Change to t15 Ret 4p thoughts?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
I'm getting where Chaz is going with this. I reread the talent and so far, it's worded so that DS's bonus damage only targets your primary target...which means it's a buff to single target, sure, but does little for the AoE portion (though that makes sense, since then AoE would just be horribly overpowered), and makes it awkward when you don't actually have a target when using DS - which target does it choose?

Not to mention I worry about what it'll do for the rotation. Besides my reluctance to using cleave mechanics on single target fights (especially when CC's around, though admittedly there's few instances <_<), I wonder what the proc chance is and how long the buff'll last, considering that with haste closing up the rotation pretty fast, it's pretty easy to cast a Crusader's Strike at 2/4 holy power and precast a Templar's Verdict while the GCD is rolling...only to realize that CS procced the buff.

It just seems like an annoyance, which is something I wouldn't expect from a tier set bonus.
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90 Human Paladin
11290
from GC

For Divine Storm, several years ago, we got on this kick that thou shalt not use AE in single target fights. Ret paladins (Divine Storm) and warriors (Whirlwind) were particularly affected (and perhaps bummed out by it). The game has changed a lot since that time and now we have cleaving Arcane Barrages and core abilities like Howling Blast. We think the Ret toolkit is in a better place with separate single-target and AE finishers, but we get requests all the time to make Divine Storm more prominent. This set bonus is one way to do that.


yes because making baseline design philosophies into set bonuses is always a good idea and always works well /wave warlock tier 13
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Some more specific numbers are in:

The tier-14 2-piece set bonus now causes Crusader Strike and Hammer of Wrath to have a 40% chance to make the Paladin’s next Divine Storm deal a Lightning Strike for 255% weapon damage as Nature.


I personally like the fact that it scales and its not a constant number, but i don't like the fact that is a lightning strike and it requires change in our current play style. Most if not of all other classes tier set bonuses do not require a change in play style. Why in rets?

Also, i am thinking that haste will shine and so will HA.

Whats your thoughts?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12070
pretty boring 4 set why not just tie it to templar's verdict, why make us use divine storm to pretend we have unwanted "complexity" to our rotation for single target dps.

from GC

For Divine Storm, several years ago, we got on this kick that thou shalt not use AE in single target fights. Ret paladins (Divine Storm) and warriors (Whirlwind) were particularly affected (and perhaps bummed out by it). The game has changed a lot since that time and now we have cleaving Arcane Barrages and core abilities like Howling Blast. We think the Ret toolkit is in a better place with separate single-target and AE finishers, but we get requests all the time to make Divine Storm more prominent. This set bonus is one way to do that.


yes because making baseline design philosophies into set bonuses is always a good idea and always works well /wave warlock tier 13


I wish he would quote these people who he claims to be asking to added unnecessary steps to our rotation. Are these the same people who love on inquisition is?
Edited by Luthar on 1/16/2013 10:38 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
9970
If HoW instead of HotR isn't a typo, Sanctified Wrath will be pretty awesome. (But it is probably a typo, as is the t14 bit.)

I'm not thrilled about the lightning strike graphic, but it is instance-appropriate, I guess.
Edited by Ravicana on 1/16/2013 10:58 PM PST
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So 255% weapon damage as a lightning bolt. Were spell resistances removed from bosses as well or just players?

If there are still in game we are looking something like divine storm damage + a mediocre tv (around 80% of one). If there are not maybe a tv worth and some change.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
I don't think level-based partial resists are still a thing (they affected holy damage just as well as anything else iirc, and I haven't noticed that in quite some time).

The 255% is looking to be very close to the value of a TV+HoL hit: 275% weapon damage, minus a third for armor, is 183% weapon damage, +39% for 30% mastery and Inquisition = 254.8%. Depending on target armor and how much mastery you have, it may not be quite that close, but it's probably not far off in any case.
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90 Human Paladin
13010
can it be holy lightning instead of nature .... would fit better with DIVINE storm if it was holy damage... imo

i also i am curios if it will do the lightning damage to all targets hit by DS when the proc is up individually or spread across them
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90 Human Paladin
9970
Neither, it just hits the one enemy you have targeted.

It deals lightning damage because it's the Throne of Thunder raid and the Thunder King and etc, much the same way we got fire procs in t12, not because it's attached to a spell with "storm" in the name.
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90 Human Paladin
13010
fair point :)

re looked at the ptr patch note update ... HoW not HoR? guess the 4pc will never get used in AoE fights
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90 Human Paladin
9970
The patch notes also say it's the t14 2pc instead of the t15 4pc, so I wouldn't assume they're not completely screwed up.
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Its a typo most probably.

@fallenangell They changed it to nature damage as they didn't want the 2 tier set bonuses buff the 4 set.
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90 Human Paladin
0
Still a clunky mechanic, regardless of the damage it does
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90 Human Paladin
10480
The nature damage proc wont hit as hard as TV because TV has a holy damage component that is affected by our mastery. The nature damage will not be affected by our mastery. This is a stupid set bonus. If blizz wants us to be a DK spamming howling blast then just give judgement a splash or make Seal of Truth have a tiny cleave. When I saw the fire damage bonus to crusader strike in firelands, my willy wilted. The nature damage is making willy wilt again. We are paladins not druids. You can keep your nature damage furries.
Edited by Dagath on 1/17/2013 12:12 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10480
make the 4 pc reduce GoAK CD and then go to bed.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
01/17/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Dagath
The nature damage proc wont hit as hard as TV because TV has a holy damage component that is affected by our mastery. The nature damage will not be affected by our mastery.

You know, I'm not really very happy about this set bonus myself, but the numbers of it do in fact work out right, INCLUDING mastery. See post #67. TV doesn't bypass armor, and nature damage does, so you can't just compare the weapon damage % numbers without considering that.
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90 Human Paladin
0
Looks like they changed it back to the original
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
Update a few minutes ago:

For Retribution, we were trying to emphasize what was once the most awesome spell in the Ret arsenal (Divine Storm) while reacting to some of the initial feedback that the first set bonus wasn't exciting. As often happens in cases like this, the players who liked the first set bonus and not the second have now offered their feedback. I want to stress that when this happens it's not a poll or a contest to see who can yell the loudest. We evaluate the feedback we get, weigh the strengths of the various arguments, and come to a decision. For 5.2 we're going to go back to the initial 4 pc set bonus of Templar's Verdict sometimes hitting for Holy damage. I also want to stress that anyone expecting said bonus to be a 20% DPS increase or something are going to be disappointed, so I hope that's not why you liked the bonus. :)

Incorporating Divine Storm into the single-target rotation, sometimes, is still a neat idea and the kind of thing we might do as a glyph or something in the future.
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90 Tauren Paladin
19580
we won :D huzzah
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90 Human Paladin
0
01/17/2013 12:44 PMPosted by Thermadin
we won :D huzzah


Eh its not really a 'victory', I get the dev's desire to 'shake up the rotation' as you will, its just that I dont think it was done in the best way

Meh
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