Voidbinders Taking a Break in 5.2

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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12430
01/14/2013 12:32 PMPosted by Joynal
Hint: Its because you are gonna rep grind rather you like it or not.

I think most players will just quit rather than rep grind again. It was miserable the first time around. Only a masochist would put up with it again.


It's been stated that the reputation required for the new Valor gear will be obtained by killing raid mobs. Valor from raiding. Rep from raiding. No dailies required. Get it?

Yo dawg, we heard you like getting gear so we put some rep in your raid so you can get gear while you get gear.
94 Orc Death Knight
6000
Should be... upgrade old gear or buy new gear. Way less confusing than what you said.
90 Human Paladin
10215
01/14/2013 10:00 AMPosted by Bashiok
… I’m not convinced. I think they’re just homesick for their ‘space mummy’ families


I LOVE YOU BASHIOK
90 Orc Warlock
10905
Here's my question, are there new weapons outside of the raid?

also liked what this person said

01/14/2013 10:24 AMPosted by Maigraith
I'm generally welcoming of change to the game, but I'd rather have some stability than be wondering when a feature is and isn't going to be available.
Edited by Mohrrk on 1/14/2013 1:47 PM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
6800
01/14/2013 10:12 AMPosted by Nathanbp
Great, please never bring them back. Being forced to cap valor every week forever is pretty terrible, I'd like to be able to have a life besides WoW. Or at least to be able to play an alt.
No one was forcing you to do anything. That argument is so lame crutches don't even help. You were CHOOSING to max your gear.

Bashiok - this is a bad move and will likely see me play less not out of any "wah, wah" sentiment but because it means I have one less avenue for improving my alts. I repped up on this toon as it's a main and LFRed so I have a mix of LFR and VP gear. That's fine.

But my hunter alt now will have no way to spend VP unless I repeat the rep grind on her - I can't just do what I was planning and LFR weekly on her and then upgrade the LFR epics with VP. So, guess what? I'll LFR on her and then stop for the week.

Heroics? Why? They won't help me get to the 5.2 LFR ilevel requirement. 5.1 LFR? As long as the queues are reasonable, sure, but given that she's DPS and that I imagine that participation in the 5.1 LFRs will decline, the queue times will at some point become annoyingly long. Rep her up? I could, but she's an LFR alt. I'm not motivated to min-max her as a serious raider since I'm not doing that stuff right now. So... instead of running stuff to get a bit more VP so I can upgrade that 476 LFR piece and then eventually perhaps the 5.2 LFR pieces, I'll just log out.

The problem is that you've made this decision on the assumption that the people who were using the upgrade system will all just run the new raids and ignored people like me who play alts that we don't intend to raid with. All because it is, apparently, too hard for raiders to actually figure out when it's better to buy new gear vs upgrade older gear.
90 Pandaren Priest
8320
01/14/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Melenkor


So what you're saying is- the rep grind is required?
You could just do the raid instead, for your raid quality gear.


Oh trust me, I get that. But I'm hoping this isn't another one of those tiers where they conveniently "forget" certain pieces of gear (like they did with MV- if you didn't grind the rep, you had to wait til the other two raids came out).

Sorry, I should have clarified.
90 Human Warlock
8290
Keep them out all the time.

Hard gearing choices are fine. Makes gearing more interesting than just hitting up the latest and greatest. Also little thought seems to be put in for the people with new 90s gearing up in dungeons. Bringing dungeon drops to 471 was great and not having that option in every other future patch is just a massive step back.
90 Human Paladin
9735
So....

If the new LFRs are going to take.. what was that again? 483?

And current LFR only gives 476...

You are forced to spam current LFR _and_ buy Dominance/Shieldwall Epics + Maybe Zandalari stuff before even touching the new LFR?

Also, if you're a late-comer into LFR.... you cannot upgrade your 463 items (especially your weapon!)

