Err... ilvl 486 requirement for TK LFR?

90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
01/08/2013 05:18 AMPosted by Dorzarn
But I DONT care about progression. LFR to see content is fine with me. 486 is asking too much.


It's 90 ilvls of upgrade. If you logged out in your PvE gear I could show you the best way of getting it.
90 Human Paladin
12560
01/08/2013 02:04 AMPosted by Corstus
Let's not forget about item upgrades, with enough valor you can get every 483 piece up to 491, and 476 piece to 484.


Well you better hurry on those upgrades, since item upgrading won't be available in 5.2.
90 Night Elf Hunter
4560
Yes, you are missing something.

Upgrade your current LFR gear and buy VP pieces.

I'll bet the requirement goes down to 380 before it goes live though.
90 Human Paladin
14455
01/08/2013 04:58 AMPosted by Caali
Because the smaller you make the pool of players available for ToT the longer the que times are going to be. Make lfr 490 ilvl, I don't care. It's just the higher the ilvl, the smaller the player pool, and thus longer que times.


I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week.

Hell, look at things right now with the LFR queue, more and more people are running it, so my queue wait has skyrocketed.

I'd be fine waiting almost an hour if I'm being grouped with people who took the time and put effort into their character.
90 Human Hunter
12535

Upgrade your current LFR gear and buy VP pieces.


As stated, this is not an acceptable answer, as according to blue posters, we are supposed to be able to progress without dailies, which means no rep gear, which means no valor gear.
90 Worgen Death Knight
5195
New content is not meant to available to every single person when it launches. If that was the case, then people would be capping gear very early, and would either have to wait on the next patch/xpac or get bored and stop playing.
In addition, if you are not interested in raid-progression then why are you in such a rush to boost your ilevel? What is the rush? Even with the new patch, if your gear level is not holding you back from being an asset to a raid team, then you have nothing to worry about. If anything, it it just more content for you to explore once you've completed the old content.

It's been almost 3 months and LFR HoF and ToES still isn't available to a very large portion of non-raiders. Your point has no merit.


We are talking about a game with a 8 year life span, and you are complaining about 3 months of people being unable to access content? A big factor in that is peoples commitment to the grind, and the amount of time they invest each week. Its pretty obvious that WoW caters to the people willing to place a good amount of time into grinding and progression. People play at difference paces, and therefore will not access the content at the same time.
Once again, if you are not interested in raiding, then why does the rate at which content is available matter so much? Especially when you have not capped your gear for this patch. This is a game of longevity and small rewards over a long period of time. Stop being impatient
90 Human Paladin
14455
01/08/2013 05:32 AMPosted by Reinhilde
As stated, this is not an acceptable answer, as according to blue posters, we are supposed to be able to progress without dailies, which means no rep gear, which means no valor gear.


Do the math, you can exceed 486 iLevel with only LFR gear and upgrading said LFR gear.

Will it be slow? Of course it will be, and you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

Dailies are 100% optional, so, which options do you want:

- Gearing ONLY via LFR and taking months to reach 486
- Gearing through T14 LFR, 5.0 dailies, 5.1 dailies, 5.2 dailies, 5.2 scenarios, or even 5.2 crafted gear

The option to go from one LFR tier to the next without any dailies exists, it's just slow, as it should be. Common sense should tell you that when you limit the sources of gear, it will slow down your gear progression.

I'm sick and tired of lazy people like you demanding hand outs from Blizzard and refusing to put any damn effort into your character.

Just because it is LFR doesn't mean you shouldn't be expected to at least try.
55 Night Elf Death Knight
90
My main is a resto druid. I'm exalted with all the Panda factions so optional rep is no problem for her.

Problem is now we're stuck due to a few guildies leaving. We need to rework our group. I have been trying to gear my priest for raiding, which is scheduled to resume this coming weekend.

After a month+ of banging out heroics/Sha and LFR (Galleon does not exist), I only have gotten geared in half of heroic level gear. I have gotten exactly zero LFR drops. I've even bought a few JP pieces that were upgrades (lol) and am still wearing those. I have 1 valor piece and am debating how to spend the valor I have now.

And sorry, I'm not dropping 18k on i476 AH gear. The very, very few MSV pugs I see forming require i485.

RNG is RNG. I definitely don't want to do dailies all over again. Golden Lotus and Shado Pan can go DIAF.

At this rate though, I won't be seeing 5.2 anytime when it releases, unless I take my druid somewhere that needs one. I'd rather stay with my friends though. It is not possible to earn the valor and JP upgrade all my crappier pieces in the amount of time I have.

