Disc priests have been gutted, please explain

90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Thugmcnasty
Again, I said stack crit. I did offer some constructive feedback, not none at all. You're just another mad discipline priest it seems.


Nope, I'm not mad. I think you're behaving badly, but I'm not mad. But I'm about to the point where I'm going to respond to posts like yours with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trvwVoLtqVI

More on the topic, there is another thread where there is math on the value of Crit. Stacking Crit is not going to be viable for PoH and will not be worth it. It will still be worth it for pure Atonement builds, but not for anything where you're using PoH actively. So you are incorrect in your recommendation.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
8340
When one ability of yours can completely negate any raid damage and leave the other healers with absolutely zero raid damage to heal, you know there is a real problem.

I don't like classes getting nerfed, I do play a resto shaman after all, Blizzard's favorite whipping boy, but disc is just out of control. You really cannot deny that fact, saying they have been gutted is probably blowing it out of proportion.


Look at the changes before you say we are blowing it out of proportion. If you know how disc works and you've read the changes I guarantee you would agree with us. Disc was OP yes, but now we are more Underpowered then we ever were Overpowered.


I am pretty sure these changes actually make us worse than before the buffs when we were the worst healer. Possibly not, I would have to go back and make a comparison.
Edited by Taihou on 1/18/2013 12:34 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Zamboozle
/fires marshmellow gun at Tiriél


I will fite u.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Well with spirit shell not benefiting from mastery what are the spells benefiting from it? DA and PW:S? Since DA is going to require a crit for it to be applied to begin with why not stack crit? I'm not saying crit solves the problem and makes your class heinously over powered and no skill broken again, I'm saying that it's going to alleviate the issues and mastery is only going to be more and more useless. Unless of course you want to PW:S spam which by all means be my guest.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13150
01/18/2013 08:50 AMPosted by Taymage
You don't seem to see that the last 7 (8 now) posts are arguing about wording instead of what the actual thread is about yet you are fine with that? Talking about Disc being 'gutted' is still more valuable than arguing about what color the sky is. I repeat, Stop Posting.


Tweakler, I don't think Alashe is disagreeing with you. Many believe the discussion is valuable, even if they disagree on the extent of the impact of these proposed nerfs.

Hopefully I'm not being too presumptuous, but I would hazard a guess that the reason why she is asking folks to at least partially temper their language is that there has historically been posters in these forums who, at least in my opinion, have reflexively brushed aside any and all concerns about disc priest healing, and who have literally called priests expressing such concerns over-emotional whiners. It has led to flame wars, finger pointing, etc.


Yes, you said that better than I did. It was a request to starve the trolls, who are going to be thick around here as it is, not stifle anyone's thoughts.

Maybe it's like the Solace nerf and they want to see where poh and SS are without aegis. Of course, they didn't revert the Solace nerf...but it looks good for 5.2.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 12:35 PMPosted by Thugmcnasty
Well with spirit shell not benefiting from mastery what are the spells benefiting from it? DA and PW:S? Since DA is going to require a crit for it to be applied to begin with why not stack crit? I'm not saying crit solves the problem and makes your class heinously over powered and no skill broken again, I'm saying that it's going to alleviate the issues and mastery is only going to be more and more useless. Unless of course you want to PW:S spam which by all means be my guest.


Technically, Mastery will still affect Spirit Shell, because Spirit Shell applies the auto 50% DA from PoH, and DA is affected by Mastery.

You don't stack Crit because there's no way you'll get Crit high enough for it to be a consistent return. You'll get more throughput out of running high Haste. If bubble spam ends up being as attractive as it is currently appearing to be, then Mastery will hold as something to stack since PW: Shield cannot crit. The only reason to stack Crit is to affect Spirit Shell, but we don't know how valuable SS is going to be in the next raid tier, either.

And no, I do not want to go back to bubble spam. If you had bothered to read any of my posts, you'd know that. If we go back to bubble spam, I will actually quit and not come back. I went through this in Wrath, and I never want to go there again. It is a horrible, soul-killing style of healing. It sucks. And I never want to see it again. But if it's the highest, most reliable throughput that we can sustain, Disc Priests will go back to doing it.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
01/18/2013 08:29 AMPosted by Tweakler
You don't seem to see that the last 7 (8 now) posts are arguing about wording instead of what the actual thread is about yet you are fine with that? Talking about Disc being 'gutted' is still more valuable than arguing about what color the sky is. I repeat, Stop Posting.


They are essentially resorting to the tone argument.

I'm not sure why people think being meek, quiet, and uncomplaining will get blizzard to pay attention to the potential issues we will be facing should the PTR changes go live. That has never worked. Squeaky wheel has always gotten the oil when it comes to this kind of thing, and telling people to sit down, shut up, and be quiet is a good way to ensure disc gets tossed back into the same predicament they were in at MoP release, if not worse.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
They are essentially resorting to the tone argument.

