Thoughts on Inquisition? Go? Stay? Change?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
9210
I've been against Inquisition since its implementation and vehemently protested against it to no avail in MoP Beta. I despise the design and intention of a "maintenance buff" and prefer "proc-based" game-play over it by far.

That is the part that really gets me. Ret is already almost all "proc-based" and "resource building" anyways, except for this one strange maintenance buff that feels very out of place in the rotation. This is something I've wanted to ask GC about for the longest time, but, given the lack of any dev post on the subject of Inquisition, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

And yes, I know that this is all my opinion and perception. However, given the amount of forum posts I've seen about this everywhere, I know that I am certainly not alone on this one.

Edit: As far as an idea of what I think it should be: I think it should be turned into a passive or removed completely. I believe that the current ret paladin already has enough in their damage toolkit (not to mention support, heals, etc) to be perfectly fine without it; as evidenced by the many people who leveled without using it.

The annoyance of a maintenance buff that provides a direct power increase is that most players will feel obligated to have it up all the time, thus making it "mandatory". Which is a given, because who wants to do x% less dmg when they could be doing x% more? Not too many, I'm afraid.

Edit 2: Post moved due to irrelevance to original thread.
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15 Worgen Druid
4620
Maintenance buffs are the poster child of bad gameplay. There's a reason 30-second Seal durations were removed.

Inquisition, Savage Roar, and similar abilities are annoying and poorly designed. I have yet to hear one good argument for keeping Inquisition the way it is. Ret has resource management and enough of a rotation by itself, without throwing in a mindless button press every 30 seconds.
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One of the bigger advantages with Inquisition is that it does veer us away from being too proc-reliant like we were in Cataclysm (and keeping up with the Inquisition buff was what made it really interesting). I'm not a huge fan of being too reliant on RNG. Art of War is okay since now we can hardcast Exorcism without having to actually, you know, sit and cast it. Inquisition also does, in it's own way, separate the good PvEers and the terrible ones.

I think Inquisition could personally get some things worked around, but Slice and Dice and Savage Roar as well. Inquisition's cousins are arguably even more annoying to manage since they also have to manage two DoTs (their bleeds) on top of their Savage Roar costing two different resources (energy and combo points) while the most we really manage is, almost literally, Inquisition itself. Censure's DoTs are applied automatically with an auto-swing and using Seal of Truth. Obviously Holy Power is another, but compared to how Combo Points and Energy works... I think it's a fair trade-off. That's why I haven't complained much about it, anyway.

EDIT: I should rephrase what I said slightly. In PvE terms mana isn't really often a "major" constraint. Considering PvP has situations where you'll sometimes hard-cast Flash of Light, I can definitely see where mana can be tied as an issue with Holy Power generation and the like.
Edited by Bassm on 1/15/2013 8:52 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
0
If I wanted to play a rogue or feral druid then I would roll one.
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Let's also remember Envenom is Assassination-only (just in case people try saying "OH ROGUES GET TO REFRESH THEIRS AND WE DON'T!?! TO THE GROUND!).
If I wanted to play a rogue or feral druid then I would roll one.

Well I'm sorry to tell you man but...

You kind of did role one.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) we also have to keep up a buff just like them.
Edited by Bassm on 1/15/2013 9:07 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
0

You kind of did role one.


Unless I was playing a pally long before the holy power and inquisition changes.... dun dun DUN!
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90 Tauren Paladin
19560
another thread.......unreal O.o
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90 Undead Warlock
3210
is your 4 seconds of ramping up inquisition so hard? i would swap it for demonic fury any day sister.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11270
Keeping it up doesn't bother me in PvE (unless questing/dailies)

Keeping it up in PvP is really annoying (i'm not a high level pvper, so this is from a random battelground perspective)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7060
You kind of did role one.


No we did not. We rolled a paladin. When I made my paladin, there were no rogue or druid like mechanics to the class as ret.

Inquisition is stupid and needs to be tossed out.
Edited by Angelista on 1/15/2013 11:56 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9210
One of the bigger advantages with Inquisition is that it does veer us away from being too proc-reliant like we were in Cataclysm (and keeping up with the Inquisition buff was what made it really interesting). I'm not a huge fan of being too reliant on RNG. Art of War is okay since now we can hardcast Exorcism without having to actually, you know, sit and cast it. Inquisition also does, in it's own way, separate the good PvEers and the terrible ones.


I have to disagree with you on two points here. Using Inquisition to steer us away from more proc-reliant game play is simply bad design. The correct decision would be to bring up sustained damage, not to force a maintenance-buff in rets rotation.

Secondly, I don't think that an ability should be lauded for separating the GOOD players from the BAD. Damage, DPS, awareness...there are many gauges of a player's ability in a PvE setting. Also plenty of solid identifiers of skill in PvP as well. I wouldn't consider this a "strength" of Inquisition.
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90 Human Paladin
6085
dude this forum. lol. We should make some threads about other things ill start.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
01/16/2013 06:21 PMPosted by Tsura
Secondly, I don't think that an ability should be lauded for separating the GOOD players from the BAD. Damage, DPS, awareness...there are many gauges of a player's ability in a PvE setting.


