Consolidate Uldaman

90 Human Warrior
8740
I agree completely, Outkast has a great group of core raiders but if we even are one short now its a challenge to find a replacement even in trade. Hopefully we can figure out how to bring the community together to make it so we can progress as a server.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
7675
Do what you feel is necessary, guild merging seems to be a common occurrence, and is often met with unrealistic ideals and met with more realistic results rarely but not often positive. But that being said it has worked before. I doubt that any amount of merging would do the server much good. Although, if you tried to at least leave now before it gets to much worse, I wouldn't blame you. I think it would be nice to pick the pieces up and get back in the game before you throw in the towel as they say.
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92 Orc Hunter
7935
Hey guys,

I am one of the few that moved to Uldaman back in the Immortalis vanilla recruiting days, and stayed with them all up until BC (lots of changes in management back then was my reason for leaving). After that, I became a member of many guilds and had formed my own as well, some of them were fun, had good progression for a while and had good people in them (Dark Star, Omen, [H]ardOCP); some others not so much (Blue Dragons, hacked... ouch).

01/16/2013 07:05 AMPosted by Twynkki
For those of you that have successfully merged guilds, do you have any pearls of wisdom on how you're making it work? It's always best to learn from the mistakes and success of others. :)


The trick to a good merge: Common goals (it's difficult to merge PvP with PvE players for example). For us is Raiding. We have done runs with other guilds for raid content before a merger is even up for discussion. That way you can "see" (or in our case "mostly hear" in vent) your future "roommates" before you bring them in the house or move in with them. Also, organized leadership plays a big part. You may be good driving 10 people, not the same when you have 40 (for all those old-schools like me out there). Same goes with the guild size. Dealing with 50 is not the same as dealing with 500.

I'm once again leading a guild that I love and putting the time to make it succeed. However, I have to recognize that this is affecting all of us again. Even after a good merge (last one was with Nebulous Rising around MoP release) we are now finding ourselves missing players too. Not for lack of loyalty but just by either RL events or people quitting WoW.

With that said, I wanted to take this opportunity to put my name and my guild's name out there for world raid events or scheduled raid nights (I would love to say the same for PvP content but right now my guys are mostly PvE). I really believe that with a little bit of cooperation between all of us we should be able to resolve this issue and make this server what it was a couple of years ago where people will port in because of good guilds.

I like what I see so far in this threat. Yes, we may be able to pull some great guild mergers here and there; and the Server merger may/may not happen soon but, the key here is that the solution for a community problem will only be resolved by this community. This is the first step so thank you Reign for bringing it up and voicing something that was obviously on everyone's mind.

Regards,
Mara
Edited by Maracaibo on 1/22/2013 12:54 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
18650
Ty, let's keep it going!
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90 Draenei Death Knight
0
From my observations, the ones that have failed have been because: 1. The two guilds weren't compatible with each other
2. The membership of the original guilds didn't like the direction the "new and improved" guild was going
3. Power struggles among both leaderships
4. Leadership couldn't handle herding cats when going from a small guild to a suddenly large guild
5. Lack of clear communication about the new goals and expectations


While much of the above has been my experience I genuinely applaude & support those G mergers that can succeed in spite of issues like these.

Anything that can keep skilled & active players on Uldaman is a win-win for me as it creates a stronger more competative player base, improved economy & increased server activity (Pokemon & Farmville excluded) & by crikey we may even attract some new blood.

IMO we need so much "new blood" it would require merging servers but at $25 per chara transfer Blizz isnt going to be in any hurry to help with that.

The "Low population server" issue has been around for awhile & getting more heated as per this "Popular Topics" thread > http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7709231961?page=1

TBH its enough hard work to run a guild @ the best of times, let alone in a deteriorating economy with little scope to recruit or even pug skilled active raiders/PvP'ers.

Dunno if its a deliberate business decision by Blizz or just a DILLIGAF care factor, either way they need a good kick up the *** for not having a more efficient fix to this issue after so long.

