An angry tank rant... (Second Edition)

Almost exactly one year ago, I made a forum post called "An Angry Tank Rant" (linked here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3881709302 ) Some of you may remember it, and if you do that's awesome! But, I thought since a whole year has passed, that it was time to update the post just a bit.

As you can see, I linked the oroginal post for reference, but Im hoping that I won't need to actually cite it.

*ahem*

Introduction out of the way, please allow me to say that I still enjoy tanking. I have, in this past year, tanked a lot of dungeons and some raid content (mostly LFR) I still primarily tank on my paladin, but I have a druid, warrior and now a monk tank. I have two monks, actually, one to heal on and one to tank on. But thats another story.

Anyway, my low level monk just hit 20 and Im loving the hell out of it. It took me a bit to get used to the mechanics, since I had only toyed with one on on the beta. But I think Im gonna enjoy it. Its a fast, agile and deadly little class and I love playing a brewmaster.

However, there is a problem. A big problem. That problem is DPS players. In lower level dungeons, there seems to be a rampant concern with people (particuarly hunters) who like to make pulls for or off me, especially hunters who have tenacity pets with growl on. When I point this out, I get insulted and mocked for it.

My only real question about this is why? There shouldnt be a need to insult me because you're making my job more difficult. And, it shouldnt get to the point where I ever have to leave an instance, vote kick someone for it or even say "If you pull it, I will let you tank it."

This isnt a problem at higher levels, such as heroics, that I have found though. It tends to wane around level 65-70, except for the occassional death grip. At the heroic level, Ive seen on many runs where Im asked to make a pull that isn't needed, or yelled at for skipping a boss, etc.

Like a lot of tanks, I like to have a priority list when I go into an instance. Some bosses can usually wait until later for me because those mechanics are a bit rougher and some groups can have problems with them; particuarly if they are newly minted level 90's.

When I take the time to explain this, I am usually met with derogatory language and told that if I don't tank everything in order, then I can be kicked. How is that an appropriate response? Its not as though I am -never- going back for the boss.

But, I equate this to the lower level dps concerns because it seems to be in that same mentality range: The tank didn't pull this so they suck and I will pull it and make them tank.

DPS players, I have to ask you: Do you know -why- you have such long queues, especially at lower levels?

What I just described is 99% of the reason, at least on my part. I love tanking. I love the pressures I have to deal with such as learning mechanics, knowing when and how to pull, watching the healer's mana, the dps, etc. Its given me a few white hairs before as well as made me incredibly angry, but I still love it. Its one of the things in the game that I'm good at. (Ask my guild. They love when I tank.)

But, I don't like being pigeon holed into a "I am pulling everything!" role because of some DPS class who is frustrated over their long LFG queues. It makes me overwork, which makes the healer overwork and by extention can make you and the other dps overwork, too. So, stop.

Just.. stop.

I'm sure its a concept that my fellow tanks can understand, because I dont know a tank who has never experienced this. And, I dont know a tank who has never considered not tanking again because of it. Its just an unneeded stress on us to have to deal with it. :-/

Other than that, theres not much Im disliking about tanking anymore. I enjoy the new mechanics for tanking, because it reminds me Burning Crusade or Wrath when it was end game.

So, I suppose, in the end, that this wasn't much of a rant as much as it was me making the same point in 20 different ways. But, at least I linked the original thread for comparison!

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to a third update a year from now! Why not make a tradition out of it?

Also, as a personal note, happy birthday to my girlfriend! <3
Edited by Mineva on 1/7/2013 3:56 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
5180
had someone like that on one of my alts just pulling everything running off pulling more and so fourth. Got really bad to the point that if I ever saw that guy again I just leave he is a rusher.
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90 Night Elf Monk
8430
Really depends on which tank class I am playing as to whether or not I mind this, personally. If I am on warrior and someone keeps doing that I'll drop. It's too much of a PITA to pick-up all the mobs on that toon. On the other hand, when I play my paladin, I like it. Just saves me the trouble of pulling the other group. Strangely I haven't had the problem on my low-level monk alt, but then again I chuck barrels into the entire room so maybe I'm not leaving them anything left to pull. =P
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90 Draenei Paladin
10380
01/07/2013 03:50 AMPosted by Mineva
DPS players, I have to ask you


World of Warcraft Forums -> Class Roles -> Tanking


What are you doing here exactly?
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
01/07/2013 03:50 AMPosted by Mineva
But, I don't like being pigeon holed into a "I am pulling everything!" role because of some DPS class who is frustrated over their long LFG queues. It makes me overwork, which makes the healer overwork and by extention can make you and the other dps overwork, too. So, stop.


You say "overworked", some of us say fun.
Edited by Ðemolition on 1/7/2013 11:38 AM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
9400
I bet youre like marking sheeps and freeze traps and the hunters like "WTF this is scarlet monastery I can solo this, pull more mr tank and show some skills!"
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11770
Some people get frustrated with it, some people don't.