Basically, we're going to punish latecomers because they didn't get there fast enough before Patch 5.2 comes live?

I think Blizz needs to hand out some more 472 weapons in that case, because this stinks. Trying to get a 472 weapon out of Raid Finder/Scenarios/Heroics is a pain in the butt and they never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever stick weapons on Valor Vendors. Oh God No, that'd be taboo, right? Can't Possibly be having players being able to find decent weapon upgrades without weeks of praying to the RNG gods, could we?

Edit: I suppose there's Honor weapons, but uh... why should PvE people be forced to PvP for their weapons?
Edited by Hirai on 1/14/2013 2:05 PM PST
100 Tauren Paladin
13510
01/14/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Nurv
Bringing dungeon drops to 471 was great and not having that option in every other future patch is just a massive step back.


This a thousand times. I've only got about 2-3 toons to 90 so far between leveling/dailies and dungeon grinding. I still have 8 more classes to level and this feature will help a lot, not having it in future patches randomly is dreadful. What else am I to spend JP on? Vendor gear that is worse than heroic gear upgraded?
90 Gnome Priest
17070
01/14/2013 01:37 PMPosted by Cyteen

I think most players will just quit rather than rep grind again. It was miserable the first time around. Only a masochist would put up with it again.


It's been stated that the reputation required for the new Valor gear will be obtained by killing raid mobs. Valor from raiding. Rep from raiding. No dailies required. Get it?

Yo dawg, we heard you like getting gear so we put some rep in your raid so you can get gear while you get gear.

Where's the blue post for this? I even checking the stickied threds in the PTR form for information about patch content. Nothing.

I see blues talking up dailies time and time again. They don't talk about raid rep.

I'm really tired of Blizzard using Twitter as their official form of communication with their players. I play WoW, not Twitter. Annoucements regarding game changes belong on the Blizzard wesbite first, not sitting at some other website.

As for getting gear for raiding, that's the way it should be. Valor was the gap filler for those items that simply would not drop in raid. Forcing players out of raiding and into other content to get filler gear does nothing to make the game more enjoyable when that content is pathetic.

But then raiding is dying anyway. Soon the game will be nothing but LFR and dailies. There's been great discussion about players always taking the easy way out and that's why 25man raiding is dying. 10man is dying too now but no one seems to notice that. There's a fraction of the number of players participating in normal and heroic mode raids now that were participating in Cata because they can get gear that's only fractionally less powerful than that which drops in normal and heroics mode without putting in any effort at all. They just have to zone in. The downward spiral continues.
90 Human Priest
8670
I don't get why you didn't just remove the ability to upgrade valor items.

Upgrading JP gear is the best way to get your alts into the 470 ilvl raids. Without that ability to upgrade heroic gear to 471, we're stuck grinding rep on alts, buying expensive AH gear, or PvPing and using conquest gear and hoping to get extremely lucky with 476 drops from MSV.

Also, speaking of PvP, why does a new raid tier mean PvPers have to lose their ability to upgrade their gear as well?

Keep the vendors but remove valor upgrades until 5.3 IMO.
Edited by Manabar on 1/14/2013 2:14 PM PST
90 Human Mage
13505
I think you're fear mongering a bit there. raiding isn't even close to dying.
100 Dwarf Hunter
20190
01/14/2013 10:15 AMPosted by Maximusrex
I thought upgrades where supposed to be the primary outlet for points, but it wasn't ready for launch and was therefore added in 5.1, now its going away and we are being given vendor epic again.

This is part of my concern. It's feeling like this is the expansion of rapid changes that make any sort of gear-related choices hard things to bank on -- from the early item level changes on JP and Honor gear, to the removal of item upgrading entirely (and not just for the new gear) for an entire patch.