I don't want to be carried, we need a tank healer. I don't mind putting forth effort and some grinding. But the RNG has just been brutal this time around.

Done venting now :)

Go ahead call me lazy/baddie/waste of biomass etc, I don't care. You obviously have better luck and more time and gold than some others do, and we know that obviously that makes you a better human being than those of us with bad RNG.
11 Troll Hunter
0
Letsee if i can be helpful...

Since they added 80 buttons and made BM the top dps spec, I have been benched by my guild for too low dps. With blizz making regular mode raiding the red headed stepchild, anyone who isnt perfect nowadays will be seeing less regular mode raiding and be forced into the "casual" category. Thats where I am, and if you choose not to raid for real, youre where i am in terms of gear options.

My main is 487 ilevel with the junk in my backs and 484 equipped. Ill be wiping on LFR ThK day one. How did i get here? I did the work. If you arrent raiding, and you care about getting the best gear you can possibly get, what else do you have to do besides dailys? You have to sit in Qs for LFR and dungeons, the only other options for gear, so get out there and do your dailys and hate them the whole time, but do them. Im exalted with every rep but prince. Its what I was doing while I saw all the achieves ding from MSV and HoF from my guildmates. Newsflash: If you do your dailys, one day THEY WILL BE DONE.

If you finish Klaxxi and Golden lotus you get a FREE piece of 489 gear. Two slots down. You should be trying to get a purple weapon from the heroics if there is one for you, for hunters its Gate of the setting sun every day once at least, specific Q. Thankfully its a really fast one. That thing is upgradeable by JUSTICE. It wont get you over 486, but with the luck im having getting any other weapon, having that as my lowest ilevel piece is a godsend.

Buy them domination point 496s. Keep running LFRs for the valor. One random dungeon and scenario a day. upgrade your highest ilevel epics first. You can do it, and Id like to know what you have been doing for three months if you arrent already near where I am now. I thought I was bad.
90 Pandaren Monk
9980
Do the math, you can exceed 486 iLevel with only LFR gear and upgrading said LFR gear.

Will it be slow? Of course it will be, and you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

Dailies are 100% optional, so, which options do you want:

- Gearing ONLY via LFR and taking months to reach 486
- Gearing through T14 LFR, 5.0 dailies, 5.1 dailies, 5.2 dailies, 5.2 scenarios, or even 5.2 crafted gear

The option to go from one LFR tier to the next without any dailies exists, it's just slow, as it should be. Common sense should tell you that when you limit the sources of gear, it will slow down your gear progression.

I'm sick and tired of lazy people like you demanding hand outs from Blizzard and refusing to put any damn effort into your character.

Just because it is LFR doesn't mean you shouldn't be expected to at least try.


/intellectual checkmate
90 Human Hunter
12535

Blizzard has said that LFR is its own progression and intended to allow players who are unable to join a normal/heroic raid group to see the content. Blizzard has said that participation in dailies is completely optional and non-participation will not hold back anyone from participation in LFR. Once the requirement for MSV is met, then gear from LFR alone will allow you to progress in LFR.

Mathematically, it is true. The reality is that gear progression will be so slow for most players unless they participate in other content that they won't get getting in to see the Thunder King until Siege of Orgrimmar is out, which is still 3 content tiers down the road.

Why do I have LFR queues of over one hour on my DPS toons for TES and HoF, and yet less than 20 minutes for MSV? Because the majority of players using LFR alone for gear progression are still stuck in MSV trying to get gear for HoF/TES. We're 3 months into the expansion and they still can't hit 470 from LFR alone because RNG from personal loot is so bad the items they need aren't dropping - and for certain slots don't even exist in MSV. Only 6 chances to get gear a week does not offer progression when each of those chances only offers a 1 in 6 chance of loot dropping, and more often than not that loot is something the player already has or can't use for an item level upgrade.

Blizzard is attempting force players into doing other content to populate their world and give their other customers the illusion that WoW is a happy active game. They told us we'd get options and yet when the alleged options don't offer equivalent value, they lose any sense of being an option and become a do it or else.

Non-raid gear should not offer a better item level than raid gear when item level is only relevant to raid content. You need a 470 item level to participate in LFR to get a chance at 483 gear. Wouldn't it then make sense to require a 476 item level to do the dailies, which offer 489 gear? And yet no, there is no item level requirement for dailies to get superior rewards.

