Change to t15 Ret 4p thoughts?

90 Human Paladin
9970
i really think making DS cost no holy power and giving the 4pc a bonus to TV would be a better solution to the problem :/

it adds another button to use in the rotation (DS), but our main strike (TV) gets the main benefit from the set bonus.

shrug

If DS doesn't cost Holy Power, then we have no AoE Holy Power dump, and DS would work its way back into single-target rotations (during empty GCDs, if nothing else). Neither of those effects is particularly desirable, at least IMO.

But I would like to see the 4pc return to affecting TV, or otherwise not make the rotation really weird for six months.
Edited by Ravicana on 1/15/2013 12:14 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
We don't need more buttons; haste closes our rotational gaps exceedingly well as is.
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100 Human Paladin
16205
If you guys are wary of these changes, please let post constructively on the PTR forum in the stickied set bonus thread.

The more of us voicing concerns over this change the better.

And no whining please.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20970
01/15/2013 12:09 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
Id prefer our base DPS not to be balanced around random procs again, exorcism is enough

I dont see why everyone is so afraid of DP =\
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/15/2013 12:25 PMPosted by Thermadin
I dont see why everyone is so afraid of DP =\


I like RNG as a bonus supplemental to my spec, not a base factor of how it will preform.

The dps of the spec being subject to RNG like it was when DP was baseline, was terrible.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
Id prefer our base DPS not to be balanced around random procs again, exorcism is enough

I dont see why everyone is so afraid of DP =\

I'm not afraid of DP, but I don't like the idea of making it baseline, and that seems to be a pretty common opinion. Remember, it was baseline during Cata, and players hated it. When something is baseline, that means it's no longer a bonus - DP procs become less "woot, bonus damage" and more "I'm balanced around getting three DP procs per minute, and when RNG gives me less than that I underperform".
After all, DP is the opposite of a sustained DPS ability - most of the time it does nothing, and once in a blue moon you can cast TV eight times in a row and your target is reduced to a fine red mist. It's still burst, and unlike a cooldown, it's burst you can't even control.
If they want to buff sustained DPS in some way, I don't see why it should be via baseline DP.

...but this is all wildly off-topic >.>
Edited by Ravicana on 1/15/2013 12:34 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20925
in any case, id much rather see a buff to TV than DS, aoe fight or not.

as for aoe, they need to make seal of righteousness worth using. I think it's a very minor increase at 8+ targets?


If it's things that live long enough to tab a couple stacks of truth around it's like that check engine light on your dash board. Sure, it's there, but it's not accomplishing anything.
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100 Human Paladin
13390
I'm very scatterbrained about all of this... here's a few of my 360x360x360 degree thoughts...

-Will this make the DS glyph something mildly beneficial? (5% healing per DS use, even on single targets)?

-Will said glyph be enough to compensate for the possibly lowered uptime of the TV glyph (10% DR for 6 secs on TV usage)?

-Will we be able to (or would they be willing to) change it from a nature strike to something holy? Or at -least- allow the 'strike' to scale with Inq? Would kinda help enforce the 'good ret' skillcap.

-Will the proc be often enough (considering a mild pace of HoPo generation) to almost replace TV completely?

-Will our rolling CD's make TV shiny enough to cause us to ignore the proc altogether? (goes back to scaling lightning strikes to prevent this)

Confusion or curiosity... call it what you will. I'll probably copy/paste this on the Stickied 'Set Bonus' forum thread on the PTR forum, just to see what happens.
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90 Human Paladin
0
I'm very scatterbrained about all of this... here's a few of my 360x360x360 degree thoughts...

-Will this make the DS glyph something mildly beneficial? (5% healing per DS use, even on single targets)?

-Will said glyph be enough to compensate for the possibly lowered uptime of the TV glyph (10% DR for 6 secs on TV usage)?

-Will we be able to (or would they be willing to) change it from a nature strike to something holy? Or at -least- allow the 'strike' to scale with Inq? Would kinda help enforce the 'good ret' skillcap.

-Will the proc be often enough (considering a mild pace of HoPo generation) to almost replace TV completely?

-Will our rolling CD's make TV shiny enough to cause us to ignore the proc altogether? (goes back to scaling lightning strikes to prevent this)

Confusion or curiosity... call it what you will. I'll probably copy/paste this on the Stickied 'Set Bonus' forum thread on the PTR forum, just to see what happens.


All of these are reasons why the redesign is a bad idea.

Also, we didn't want aoe in our single target rotation before, why do they think we want it now?
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90 Human Paladin
9905
As I stated this is the worst Tier Set for Ret pallys pretty much since vanilla. Its garbage. Which ever game balancer came up with this retarded idea should be fired.

TV does 300% dmg DS only does 150%. if with the 6% buff from the 2 piece its still not beinifical to use this in Single Target.

as for divine purpose i prefur it over anything else on tier and only reason i use santified wraith is cause of T14 4 piece.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20925
01/15/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Mikeangel
TV does 300% dmg DS only does 150%. if with the 6% buff from the 2 piece its still not beinifical to use this in Single Target.


Without knowing what the extra damage will actually be, you simply can't say that.

It may be a dumb set bonus, but the mechanical damage isn't known (and was stated to be "about" a TV" so can't be dismissed.
Edited by Cayse on 1/15/2013 2:02 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/15/2013 02:10 PMPosted by Sanctifiêd
cause at this rate, im keeping my 2 min wings, tyvm.


No kidding
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20925
anyone else hoping 2/2 t14 is only slightly worse than t15, which cant be upgraded?

cause at this rate, im keeping my 2 min wings, tyvm.


Little bit.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11875
Oh my god why.

01/15/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Paladinchaz
I dont like having to use an AOE ability to get optimal single target DPS. It was terrible in Wrath.


This so much, and...

You stupid whiny ret paladins don't know a major buff when you see one. This 4set bonus was absolutely amazing and fun and now its awful. There is no way a lightning bolt is ever going to reach the damage of a triple-dipping 275% weapon damage templar's verdict.

Looking forward to seeing it proc and attempting to lay on an exo before obliterating my target with pure holy energy was a very fun prospect indeed, and you people ruined it. I hate you all very much and hope you continue to suffer.
Edited by Unhope on 1/15/2013 2:32 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/15/2013 02:31 PMPosted by Unhope
You stupid whiny ret paladins don't know a major buff when you see one. This 4set bonus was absolutely amazing and fun and now its awful. There is no way a lightning bolt is ever going to reach the damage of a triple-dipping 275% weapon damage templar's verdict.


I dont think anyone was complaining about the original bonus tbh.
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/15/2013 02:44 PMPosted by Lobster
There were some people complaining about it in the DDF but I still don't know why. It was a REALLY good set bonus, anyone who plays ret could have seen that.


DDF, nuf said.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
If they really want a Lightning Bolt bonus, then there's a much simpler way to do it than the current version. Something like:

Your Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm abilities have a 10% chance to strike your current target with lightning, dealing an additional 100% weapon damage as Nature.
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