Also, unless the new gear has a significantly higher item level than the last tier (i.e. LFR gear being over ilvl 500, and the usual +13 for normal and +26 for heroic), the gearing choices are still going to be horrid because you'll already have some upgraded items (and this problem will occur in every tier from now on, unless item upgrading is entirely phased out), which then you have to sit down, compared two almost-identical in item level pieces of gear, and decide if one is itemized better, gives a better tier bonus, has more sockets, etc. before actually calling if it's an upgrade or not, rather than being able to almost-guarantee (except in rare outlier cases, like some trinkets) that a new drop is better than your previous-tier item.

Specifically concerning weapons, weapon drops in the new raid will also need to be at least ten item levels higher than a fully-upgraded Sha-Touched T14 weapon of equivalent raid difficulty (18 item levels higher than a default weapon -- i.e., at least 501 for LFR, 514 for normal, and 527 for heroic), or will need to be able to have the Eye of the Black Prince and the Crystalized gems socketed to them. If this isn't the case, than anyone who did manage to fully-upgrade and socket their weapon in time will have a better weapon available to them than anyone who didn't could hope to ever acquire.
90 Human Paladin
11605
PvP Feedback - Thank you for removing this, and I wish to never see it return.

It was not fun to plug my chest in, hit upgrade twice, then walk away only to come back one week later and preform the same process on my legs. It added nothing to the game besides a larger gear gap between mains and alt or new comers.

If the system does come back in 5.3, please make it only for JP and Honor gear, Conquest and Valor can be spent on better more vanity items.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10095
If this is implemented as described, this will probably be the straw that breaks the camel's back for me... and 2 raid teams will lose healers.

I am already liking this expansion's mechanics and story less than any prior expansion (started in 2004). I keep holding on in hopes that it will improve, but I've been at "end of Cataclysm" levels of burnout since about 2 months after release.

I won't bother to rant about the apparent confusion of "tedium" with "fun" that has overtaken the Blizzard development team - others have done that in spades, and it appears that it's being ignored. I will say that I find Blizzard's stated reason for removing the vendors, to save me from my own stupidity, to be condescending beyond belief.
Keep them gone if your going to remove them.. seems silly to remove them if your planning on bringing them back as "New" content in 5.3
90 Human Paladin
9735
Here's a new idea for you Blizz:

How about making item drops in 5.0 content automatically upgraded so that there's no need to upgrade at all?

Heroics drop 471, blacksmith crafted weapons are 471 to start with, etc.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12430
Where's the blue post for this? I even checking the stickied threds in the PTR form for information about patch content. Nothing.

I see blues talking up dailies time and time again. They don't talk about raid rep.

I'm really tired of Blizzard using Twitter as their official form of communication with their players. I play WoW, not Twitter. Annoucements regarding game changes belong on the Blizzard wesbite first, not sitting at some other website.

As for getting gear for raiding, that's the way it should be. Valor was the gap filler for those items that simply would not drop in raid. Forcing players out of raiding and into other content to get filler gear does nothing to make the game more enjoyable when that content is pathetic.

But then raiding is dying anyway. Soon the game will be nothing but LFR and dailies. There's been great discussion about players always taking the easy way out and that's why 25man raiding is dying. 10man is dying too now but no one seems to notice that. There's a fraction of the number of players participating in normal and heroic mode raids now that were participating in Cata because they can get gear that's only fractionally less powerful than that which drops in normal and heroics mode without putting in any effort at all. They just have to zone in. The downward spiral continues.


I agree, the Twitter communication can be frustrating. I'm not a fan of it myself, but I've resigned myself to paying attention to it because there's information that isn't available anywhere else.

I also agree that valor gear should be used to fill in raid gear slots that are unlucky for you.

Hmm, too much agreement. Did you know that when Seanchan pronounce your guild name, it sounds like 'sissy man'? ;P
100 Pandaren Monk
16365
Seems like it would be easier to just put an ilvl restriction on the upgrade npc that is increased with every new raid tier rather then just removing the npc and adding it again later.

Kind of like the reforging npcs have a 200 minimum ilvl restriction (if memory serves).
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