It's no wonder that my friends list is filled with people who logged on for the first couple of weeks of MoP, said "this game blows" and then havne't been back since. Rewards aren't consistent with the skill required to earn them. Crappy content blocks access to interesting content. And Blizzard continues to up the item level on items rewarded through dailies while MSV still won't give a player the item level they need to advance into TES/HOF without massive RNG good luck.

Blizzard, just remove raiding from the game. You've made your point clear. You don't consider raiding worthwhile content while dailies are the most fantastic thing you've ever invented. Just stop wasting development time and manpower on raids so you can trim your budget and focus on those awesome dailies you're trying to push everyone into doing.

For those of you who aren't wonderful with math, here a sample breakdown of how fast you'll get geared enough to hit that 486 item level once you make the 470 item level requirement to queue into HoF/TES:

You have 16 gear slots to fill, assuming you don't have a 2h weapon.
LFR gives you about a 16% chance of winning an item, so assuming the loot you get breaks down perfectly so you get it 16% of the time and each item is something to fill another slot you need to upgrade, you'll need 96 boss kills (90 if you use a 2h weapon). That's essentially 10 weeks of HoF/TES, assuming all goes perfectly.

Now that you have 16 483 items, you'll need to get 7 of those items up to 491 to hit 486. to get those 7 upgrades, you'll need 10500 VP. If you're still only running LFR, you're getting 450 VP per week if you run all 5 parts. That's almost 24 weeks to get up to 486.

Can you now understand why Blizzard is full of crap when they tell players that you can advance through LFR through LFR alone? And that's when drops fall out right for a player. More often than not, they're duplicates of items the player has already received or share a slot with another item (ie getting off tier legs and a tier token for legs). Players will still being trying to get into HoF/TES when Thunder King comes out, and still wont' even be close to geared for Thunder King when the raid after that comes out.

They're locked out of content despite Blizzard's assurances that they won't need to participate in other content to progress.

Think about it - buying a new item usually yields a 13 to 26 point item upgrade for as little as 1250 VP if you do dailies. VP upgrades only yield 8 points for 1500 VP.

Blizzard is obviously trying to force players out of raiding and into dailies for gear. They need to stop wasting time, stop developing raid content and just make everything dailies.


Was an intellectual checkmate. Not that dribble posted 2 above.
90 Pandaren Monk
9980
i don't know what to tell people like you

you WANT the gear
but you don't want to fill the progression of GETTING the gear

so basically, what you're saying.. is that as soon as content comes out.. it should be instantly available for everyone

so more or less, we're back to the "no winners, everyone gets a trophy" idea

yeah.. I'm sorry, but if you WANT to do something.. learn to DO what's required to earn it

