMPosted by Twistedmind
You'll have to take my word on it for the reported numbers, but my goal next week is to beat one of our melee dps on elegon.


I'm not sure my guild will be happy if I post this, but:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/qwaftbkz45jsjmep/sum/damageDone/?s=1168&e=1566

In case people are doubtful, pulling 110k+ in Elegon is easy. You don't even need to drop down below 8k Spirit, I do it in the gear you see on my Armory. Ignore our Shaman, it's farm night and he wasn't really trying/currently hates having to be Ele.

I still believe the easiest solution would be to nerf the damage but buff the healing of Atonement, so that the healing remains the same as Live but the damage is drastically reduced.
Edited by Qùess on 1/23/2013 6:14 AM PST
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90 Worgen Priest
9630
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/qwaftbkz45jsjmep/sum/damageDone/?s=1168&e=1566

In case people are doubtful, pulling 110k+ in Elegon is easy. You don't even need to drop down below 8k Spirit, I do it in the gear you see on my Armory. Ignore our Shaman, it's farm night and he wasn't really trying/currently hates having to be Ele.


The most I can pull is like... 60ish...

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/qwzo0b0ppu4dpe5b/analyze/dd/source/?s=8115&e=8595

That's with me mostly spamming atonement. Am I doing something wrong that you're doubling my dps? 0.o
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
If you replaced a healer and a dps with 2 disc priests, and told them do everything you can to maximize dps, they would be doing 50k dps and 50k hps during that burst window for tank healing. That would be balanced, but what I'm trying to say is that those disc priests can actually do more than 50k dps.


A well-played DPS should be doing 3-4 times more than Atonement DPS from a healing geared Disc Priest. You cannot forget that at least 20% of our total DPS comes from Mindbender. Coupled with the fact that we have no damage cooldowns, high burst or a proper AoE damage to healing mechanic, I simply cannot see any progression guilds doing that unless the fight was extremely gimmicky.

01/23/2013 04:58 AMPosted by Twistedmind
And currently, your atonements can do 60k dps, and 60k hps.


The issue is that the *60k DPS includes the contribution from Mindbender and is also based on a Disc completely reforged for DPS. You're looking at Atonement values more in the range of *45-50k DPS and certainly less HPS if we account for overhealing.

Also, a healing reforged Disc Priest who's only weaving in Penance and at least 3xSolace per min will be doing *15-20k DPS via Atonement, whilst bringing much higher burst AND sustained healing. I just don't see a pure Atonement Disc Priest being viable for progression at all, unless it's a completely gimmicky fight. The fact that most progression Disc Priests will be using the 4pc T14 set bonus during early to mid HM progression further cements this, as a lower portion of your total DPS will be coming from Smite and Solace/HF.

*Very rough values, but you get the point.
Edited by Ceddya on 1/23/2013 6:52 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12450
01/23/2013 06:41 AMPosted by Ceddya
at least 20% of our total DPS comes from Mindbender.

That sounds awfully high. It's definitely lower than that for me in Chastise. Although Disc's dps is somewhat lower, so I suppose it's plausible.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12265
You cannot forget that at least 20% of our total DPS comes from Mindbender. Coupled with the fact that we have no damage cooldowns, high burst


If 20% of your dps is coming from an ability that has 25% uptime, that is pretty much a damage cooldown. Am I missing something?

Also, Power Infusion.
Edited by Pebble on 1/23/2013 7:34 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
17065
I'm curious to why the discussion is about atonement, and even more curious to why Twisted seems adamant in gunning it down when atonement really isn't the reason why, in the words of other healers and to a certain extent, Blizz, 'DISC ARE OP, NERF NERF NERF.'

There are times I read twisted's post and go "Ok makes sense", and then there are times I read them and question whether the individual actually raids seriously as a healing disc, or is just there as a third leg healer in a 10 that goes disc as DPS off-healing, and then uses his experience as this very narrow, utility third wheel role to speak for the entirety of disc healing - whether the disc is 2 healing as a pillar, 3rd wheel, 2nd fiddle 25 disc, main string 25 disc - as a whole.

This is probably one of those latter times.

I do not believe the issue with disc is atonement. Can we go back to discussing about ways to remedy SS, DA, POH rolling, Mana, out-of-group AE healing (in a 25), Grace, instead arguing on details over a mechanic that has been around for MANY tiers of raiding, universally acknowledged as situationally OP but not unique (see: mistweavers), dictated by RNG and uncontrollable, and NOT the reason why there is a rather horrible looking nerfbat looking our way in 5.2?

Also, using Elegon as an example when you're in mostly a crit-haste setup, on a farm night, in your level of gear, in a guild group, is ridiculous. You need to stop it with the bad examples and random 'discoveries'.
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/23/2013 9:54 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
Agreed Zamboozle. Amusingly, just yesterday, Kaels was linking recount screens shots of the two disc priests in our two raid groups yesterday that demonstrate your point exactly.