Jus my two bobs worth - cheers ;)

Ð
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13105
One possibility is guilds could agree to work together as one without actually combining and losing each other's identity, essentially "partner guilds". There's an addon called Greenwall would help by combining the two guild chats into a single chat channel that both guilds can see. So all guild chat (even officer chat) in one guild can be seen in both.
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92 Orc Hunter
7935
01/28/2013 10:54 AMPosted by Lustan
One possibility is guilds could agree to work together as one without actually combining and losing each other's identity, essentially "partner guilds". There's an addon called Greenwall would help by combining the two guild chats into a single chat channel that both guilds can see. So all guild chat (even officer chat) in one guild can be seen in both.


Yep.. We did this for a while too... with the Guild2guild addon. It worked pretty good.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
0
01/28/2013 10:54 AMPosted by Lustan
One possibility is guilds could agree to work together as one without actually combining and losing each other's identity, essentially "partner guilds". There's an addon called Greenwall would help by combining the two guild chats into a single chat channel that both guilds can see. So all guild chat (even officer chat) in one guild can be seen in both.


I was asked by a good m8 and GM to do this sometime ago involving 3 guilds. I declined only because the add-on meant ALL guilds could see ALL chat and the potential for conflict or more likely someone being offended by something said by someone in another guild was pretty high. While we enforce a No-Troll rule some of our mobs humor may not seem so funny to others ;p (myself included lol)

That said cant we do this without the need for an add-on by simply creating a chat channel eg /Guilds911

Back in the day we would do this so our guildys who had other toons in different guilds could communicate with us should we need them for raids/dungeons etc. Once added to your chat channels you auto join every time you log in & possibly one for GM's/officers.

I certainly agree with Tekillya more communication can only help.

I should have also mentioned our guild has been rolling as a co-GM guild since its conception. Both myself and Chrismalibu functioning as GM's at ALL times but swapping the actual title weekly or fortnightly. I find it offers a unique balance of leadership but also a break from the role of GM that as you all know can at times be very demanding or conflict with r/l issues. Just thought it worth a mention.

cheers

Ð
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100 Human Paladin
18650
MSG me when you're on, I've started working together with other gm's, an alliance alliance XD
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90 Draenei Shaman
0
theres no opposite competition for horde
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90 Pandaren Shaman
4890
I think the idea of keeping guilds separate and joining up only for raids is something that might work but personally I think it would take more than that. I think we need a few 25man guilds to start up to make this server viable again Alliance side. The only way for this to happen is few Guild Leaders getting together and picking a guild and have the members move over. I know its not that simple but I'll outline somethings that we could do to make it work. First I'll go over the problem.

By looking at the WowProgress for Uldaman (http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/us/uldaman#guild_progress) and just the general feeling of I have after talking to a few guild leaders, guilds are stuck at 4/6 msv or 2/6 hof not because of we aren't skilled enough but because we routinely have to pug those 1 or 2 last spots to be able to raid during the week. That is if you get lucky and find someone from another raid whose original raid got canceled because of lack of people. Usually you don't get lucky and end up doing farm content with really under geared people, with people who don't care about raiding or just canceling the raid. I know not all alliance guilds have this problem, some are even running two 10 man groups a week so there is hope. But I know some people who will read this, will know exactly what I'm talking about. Now to solve this I suggest 2-3 guilds merging together to form a steady group of 25-28 people who are willing to commit to 2-3 nights of raiding a week. And who before hand understood the expectations and the challenges of making this work. I'll go over this in a separate post, I don't really like posts that take too long to read.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
4890
How to pick what guilds to close/what guild to join
This could be a make or break for a lot of people but personally I don't care about the guild name or having to start from scratch your experience with your guild. I say we pick a guild who has been up the longest, has the most achievement points and all move to that guild. most guilds have over 200 members with usually 50-60 active during the week. With 10-12 regularly active, 8 of whom have any interest in doing normal/heroics. Only thing I would suggest is changing the guild name so it feels like it has a new identity.

Officers/GL from old guilds.
I dont think a guild can work with 20 officers and 3 guild leaders. People just have to understand that you might have a smaller role in this new guild. Some will not like it, others will love to step back a little and just raid regularly.

How to pick new officers (raid officers)
Every Raid leader/guild leader knows who his members and who likes organizing groups. You also know who does it because no one else is willing to do it. I don't think this will be an issue because I am sure a few people will step up to make this work as a few people will go behind the scenes and let others take charge.