I'm not sure why people think being meek, quiet, and uncomplaining will get blizzard to pay attention to the potential issues we will be facing should the PTR changes go live. That has never worked. Squeaky wheel has always gotten the oil when it comes to this kind of thing, and telling people to sit down, shut up, and be quiet is a good way to ensure disc gets tossed back into the same predicament they were in at MoP release, if not worse.


People tune you out and ignore you when you post wild (and sometimes wildly inaccurate) posts on the forums. Regardless of how right you may be, or how justified you feel, it's not productive. If we want them to listen to us, we have to speak to them on their level. If we act like a pack of screaming children, we won't get anywhere.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
They are essentially resorting to the tone argument.

I'm not sure why people think being meek, quiet, and uncomplaining will get blizzard to pay attention to the potential issues we will be facing should the PTR changes go live. That has never worked. Squeaky wheel has always gotten the oil when it comes to this kind of thing, and telling people to sit down, shut up, and be quiet is a good way to ensure disc gets tossed back into the same predicament they were in at MoP release, if not worse.


People tune you out and ignore you when you post wild (and sometimes wildly inaccurate) posts on the forums. Regardless of how right you may be, or how justified you feel, it's not productive. If we want them to listen to us, we have to speak to them on their level. If we act like a pack of screaming children, we won't get anywhere.


Frankly, the only person in this thread I've seen act like a screaming child is the paladin troll a few pages ago who behaved as if design and balance decisions should be made as a form of "justice" and "punishment" to certain classes, and the level 45 druid.

You do your fellow priests no favors when you brush off their every complaint as 'screaming children'. OP's post was a fairly calm and concise explanation of why they felt Disc has been gutted.

The only way to please the trolls would be to cry 'thank you for the nerfs blizzard - please sir, may i have some more?', so I'm not sure why anyone is trying to cater to them - they'll tune you out, ignore you, and post nonsense no matter how constructive your post is.
Edited by Niia on 1/18/2013 1:18 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Frankly, the only person in this thread I've seen act like a screaming child is the paladin troll a few pages ago who behaved as if design and balance decisions should be made as a form of "justice" and "punishment" to certain classes, and the level 45 druid.

You do your fellow priests no favors when you brush off their every complaint as 'screaming children'. OP's post was a fairly calm and concise explanation of why they felt Disc has been gutted.

The only way to please the trolls would be to cry 'thank you for the nerfs blizzard - please sir, may i have some more?', so I'm not sure why anyone is trying to cater to them - they'll tune you out, ignore you, and post nonsense no matter how constructive your post is.


You need to read more than this thread.

As far as the rest goes, you're free to feel that I'm somehow a "Priest Traitor" for doing my best to get our concerns heard. I don't really care if you believe that, although I do find it amusing as hell, considering some of the things I have been called in the past on the subject.

With that said, a reasoned, rational explanation of our issues, as well as information about how this actually feels playing the spec on the PTR, will go a lot further than multiple threads about how the sky is falling and Blizzard is ruining the spec.

I am not any happier with the nerfs than you are. But my question to you is...do you want to just throw magic missles into the darkness, or do you actually want to hit something? Should you waste your breath pitching an emotional line that is possibly inaccurate, and at best incredibly manipulative, or should you try a reasoned approach designed to show GC and the Devs why this isn't going to work for you?
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
I think Tiriel's post went right over your head, Niia. She in no way said "stop vocalizing your issues", she said "stop acting like children and post constructively if you want Blizzard- and your peers- to take you seriously."
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
01/18/2013 01:22 PMPosted by Tiriél
As far as the rest goes, you're free to feel that I'm somehow a "Priest Traitor" for doing my best to get our concerns heard. I don't really care if you believe that, although I do find it amusing as hell, considering some of the things I have been called in the past on the subject.


Oh come on now. Now you're the one resorting to hyperbole. I said nothing remotely of the sort, I simply explained to you why I feel constantly telling others to 'stop complaining' isn't constructive and why trying to please trolls is a waste of everyone's time. Please do not project your issues with other posters onto me and put words in my mouth.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Niia:
01/18/2013 01:24 PMPosted by Niia
I said nothing remotely of the sort, I simply explained to you why I feel constantly telling others to 'stop complaining' isn't constructive and why trying to please trolls is a waste of everyone's time. Please do not project your issues with other posters onto me and put words in my mouth.


01/18/2013 01:17 PMPosted by Niia
You do your fellow priests no favors when you brush off their every complaint as 'screaming children'.


You're saying you don't see what we're seeing here?
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
Niia:
I said nothing remotely of the sort, I simply explained to you why I feel constantly telling others to 'stop complaining' isn't constructive and why trying to please trolls is a waste of everyone's time. Please do not project your issues with other posters onto me and put words in my mouth.


You do your fellow priests no favors when you brush off their every complaint as 'screaming children'.


You're saying you don't see what we're seeing here?