Edit: I'll also note that Quess ranked on that fight. I'm not sure it's a good idea to hold that up as an example of what everybody should be doing. Moreover, it seems like a terrible idea to nerf the damage of atonement based on the high end of a fight that has a massive damage modifier. It would have been like asking for a nerf to Telluric Currents in cataclysm based on the mana return during the Madness encounter.
Edited by Taymage on 1/23/2013 9:57 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
17065
Following 'ranking healers' on WoL has never really been a thing for me. :< I mean I check them out, yes, but fact of the matter is, healing isn't about HPS...or rather, the focus shouldn't be on HPS or HPS done - and chances are the top ranking <any class> are doing something special to get there - and it's usually at the expense of the raid. I too, can POH/do the perfect disc rotation, on Garalon start to finish and pull out miles ahead of everyone and pull a rank on WOL. I too, can reforge my entire set, !@#$% haste/crit pieces, get DPS trinkets to 'OP' out damage modifier fights, and begged to not get chained to a tank on assignments so I can free smite. I can even ask my raid lead to lower the number of healers we bring to certain fights just so we look good on WOL. But what is the point of that outside peen size/nerf fodder/prove some sort of point? Why hardwire IF-POH for OMG MAX OUTPUT ON CD when there are already 3 puddles and a lightwell on the ground? Sometimes I think my mentality is just too last-generation for this new gen of number-centric individuals. /surgeon strike healer

....ahem. anyway, rerail from soapbox.

I'll love to see those SS >.>
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/23/2013 10:14 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/19/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Kaels
I liked all of your changes except one, Kaels: Hymn of Hope retaining its channel.

What, you think you can do other things while you sing? Blasphemy.


L 2 Totem of Divine Hymn.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
That sounds awfully high. It's definitely lower than that for me in Chastise. Although Disc's dps is somewhat lower, so I suppose it's plausible.


It made up 17.1% of Quess' DPS and around 20%ish in my own logs.

If 20% of your dps is coming from an ability that has 25% uptime, that is pretty much a damage cooldown. Am I missing something?

Also, Power Infusion.


You're right, I should have made it clearer. We don't have proper damage cooldowns that synergize with Atonement apart from PI. Even then, +20% on already low DPS isn't much to behold.
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90 Human Priest
17065
01/23/2013 10:14 AMPosted by Taymage

What, you think you can do other things while you sing? Blasphemy.


L 2 Totem of Divine Hymn.


Sing...AND DANCE.

Obviously Kaels has never been to a musical :D
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Following 'ranking healers' on WoL has never really been a thing for me. :< I mean I check them out, yes, but fact of the matter is, healing isn't about HPS...or rather, the focus shouldn't be on HPS or HPS done - and chances are the top ranking <any class> are doing something special to get there - and it's usually at the expense of the raid. I too, can POH/do the perfect disc rotation, on Garalon start to finish and pull out miles ahead of everyone and pull a rank on WOL. I too, can reforge my entire set, !@#$% haste/crit pieces, get DPS trinkets to 'OP' out damage modifier fights, and begged to not get chained to a tank on assignments so I can free smite. I can even ask my raid lead to lower the number of healers we bring to certain fights just so we look good on WOL. But what is the point of that outside peen size/nerf fodder/prove some sort of point? Why hardwire IF-POH for OMG MAX OUTPUT ON CD when there are already 3 puddles and a lightwell on the ground? Sometimes I think my mentality is just too last-generation for this new gen of number-centric individuals. /surgeon strike healer

....ahem. anyway, rerail from soapbox.

I'll love to see those SS >.>


I love you, have my babies! :-P
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90 Pandaren Priest
12925
Naw, I don't mind the hps from atonement. What I'm getting at is the ability to exclusively do atonement healing for entire encounters, even with hilariously low spirit and haste/crit stacking.


Boss A takes +200% increased damage during phase X. Solution? Make it so atonement spells continue to do +200% increased damage to boss A during phase X but not +200% increased healing. Problem solved. I'm quite surprised they haven't done something like this already. You don't have to nerf atonement spells or evangelism to fix this issue. That is something Blizzard would do.
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90 Worgen Priest
9630
So, on the gimmicky fights, people are reforging to crit/haste for those epic dps numbers? o.O
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/23/2013 10:55 AMPosted by Fluffychoo
So, on the gimmicky fights, people are reforging to crit/haste for those epic dps numbers? o.O


Yes. It's pretty common, actually.
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90 Worgen Priest
9630
01/23/2013 11:00 AMPosted by Tiriél
So, on the gimmicky fights, people are reforging to crit/haste for those epic dps numbers? o.O


Yes. It's pretty common, actually.


Should every priest be doing it? Am I gimping my raid by not? :p
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90 Human Priest
11345
The first rule of discipline damage is you do not talk about being 50% of a dps and 100% of a healer at the same time.

The second rule of discipline damage is you DO NOT TALK about being 50% of a dps and 100% of a healer at the same time.

/fightclub

(Everyone go back to spamming PoH please; nothing to see here.)
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
01/23/2013 11:07 AMPosted by Fluffychoo
Should every priest be doing it? Am I gimping my raid by not? :p


Not unless you're 2.5 healing the encounter. And definitely not if you're on 25m progression.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/18/2013 04:59 PMPosted by Virconia
I would of


Too the ground with a large yellow nerf bat.

Sorry didn't see anyone else say it so thought i'd get my chance.

In reality the easy fix would have been move SS to a 2 min CD and tone down PoH DA by 25%. But that would have been too easy.
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90 Human Priest
11345
On the topic of how I would have gone about nerfing disc... I certainly wouldn't have done this (from mmo-champion):

Power Word: Shield Discipline: Draws on the soul of the friendly target to shield them, absorbing [*321.1% of Spell Power + 33,338*;] damage. Lasts 15 sec. While the shield holds, spellcasting will not be interrupted by damage. Once shielded, the target cannot be shielded again for 15 sec.

PW:S spam goooooooo.
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