The New Power Word: Solace

100 Blood Elf Priest
12770
Let me quote you again:

Learn how to play disc, 20seconds per HF is retardedly slow, i didn't fl;ame you in your first post but you continue to not understand the proper rotation for a "Good" disc priest stop giving bad and incorrect advice.


You call him stupid (using different words) three times in that post. And it's all based on an incorrect reading of what he said.
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
All i said in that post was he was linking incorrect information, if you take that as me calling him stupid then that is your own interpretation and you are welcome to it
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
if anything i'm calling him ignorant not stupid. I may be bad at grammer and english but there is a clear difference between the 2 words.
Edited by Psudo on 1/11/2013 7:41 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12770
Let me be more clear. The problem isn't the specific words you were using to insult him. The problem is that you were insulting him for something he didn't actually say. Specifically, he never said that you should only cast Holy Fire every 20 seconds.
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90 Human Paladin
10740
Yeah, the first thing I thought when I read the change was "Just looks like paladin judging on CD to me".

Funny how many weird, directly contradictory things Blizzard does like this.
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100 Human Priest
17880
@K It's fine, w/e.

I was googling shadowfiend and glancing blows and came across someone out there who is doing the same sort of evaluation: http://www.howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?t=2693&p=22764

I wish some of the conclusions would have been a little clear so I could fact check the math, but what they're saying is in agreement with what's being said here.
Edited by Twistedmind on 1/11/2013 8:16 AM PST
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
Code: Select all
Fight Length 6 min 7 min 7 min 8 min
Number of Shadowfiends 2 2 3 3
Mana from Shadowfiends 180,000 180,000 270,000 270,000
Number H Fires/Solaces 30 35 35 40
Mana saved/generated 222000 259000 259000 296000
Total Mana 402000 439000 529000 566000
Mana per 5 sec 5583 5226 6298 5896
you are refering to some1 who has a total of 4 posts in there total history, and the maths for HF is incorrect on a 6min fight a disc priest using a poreper rotaiton should cast 36 holy fires, taking into account lag and innefieciancy that would be reduced by a total of 10%-20% for the avg decent disc healer.
Edited in a saner frame of mind. sorry for hostility.
Edited by Psudo on 1/11/2013 4:49 PM PST
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
also with the 2/2/3/3/ sfiends with the 2nd 2 being on a 7minute fight clearly is expecting the player to be inneficient with there play style, as with this you are expecting priests to be fail at there rotation and miss over 20% of there gcd's in relation to AA
Edited by Psudo on 1/11/2013 8:37 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12770
01/11/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Psudo
you are refering to some1 who has a total of 4 posts in there total history, and the maths for HF is incorrect on a 6min fight a disc priest using a poreper rotaiton should cast 36 holy fires, taking into account lag and innefieciancy that would be reduced by a total of 10% for the avg decent disc healer, assuming like the OP has that missing 6 HF cd's per 6mins is avg is just plain expecting every1 to play as bad as they do.

Where do I start...hm...I know. I'll start with your logs.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=749&e=1025
Fight duration: 04:36
Holy Fire casts: 16
Holy Fires per minute: 3.5

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=2044&e=2520
Fight duration: 07:55
Holy Fire casts: 23
Holy Fires per minute: 2.9

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=4411&e=4834
Fight duration: 07:03
Holy Fire casts: 24
Holy Fires per minute: 3.4

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=5763&e=6151
Fight duration: 06:27
Holy Fire casts: 31
Holy Fires per minute: 4.8

Should I go on?

I don't think you're a bad priest. You're probably better than I am. But you're still not mathematically perfect. Nobody is. That's why we assume some level of imperfection in our mathematical models. Sometimes we even assume 'bad' execution of an ability (like casting HF every 20 seconds) to see if it still comes out ahead. That helps theorycrafters make good talent recommendations for different fight types and skill levels.
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100 Human Priest
14765

This ability may be clunky but i can see myself taking it for disc pvp. As long as the mana procs even when it's deflected. Mindbender is just too easy to kill/cc.

And for any heavy atonement encounters, it's a solid choice, as well as for movement fights that aren't gcd locked.

Honestly the best part about this talent is that it ISNT useful in all encounters. I get to have a choice based upon what's more useful. That's one of my favorite parts about playing my shadow spec. Respeccing to fit a fight's need. Its fun to have a different playstyle every so often.


Currently I can't think of a reason to take solace in just about any situation for Disc PVE. Post 5.2 I can't think of a reason not to take solace in just about every situation for Disc PVE. For the most part the change trades one obvious choice for another obvious choice. I wouldn't call it a choice at all.


If the changes go alive in 5.2 as it is, I'd probably only take Solace when my DPS is needed, i.e., I'm picking it for the instant cast, not mana return. Since when I'm in the dps rotation, I'm swimming in mana anyway.

On fights where atonement is to build archangel stacks, I'm not using Holy Fire anywhere near its cooldown, so I don't see myself able to get enough mana from Solace than Mindbinder. Hard casted Holy Fire would suck, but I'll have to deal with it somehow. If Solace could return more mana, like 1.5% (don't think 2% is possible), it may be more workable for a HF slacker like myself.
Edited by Jesminia on 1/11/2013 1:09 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
Don't bother continuing talking to this person. He's nasty, aggressively rude, incorrect, and apparently can't read.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/11/2013 08:33 AMPosted by Psudo
you are refering to some1 who has a total of 4 posts in there total history, and the maths for HF is incorrect on a 6min fight a disc priest using a poreper rotaiton should cast 36 holy fires, taking into account lag and innefieciancy that would be reduced by a total of 10% for the avg decent disc healer, assuming like the OP has that missing 6 HF cd's per 6mins is avg is just plain expecting every1 to play as bad as they do.