I hate when DPS pull for me when I'm tanking, or for the tank when I'm healing, because either way, it makes my job harder. Depending on what class I'm tanking as, it may be simple to pick up the adds off of the DPS that pulled...and if so, then no big deal, even if it is aggravating. Even more so when picking the adds back up is not so simple for whatever reason.

It's pissing me off more lately as a healer though, because not all tanks are good about getting that aggro back immediately, meaning I have to panic heal damage the DPS shouldn't have been taking in the first place.
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1 Human Rogue
0
01/07/2013 03:50 AMPosted by Mineva
Like a lot of tanks, I like to have a priority list when I go into an instance. Some bosses can usually wait until later for me because those mechanics are a bit rougher and some groups can have problems with them; particuarly if they are newly minted level 90's.


What bosses are skippable in 5-mans anyway, besides armsmaster harlan (who is a cakewalk).

Trying to skip a boss in a 90 heroic would honestly annoy me too.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
You might be able to skip the minesweeper boss in siege?

But padding meters on that 3 pack pull is fun anyway.

Other 3 that come to mind being possible maybe (ie I don't know for a fact theres a closed door) are first boss in shado-pan/SM monestary and Striker in gate of the setting sun

I've never really thought of skipping a 5-man boss in MoP since JP are at such a premium and its free shards.
Edited by Ðemolition on 1/7/2013 5:55 PM PST
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01/07/2013 11:57 AMPosted by Okris
I bet youre like marking sheeps and freeze traps and the hunters like "WTF this is scarlet monastery I can solo this, pull more mr tank and show some skills!"


Nah. I did those on the beta, so I knew where the pulls were. But, if Im running guildies through, I may tend to slow down and show how puls need to be done from time to time. Generally, I make large, fast pulls if I know that the healer and dps can handle it. Its just the groups that I can see that can't handle it that I take my time and avoid wipes as much as possible.

01/07/2013 05:39 PMPosted by Willinraven
Like a lot of tanks, I like to have a priority list when I go into an instance. Some bosses can usually wait until later for me because those mechanics are a bit rougher and some groups can have problems with them; particuarly if they are newly minted level 90's.


What bosses are skippable in 5-mans anyway, besides armsmaster harlan (who is a cakewalk).

Trying to skip a boss in a 90 heroic would honestly annoy me too.


You'd be surprised what you can skip bosswise and then go back and take down later. Believe it or not, not every person in eery group wants to kill everything there. Ive been in more than one group where it was stated that they wanted to get in and out and avoid stuff. Dungeons have had optional bosses for a long time now, so why it'd be a big concern that one is and is treated as such I don't know.
Edited by Mineva on 1/7/2013 6:34 PM PST
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1 Human Rogue
0
01/07/2013 05:51 PMPosted by Ðemolition
I've never really thought of skipping a 5-man boss in MoP since JP are at such a premium and its free shards.


That, and the dungeons are so short to begin with, compared with Cataclysm ones anyway.
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Oh boy! I sure do have a doozy to add to the list of things people do in dungeons.

I ust rage quit a Maraudon run on my monk tank (mid 30's right now) because of a wipe that I was blamed for. Now, to understand this and how it happened, this was the portion of the dungeon with Noxxion and Razorlash, and the wipe happened just past the two groups of slimes and wandering Dryads.

All of the mobs that were part of the pull were killed except for a single dryad who was at 5% HP. I used roll to move down the hallway, to pick up the group of elementals that were around the corner and to my surprise, no one followed me.

So, I looked at the map, and saw that everyone else in the dungeon was running what appeared to be the opposite direction from me; which to those of you who know this instance well, is in the direction of 2-3 more slime tyoe mobs.

I, of course, died trying to handle the elementals and move fast enough to get to the rest of the group since I could see them taking damage. However, they all ran en masse towards me and arrived just as I fell dead.

The healer then proceeded to say in party chat that if I kept running off, I would get no more heals. His statement was finished just as I saw a wave of slime mobs run up behind him and the DPS and start killing them.

So, I clarified that I had gone down the hallway, and no one followed me even though I had been in eyesight the entire time. The slimes, etc that were killing the group were not ones that I had pulled (see the skipping mobs argument above) and had instead aggroed everyone who ran over towards them.

I was met with responses varying from being a bad tank, to needing to kill everything that I pull, to, again, running off on my own.

So, I reclarified what had taken place and was able to provide details on pulls, the number of mobs, their location etc as well as pointing out their movements on the map and visibly from where I was in the hallway at this particular time.

In short, I repeated in a single paragraph for the second time exactly what took place.

So, I was told by the healer that I was a bad tank and that he would refuse to heal me the rest of the run, as well as a repeated chorus of statemets after the initial explanation.

