Change to t15 Ret 4p thoughts?

100 Human Paladin
16150
It might make things a little more interesting in RBGs being able to stay on a single target while doing AOE damage for protecting nodes but in all honestly.. Sounds crap to me..
Prob 1 of rets least used abilities in pvp.


Why would you use the 4 piece bonus of the PVE set in PVP?
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
With this proc it will, in essence, be targeted like HoTR, and what if you're using DS while not targeting something for some reason?

I dont like having to use an AOE ability to get optimal single target DPS. It was terrible in Wrath.

Well, as long as it's just a "sometimes" thing like this, I don't really mind that it's an AoE attack on single-target. And unlike the old version, this one will also help on multi-target fights.

As for not having a target, that may be something to ask GC. My DS macro always picks up a target for me, so that won't be an issue on my end. :P
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100 Human Paladin
16150
01/15/2013 11:35 AMPosted by Lobster
When it procs we use Divine Storm, but why would we use DS single target if the proc is comparable to a TV?


Exactly, why use the proc if its only a single target fight if it hits as hard as TV?
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
01/15/2013 11:35 AMPosted by Lobster
I also don't understand how the proc is supposed to work. When it procs we use Divine Storm, but why would we use DS single target if the proc is comparable to a TV?

Basically:

- Bonus procs.
- Cast DS.
- DS deals its normal damage + Hand of Light.
- Set bonus deals additional damage roughly equal to that of a TV.

So it's quite a bit of extra damage on top of the DS.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
The proc ALONE hits as hard as TV. You can use TV and hit as hard as a TV, or you can use DS and hit as hard as a DS AND a TV. That's strictly superior, even for single-target, although not by as much as the previous 4pc was, and still kind of an icky implementation.
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100 Human Paladin
16150
Is it though? Does it use the damage your TV would have done? There are issues about the proc we dont know; does it scale with your weapon, does it increase with spellpower buffs, attack power, etc.

It has to scale exactly as TV does with weapons, gear etc.

I still dont like using an aoe attack for superior single target dps =/, it was bad back in the day and its still bad now.
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100 Human Paladin
16150
If they want to give us an aoe bonus I suggested something like this

"Crusader strike gives X chance to make your next TV holy damage, or HoTR gives your DS X chance to make DS do something aoeish" where the buffs from each cant be up at the same time, and if one's up the other cant proc.

That way it gives us incentive to aoe when there is aoe, and to single target when you need to single target, or choose which ones best for the situation.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
There's a lot we don't know about how the proc scales. We know it's supposed to be equal to a TV, but is that TV alone after armor? TV without armor? TV plus Hand of Light after armor, or plus Hand of Light before armor? I imagine the easiest would be to just make it deal damage equal to TV's weapon damage scaling (ignoring armor), but that's definitely something to ask GC to clarify.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
01/15/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Paladinchaz
Is it though? Does it use the damage your TV would have done? There are issues about the proc we dont know; does it scale with your weapon, does it increase with spellpower buffs, attack power, etc.

I really wish they would tell us what it actually does, rather than sorta vaguely describing it and specifically omitting numbers.

And... yeah, if the lightning bolt is a static amount of damage, it'll scale in weird ways. Or rather, it won't scale, which will force us to behave in weird ways ("use DS when the 4pc procs, unless you've popped cooldowns").
Edited by Ravicana on 1/15/2013 11:53 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
0
It's like they forgot WotLK even happened.

For a a long time the only viable rotation rets had was a mess of single and multi-target abilities. After countless forum posts critiquing the rotation and an expansion release we finally get an interchangeable targeting system.

This wouldn't be a proper 4p dps bonus that increases damage, this is an either-or. The only way this would be a dps increase is if the majority of boss fights included groups of adds that spawned directly on the boss and need to be aoe'd down. Based on past content it's safe to say that will not be the case.

The proposed 4p can be described by the one thing it's good for: trash.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20940
If they made DP baseline again, it would fix most of our issues. Our Burst wouldnt change much since youre already using HoW or TV every other global(SW vs HA) and we'll have more sustaining output while having a bit more aoe due to more DS/TV
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
01/15/2013 11:58 AMPosted by Opolis
This wouldn't be a proper 4p dps bonus that increases damage, this is an either-or. The only way this would be a dps increase is if the majority of boss fights included groups of adds that spawned directly on the boss and need to be aoe'd down. Based on past content it's safe to say that will not be the case.

The total damage would be around 400% weapon damage on a single target versus TV's 300%. How is that not an increase?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
This new 4p will still be a single-target DPS increase, it's just incredibly messy and foolish. Biggest problem as of now is not knowing how the lightning strike is going to scale, as Rav has already pointed out.
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100 Human Paladin
16150
01/15/2013 12:07 PMPosted by Thermadin
If they made DP baseline again, it would fix most of our issues. Our Burst wouldnt change much since youre already using HoW or TV every other global(SW vs HA) and we'll have more sustaining output while having a bit more aoe due to more DS/TV


Id prefer our base DPS not to be balanced around random procs again, exorcism is enough
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100 Human Paladin
16150
01/15/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Sanctifiêd
i really think making DS cost no holy powe


They made DS a finisher because they didnt want us using it in single target rotations.
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