Twistedmind has 58 pages of posts. Pages. 58 of them.

Are you perhaps confusing him with someone else?

Also, please lose the hostility. It is not needed here. If you aren't going to be constructive, please find somewhere else to post. We don't appreciate it. We like our forum to be constructive and productive, and your hostility is just starting flame wars. Stop it.
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100 Human Priest
17880
He was talking about the guy who did the analysis on the howtopriest forum I linked. Regardless, post history doesn't invalidate data, mathematical inaccuracies do. A part from the lack of acknowledging that both solace and the shadow pets scale with spellpower, I found the write up to be a in agreement with what I wrote up here and felt it was worth sharing in case readers wanted more info from a different perspective.

I don't mind being corrected, as long as the corrections are actually needed. But there is no need to be hostile. That goes for both the attacker, and the retaliators. Although I found some of the retorts humorous, I don't condone defending my name or sidestepping alternative inputs at the expense of the contradictor. I'd rather the post material speak on my behalf.
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
Where do I start...hm...I know. I'll start with your logs.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=749&e=1025
Fight duration: 04:36
Holy Fire casts: 16
Holy Fires per minute: 3.5

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=2044&e=2520
Fight duration: 07:55
Holy Fire casts: 23
Holy Fires per minute: 2.9

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=4411&e=4834
Fight duration: 07:03
Holy Fire casts: 24
Holy Fires per minute: 3.4

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7874zqg1bib8zrny/details/18/?s=5763&e=6151
Fight duration: 06:27
Holy Fire casts: 31
Holy Fires per minute: 4.8

Should I go on?

I don't think you're a bad priest. You're probably better than I am. But you're still not mathematically perfect. Nobody is. That's why we assume some level of imperfection in our mathematical models. Sometimes we even assume 'bad' execution of an ability (like casting HF every 20 seconds) to see if it still comes out ahead. That helps theorycrafters make good talent recommendations for different fight types and skill levels.


I'm glad to see that your willing to help with the maths and you are correct, that i do not get to 6hf's per minute, however taking into account the 4 links you posted that avg's 14.6hfpm/4 parses avg's to 3.65 hfpm, however in saying this the 2.9hfpm parse is from h bladelord tyak and given the mechanics of that fight casting hf on cd (if possable due to location, ie 15sec spirit shell spams per 1minute for stacking up, or running from a tornado or even being out of the 30yrd range of the boss i still managed his coveted 20sec per hf basicly)

Theorycrafting can be used to math out alot of differences in playstyles, however using something like raidbots, takes into account a perfect rotation over a extended period of time and the information it spits out to decifer is in direct relation to a picture perfect rotation.

The major difference which will/should increase people HF/Solace outputs will be the fact that we will be gaining mana from the cast instead of spending it giving it a much higher priority in rotation than HF currently keeps.
Edited by Psudo on 1/11/2013 4:51 PM PST
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
Twistedmind has 58 pages of posts. Pages. 58 of them.

Are you perhaps confusing him with someone else?

sorry for the confusion, i wasn't meaning TM has only 4 posts, i was refering to the quote in his post from some1 who has only 4 posts

I was googling shadowfiend and glancing blows and came across someone out there who is doing the same sort of evaluation: http://www.howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?t=2693&p=22764
Edited by Psudo on 1/11/2013 4:40 PM PST
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
I don't mind being corrected, as long as the corrections are actually needed. But there is no need to be hostile. That goes for both the attacker, and the retaliators. Although I found some of the retorts humorous, I don't condone defending my name or sidestepping alternative inputs at the expense of the contradictor. I'd rather the post material speak on my behalf.


I'm sorry for being hostile, as i'm not going to pretend i wasn't. I haven't been asked to appolagise i'm doing this of my own accord. You are correct that the hostility in my posts is only serving to hinder not help.
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100 Human Priest
17880
yay, see how much fun we can have when we're all friends????
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01/11/2013 06:53 AMPosted by Psudo
Learn how to play disc, 20seconds per HF is retardedly slow, i didn't fl;ame you in your first post but you continue to not understand the proper rotation for a "Good" disc priest stop giving bad and incorrect advice.


It was a hypothetical point. Typically in mathematics you consider a range of possibilities and evaluate the outcomes along that range. In fact, that very practice of evaluating a range of possibilities is how Twisted understands priesting as well as he does.

By the way, with my current playstyle, it's very typical for me to delay my Holy Fire cast if I need to do something else that second. Apparently that's typical for your playstyle as well.

Edit: OMG best apology ever. High five for the goblin.
Edited by Heartsings on 1/11/2013 6:00 PM PST
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100 Human Priest
17880
I'm being sincere here ^. It does take a lot of balls to admit something like that...even if they are minuscule and green (and in some healer irc's, blue).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14860
The new Solace is too good for Disc.
The new Solace is not good enough for holy.
For Disc, atonement/Evangelism don't have an opportunity cost anymore for Archangel, therefore Archangel/Atonement is mandatory.
Holy suffers from too great a hps loss to justify this talent.
For holy, the talent is too inflexible to be used during downtimes.


You could definitely make the case that it's too good for disc. I think it's actually archangel that's too good though. If evangelism weaving wasn't so important, I think it'd be a pretty reasonable trade off for disc.

For holy though, you're right, it's completely terrible. It probably needs an additional mechanic to make it at all attractive for holy.
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