I can only assume you didn't raid overly much during Wrath. It was damned near impossible to tell a good Ret from a bad, especially in ICC. Ret was, quite literally, faceroll - pop Wings and go to town. No thought, no skill, no more than one macro across the entire keyboard to break the meters. But, yes, a good Ret did not play like that and still did superior damage and DPS to the bad ones that did - but the gap was pathetically small, probably something on the order of 100 DPS on most fights.

It was because of that that we were given Holy Power and Inquisition in Cata. Ret sorely needed some form of complexity. And I'm honestly glad for it.
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90 Human Paladin
6085
On a serious note though. I really do not mind. I play games the way developers make them until they decide to change them haha. They do not look at the class forums anyway. Post something about this to GC on twitter. Inquistion is annoying because word of glory and it take away damage from TV which from what i gather is something that we cannot afford to waste. i understand the issue, but this forum is becoming nothing, but people getting blue in the face(or typing fingers) over things that we cannot change.

If we are all serious about getting this changed we should all tweet GC that would definately show him that we care, but do not get crazy on there or angry or he will crack some joke and move on. As it is though Paladins are doing ok for me. I am in contender's gear and I am not getting steamrolled by anyone. I also see very good Ret's on my server regularly with good/non-win trading ratings and what not. We just need a small QOL change probably, but nothing too drastic. As it has been said before, if we get OP then we will be worse off in the next patch. Lets keep it real my fellow Paladins. I am new to your rank, but I feel that this class forum needs to look at things in a more positive lite. Being a downer all the time, complainer, w/e, is not the same as submitting feedback in the right places, and making your voices heard. Another thing that we could do is start a petition mabye. Whatever the case may be there has to be some other way to get attention other than the what I have been seeing on this class forum on my way up to level 90.
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90 Human Paladin
6085
sorry about punctuation. It has been a while since I typed more than 150 characters lol.
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90 Draenei Paladin
9825
I'll admit that I have no particular qualms with Inquisition, but I can understand why some have their problems with it. It is a rather clunky mechanic.

I don't think it should be removed outright, nor do I think it should be made passive - not entirely anyway. Given the proc-based nature of Retribution's rotation, I think it would be neat if Inquisition itself were a proc.

For instance, Retribution could get a passive ability called, well, Inquisition that gives Templar's Verdict, Divine Storm, and Word of Glory/Eternal Flame a chance to cause the Inquisition effect, or to cause it whenever one of the aforementioned abilities results in a crit.

I can see a lot of paladins reforging into critical strike rating and haste if this change were made, though.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9210
01/16/2013 06:40 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
Secondly, I don't think that an ability should be lauded for separating the GOOD players from the BAD. Damage, DPS, awareness...there are many gauges of a player's ability in a PvE setting.


I can only assume you didn't raid overly much during Wrath. It was damned near impossible to tell a good Ret from a bad, especially in ICC. Ret was, quite literally, faceroll - pop Wings and go to town. No thought, no skill, no more than one macro across the entire keyboard to break the meters. But, yes, a good Ret did not play like that and still did superior damage and DPS to the bad ones that did - but the gap was pathetically small, probably something on the order of 100 DPS on most fights.

It was because of that that we were given Holy Power and Inquisition in Cata. Ret sorely needed some form of complexity. And I'm honestly glad for it.


I did, in fact, raid all of Wrath. The quote that I was replying to was about Cata's Ret systems, not Wraths.

Also, if you consider keeping up a 30-second maintenance buff as complexity or skill and not a trivial annoyance, I cannot agree with you on that one.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9210
On a serious note though. I really do not mind. I play games the way developers make them until they decide to change them haha. They do not look at the class forums anyway. Post something about this to GC on twitter. Inquistion is annoying because word of glory and it take away damage from TV which from what i gather is something that we cannot afford to waste. i understand the issue, but this forum is becoming nothing, but people getting blue in the face(or typing fingers) over things that we cannot change.

If we are all serious about getting this changed we should all tweet GC that would definately show him that we care, but do not get crazy on there or angry or he will crack some joke and move on. As it is though Paladins are doing ok for me. I am in contender's gear and I am not getting steamrolled by anyone. I also see very good Ret's on my server regularly with good/non-win trading ratings and what not. We just need a small QOL change probably, but nothing too drastic. As it has been said before, if we get OP then we will be worse off in the next patch. Lets keep it real my fellow Paladins. I am new to your rank, but I feel that this class forum needs to look at things in a more positive lite. Being a downer all the time, complainer, w/e, is not the same as submitting feedback in the right places, and making your voices heard. Another thing that we could do is start a petition mabye. Whatever the case may be there has to be some other way to get attention other than the what I have been seeing on this class forum on my way up to level 90.


I've tried tweeting GC about Inquisition, and I suppose I'll have to keep trying. For some reason, no dev wants to talk about it. I just really want to know what the devs think about it, and, more importantly, if there are plans to change it or not and what the reasoning is. I'm not sure if it is some taboo subject or what, but I'm beginning to think so. As many people have pointed out, there have been a billion Inquisition threads and 0 responses.
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