How to deal with roles that wont be needed anymore
For 25man raiding you usually need 2-3 tanks and each guild will probably bring in 2 tanks each so a few people wont be needed anymore for tanking but they can surely go dps. Or they can bring an alt who they enjoy playing. Before a merger like this happens each guild leader just has to talk to their people and ask who wants to keep healing/tanking at all costs (wont be happy switching to any other roles) After each person does this we can see what we have. I'd be surprised if all 6 tanks say they are only happy tanking and wont want to do anything else. But lets see what happens.

How to deal with conflicting personalities
Again talk to your members about this and see what they think. In every guild there is that really sarcastic member who is joking all the time who your new guildmates wont understand or wont like at all. There are always inside jokes who all of a sudden dont make sense to your other members. This will happen and people will get mad. you jsut have to know its coming. Everyone just has to relax and understand why we are doing this. We are doing this because we are tired of canceling raids and because you want to raid 25man instead of 10man. If everyone understands this then I'm sure people will get used to each other pretty quick.

How to manage expectations
If your guild is interested in this and you haven't wiped on 10 man normal stone guards in about 3 months and you sure as hell don't want to wipe on it, you don't care if its 25man stone guards you just don't want to wipe on the first boss of the tier after who have had him on farm for 3 months... then maybe this isn't for you. Going from 10man to 25man will be tough at the beginning because it is 25 people who have to move out of stuff and it is 25 people who have to stack on the tank for Spirit Kings and it is 25 people who have to run the tornadoes in Blade Lord. It could take a couple of wipes on bosses you are used to one shotting but I think its worth it.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
4890
Now I know I missed a ton of stuff and all of you are just thinking "wow it would be a lot easier to just recruit those 1 or 2 missing people and keep going 10man. And it probably is a lot easier to do that.

But if you are interested in going 25man and consolidating. Talk to your guildies and see what they think. Hey we could immediately jump to number 1 in 25man alliance progression on the server :)

Add me on my battletag Sundice#1173 if you are truly interested and want to try out 25mans. We could initially just start raiding 25mans as separate guilds to see how it goes but I think people will throw in the white flag right away because there would be no consequences as no one left their guild to do this. I think we have to go all in, talk about it, pick a guild and start doing this before 5.2 comes a long.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
20295
The reality of the situation here on Uldaman is rather complicated. Especially Alliance side. The alliance has many skilled players who can raid at a heroic progression level HOWEVER, there are 2 problems I have noticed;

1. Time commitment - many cannot afford the time it takes to really do HC progression (4+ night a week), on top of that many want to play the game for fun and as anyone who has truly raided HC it is NOT fun...its a baton death-march.

2. Nearly all good players alliance side are guilded and raiding and many are quite loyal to their guilds which is understandable. So either a) you poach and steal from your colleagues or b) you pray you find that 1/100 unguilded good player.

I imagine the horde side will eventually get to this point if it hasnt already, but i dont believe , despite everything ive said thus far, that Uldaman is not beyond saving. Alliance is just now getting heroic kills (Airborne and Audacity) and we are still relatively mid pack on realm raid rankings 117) with a few more guilds getting heroic kills uldaman may once again become an attractive place for semi hardcore and casual raiders to call home.

TL;DR Dont give up on Uldaman just yet!
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100 Draenei Death Knight
20295
I think Tekillya has proposed an interesting option that I would be interested in exploring, a 25 man run through msv and maybe first 2 HoF on Sunday or what have you to see which potential guilds can work together and who cannot, kind of a mashup but running a 25 man alt run is a good start and could really help alot of guilds alliance side. We just need to get the RL's and Gm's together to really talk about this in a large meeting/discussion at some point in the near future.
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90 Human Death Knight
11055
I know me personally speaking as a GM, it's a pita to pug the 2 spots because someone didnt show or "fell asleep" lol, you know who it is. I think we should setup a meeting or something, I would definitely be interested to have this open discussion over vent or something to actually see who's willing to give it all or go home.
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100 Human Paladin
18650
but personally I don't care about the guild name or having to start from scratch your experience with your guild. I say we pick a guild who has been up the longest, has the most achievement points and all move to that guild.


Waiting for everybody to come on over XD
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