So, I left. And now I ask all of you, if one person is able to provide a detailed version of an event and you are not, does mob mentality rule here or something? I'm not used to being blamed for the mistakes of others in this way, and its honestly not something I have encountered on more than maybe 3-5 occassions.
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90 Human Warrior
16560
01/07/2013 06:48 AMPosted by Lightning
Really depends on which tank class I am playing as to whether or not I mind this, personally. If I am on warrior and someone keeps doing that I'll drop. It's too much of a PITA to pick-up all the mobs on that toon. On the other hand, when I play my paladin, I like it. Just saves me the trouble of pulling the other group. Strangely I haven't had the problem on my low-level monk alt, but then again I chuck barrels into the entire room so maybe I'm not leaving them anything left to pull. =P


Thats funny because when I tank on my warrior I can handle that kind of behavior without a second thought. Even when I feel like, "if you pull it, you tank it" I end up just tanking it by incidental threat I generate pulling the mob off the guy. But when I'm on my paladin I really mind because I have issues because of the PITA factor.
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90 Human Warrior
6580
01/07/2013 05:28 PMPosted by Rivaeon
It's pissing me off more lately as a healer though, because not all tanks are good about getting that aggro back immediately, meaning I have to panic heal damage the DPS shouldn't have been taking in the first place.


Let them die. And make them run back to their body.

And ftr healers take the same kind of abuse, possibly more. If the tank decides he can pull the whole room and the healer can't keep up, or the DPS is trigger happy, it's because the healer is FAIL.
Edited by Aamish on 2/13/2013 10:06 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
8880
I think I had one bad group tanking almost the entire way to 80.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
This feels like way more than a month ago
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
World of Warcraft is full of people who aren't polite and sometimes aren't very good, news at 11.

The 5 man where you're on the wall, I had a dps complain because I couldn't hold threat when one of the flyers attached to his back... I got booted for it.

Just learn to pull so fast the healer is complaining.
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75 Gnome Priest
5360
Low level healer just here for a visit. I started back with WoW a few weeks ago and I've been leveling completely by healing random dungeon groups. It's great fun to see all the old dungeons again.

Yesterday I had a Warrior tank who was a master. He could pull a ton of mobs and keep them under control. Today I had a Monk who was a mess. He tanked with the mentality of a DPS, mobs everywhere and he didn't care, he was just spinning joyfully like a kid on a merry-go-round.

My advice to tanks is to pull what you can handle. Pull a little at a time or pull a lot as long as you can deal with it.

The problem is when you get tanks who want to look cool by pulling whole rooms of mobs. But they get in over their head. They can handle 5 but they pull 15. Big ego and low skill is a bad combo for a tank.

Practically everybody has the same gear now when leveling new characters; a bunch of BOA and the rest dungeon blues. So when one tank can pull a dozen mobs and his health goes down in a predictable manner while another tank pulls a dozen and instantly spikes below half health it tells me who has skill and who doesn't.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12820
Just commented on this in another thread.

I like to pull at a comfortable pace. I really like big pulls...IF the dps cooperate AND the heals can keep up. If that can happen, then I'll do big pulls, but I tend to ramp them up as the instance goes. I don't start by pulling half the mobs before the first boss.

Also, something not mentioned, yet.

I have this thing called a farm. I grow food on it. Gives me a buff. I like that. I don't per se *need* this buff, but I like to have it, especially if I'm going to be doing big pulls. So it really annoys me if someone pulls the second I phase in as if I have to pick up that mob pack. I've gotten to the point where I don't. I'll phase right back out.

I mean, is it so bad to be in an instance long enough to eat a buff food for 10 seconds and say hello to everyone prior to pulling that first pack? 10 seconds? How bad is it that some folks are too impatient to even type, "gogogogogo" anymore?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12810
01/08/2013 06:42 AMPosted by Mineva
So, I left. And now I ask all of you, if one person is able to provide a detailed version of an event and you are not, does mob mentality rule here or something? I'm not used to being blamed for the mistakes of others in this way, and its honestly not something I have encountered on more than maybe 3-5 occassions


I'm what would be considered "old school" in that, when I'm healing, I have this invisible leash that attaches me to my tank's bum (allowing a safe aoe distance for particular fights.) I don't leave my tank. The ONLY reason I could conceive of leaving a tank is if said tank is triyng to rush way ahead of mobs he's not getting aggro on and leaving dps to die to them. Under those circumstances, I'll do my damnedest to keep the dps up to catch up to the tank.

Short of a pat coming up your nether regions - there's simply no reason for dps to be on mobs that weren't tank pulled. EVEN IF THE TANK GOES THE WRONG WAY from being inexperienced in a new dungeon - wisdom says we survive better if we stick together and say "Hey, not sure if you know this dungeon, but there's a boss just to the left behind us we need to grab."

I don't consider it even mob mentality so much as no mentality. There's no thought, no consideration, and no group dynamic going on with some people. They just do what they think they can get away with, and to heck with actually working together. They don't care one bit about anyone else in game, and don't even have the nuts to offer up a pretense of it, either.
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