things aren't handed out for free, that's called welfare
90 Human Warlock
17825
I don't want the bar on the new LFR to be set too low so that undergeared people screw up runs, but 486 seems excessive. THe current top LFR is 483... a character in a full outfit of the previous tier of LFR should be able to instantly queue up for the next tier, so 483 should be the absolute cap on what the LFR queue requirement should be. In the interest of a tiny bit of liniency and to stick with round numbers, 480 seems a totally reasonable ilv requirement.
Blizzard has said that LFR is its own progression and intended to allow players who are unable to join a normal/heroic raid group to see the content. Blizzard has said that participation in dailies is completely optional and non-participation will not hold back anyone from participation in LFR. Once the requirement for MSV is met, then gear from LFR alone will allow you to progress in LFR.Mathematically, it is true. The reality is that gear progression will be so slow for most players unless they participate in other content that they won't get getting in to see the Thunder King until Siege of Orgrimmar is out, which is still 3 content tiers down the road.Why do I have LFR queues of over one hour on my DPS toons for TES and HoF, and yet less than 20 minutes for MSV? Because the majority of players using LFR alone for gear progression are still stuck in MSV trying to get gear for HoF/TES. We're 3 months into the expansion and they still can't hit 470 from LFR alone because RNG from personal loot is so bad the items they need aren't dropping - and for certain slots don't even exist in MSV. Only 6 chances to get gear a week does not offer progression when each of those chances only offers a 1 in 6 chance of loot dropping, and more often than not that loot is something the player already has or can't use for an item level upgrade.Blizzard is attempting force players into doing other content to populate their world and give their other customers the illusion that WoW is a happy active game. They told us we'd get options and yet when the alleged options don't offer equivalent value, they lose any sense of being an option and become a do it or else.Non-raid gear should not offer a better item level than raid gear when item level is only relevant to raid content. You need a 470 item level to participate in LFR to get a chance at 483 gear. Wouldn't it then make sense to require a 476 item level to do the dailies, which offer 489 gear? And yet no, there is no item level requirement for dailies to get superior rewards. It's no wonder that my friends list is filled with people who logged on for the first couple of weeks of MoP, said "this game blows" and then havne't been back since. Rewards aren't consistent with the skill required to earn them. Crappy content blocks access to interesting content. And Blizzard continues to up the item level on items rewarded through dailies while MSV still won't give a player the item level they need to advance into TES/HOF without massive RNG good luck.Blizzard, just remove raiding from the game. You've made your point clear. You don't consider raiding worthwhile content while dailies are the most fantastic thing you've ever invented. Just stop wasting development time and manpower on raids so you can trim your budget and focus on those awesome dailies you're trying to push everyone into doing.For those of you who aren't wonderful with math, here a sample breakdown of how fast you'll get geared enough to hit that 486 item level once you make the 470 item level requirement to queue into HoF/TES:You have 16 gear slots to fill, assuming you don't have a 2h weapon.LFR gives you about a 16% chance of winning an item, so assuming the loot you get breaks down perfectly so you get it 16% of the time and each item is something to fill another slot you need to upgrade, you'll need 96 boss kills (90 if you use a 2h weapon). That's essentially 10 weeks of HoF/TES, assuming all goes perfectly.Now that you have 16 483 items, you'll need to get 7 of those items up to 491 to hit 486. to get those 7 upgrades, you'll need 10500 VP. If you're still only running LFR, you're getting 450 VP per week if you run all 5 parts. That's almost 24 weeks to get up to 486.Can you now understand why Blizzard is full of crap when they tell players that you can advance through LFR through LFR alone? And that's when drops fall out right for a player. More often than not, they're duplicates of items the player has already received or share a slot with another item (ie getting off tier legs and a tier token for legs). Players will still being trying to get into HoF/TES when Thunder King comes out, and still wont' even be close to geared for Thunder King when the raid after that comes out.They're locked out of content despite Blizzard's assurances that they won't need to participate in other content to progress.Think about it - buying a new item usually yields a 13 to 26 point item upgrade for as little as 1250 VP if you do dailies. VP upgrades only yield 8 points for 1500 VP. Blizzard is obviously trying to force players out of raiding and into dailies for gear. They need to stop wasting time, stop developing raid content and just make everything dailies.


This post is the only checkmate I see.
90 Human Paladin
14455
Lets just go all the way and give everyone full LFR gear each time they go in there and lower the T15 LFR requirement to 470. I mean, it's not about putting work into your character, it's about being handed content on a silver platter, right?

01/08/2013 06:05 AMPosted by Dorzarn
This post is the only checkmate I see.


That's because you refuse to accept any solution that doesn't involve welfare in-game.
Edited by Tikaru on 1/8/2013 6:07 AM PST
90 Night Elf Priest
7865
Just buy the new honor gear
90 Worgen Death Knight
5195
^^^
Last time I checked, this was a game with LONG-TERM subscribers who take solace in the fact that with every reward is a greater sense of achievements than being handed what you want.

I will bring this up for the OP once more. Why does the rate at which your ilevel progresses matter if you are not interested in raiding? Over time all that content will EVENTUALLY be available if you invest the time and effort into doing the necessarily things to obtain the items. IF no one is relying on you to have top notch gear then your rate of progression is irrelevant.
14 Draenei Shaman
0
i don't know what to tell people like you

you WANT the gear
but you don't want to fill the progression of GETTING the gear

so basically, what you're saying.. is that as soon as content comes out.. it should be instantly available for everyone

so more or less, we're back to the "no winners, everyone gets a trophy" idea

yeah.. I'm sorry, but if you WANT to do something.. learn to DO what's required to earn it

things aren't handed out for free, that's called welfare


I am not quite sure where you are getting any of your points from.

I think what most of the people who do lfr exclusively expect is that the drops in lfr would be balanced to bring you to the next tier when that next tier is introduced. And that it would be a natural progression. Sure they would not be as powerful as the people doing normals or even dallies, but that is fine. Sure they will not win the race of fully epic'd out. But that is fine too.

I think the concept here is, yes the normal lfr person is not min/maxing their time. But then again it is LFR. Not normal raids, not heroics, not being brought on stage at Blizzcon and competing against other raid teams. It's LFR.

Lfr is beer and pretzels raiding. Lfr is saturday afternoon community raiding. Lfr is just for fun and laughs raiding. It is the barest minimum of raiding.

Understand? Getting all high and mighty about lfr gear is the equivalent of getting high and mighty about your inter office softball league. No one really cares.
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