Sure, I'm seeing me telling them that brushing off others complaints and jumping on people who just want to vent isn't constructive. I don't see any mentions of the wildly melodramatic accusation that they are a "priest traitor".

If you're going to complain about others "pitching an emotional line that is possibly inaccurate, and at best incredibly manipulative", it is probably best not to do the exact same thing when someone calmly criticizes your own behavior.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 01:24 PMPosted by Niia
As far as the rest goes, you're free to feel that I'm somehow a "Priest Traitor" for doing my best to get our concerns heard. I don't really care if you believe that, although I do find it amusing as hell, considering some of the things I have been called in the past on the subject.


Oh come on now. Now you're the one resorting to hyperbole. I said nothing remotely of the sort, I simply explained to you why I feel constantly telling others to 'stop complaining' isn't constructive and why trying to please trolls is a waste of everyone's time. Please do not project your issues with other posters onto me and put words in my mouth.


It has nothing to do with pleasing trolls, Niia, unless you honestly believe the Devs are trolls. Trust me, I'm reporting every flame-bait "hahaha u got nerfed suckah" post that I find. They are not needed.

But what exactly is a Dev going to come away with when they read posts like, "OMG U ARE RUINING DISC U HAVE GUTTED THE SPEC BECAUSE U HATE US" and then realizes said poster has never been to the PTR, has never tested the changes, and is basing their freak out on the patch notes alone?

It's completely fine and good to post, "I went to the PTR, and I tested these changes, and this is really bad for x, y, and z reasons." It's completely fine and good to post, "I went to the PTR, and I feel useless. I feel like I can't hold up my end of the bargain in my raids." It's completely fine and good to post, "I went to the PTR and I feel utterly lost. It seems like spamming bubbles is more effective than doing anything else. I don't want to bubble spam! Please don't do this!"

It's not perfectly fine or good to post accusatory posts directed at the Devs saying, "You have ruined Disc" without having tested the damn changes. For that matter, it's just not okay to go into this with an accusatory air, as though someone has personally come to hurt YOU.

You want to get the Dev's attention? Show them how this is working out for you. Show them why this is bad for you. Show them that this isn't a hostile relationship (because it should not be), but that you are upset/panicking/whatever because this is far too drastic a nerf. Give them something to go on without verbally attacking them.

Don't make this an us vs. them situation. Don't make the mistake that I have made in the past. In the end, a relationship takes both sides to work.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Niia:




You're saying you don't see what we're seeing here?


Sure, I'm seeing me telling them that brushing off others complaints and jumping on people who just want to vent isn't constructive. I don't see any mentions of the wildly melodramatic accusation that they are a "priest traitor".

If you're going to complain about others "pitching an emotional line that is possibly inaccurate, and at best incredibly manipulative", it is probably best not to do the exact same thing when someone calmly criticizes your own behavior.

Okay, I think you've just reached a new level of deluded.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
01/18/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Tiriél
But what exactly is a Dev going to come away with when they read posts like, "OMG U ARE RUINING DISC U HAVE GUTTED THE SPEC BECAUSE U HATE US"


Again, this is what I'm talking about. The OP doesn't type like that and made no mention of "YOU DID THIS BECAUSE YOU HATE US". I'm not sure why you are twisting his words.

Like I said - if you're going to jump on people for "pitching an emotional line that is possibly inaccurate, and at best incredibly manipulative", then don't turn around and do the exact same thing yourself when someone posts something you dislike. Let his words stand on its own without the snark, without putting words in people's mouths, and without twisting his comments.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 01:35 PMPosted by Niia
But what exactly is a Dev going to come away with when they read posts like, "OMG U ARE RUINING DISC U HAVE GUTTED THE SPEC BECAUSE U HATE US"


Again, this is what I'm talking about. The OP doesn't type like that and made no mention of "YOU DID THIS BECAUSE YOU HATE US". I'm not sure why you are twisting his words.

Like I said - if you're going to jump on people for "pitching an emotional line that is possibly inaccurate, and at best incredibly manipulative", then don't turn around and do the exact same thing yourself when someone posts something you dislike. Let his words stand on its own without the snark, without putting words in people's mouths, and without twisting his comments.


I will repeat again - because I don't think you caught it the first time - that you need to read all of the threads, and then come back to my post.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
01/18/2013 01:36 PMPosted by Tiriél


Again, this is what I'm talking about. The OP doesn't type like that and made no mention of "YOU DID THIS BECAUSE YOU HATE US". I'm not sure why you are twisting his words.

Like I said - if you're going to jump on people for "pitching an emotional line that is possibly inaccurate, and at best incredibly manipulative", then don't turn around and do the exact same thing yourself when someone posts something you dislike. Let his words stand on its own without the snark, without putting words in people's mouths, and without twisting his comments.


I will repeat again - because I don't think you caught it the first time - that you need to read all of the threads, and then come back to my post.


We are in this thread. You purposely referenced a portion of the OP's original post, twisted the words, retyped it in caps lock gibberish-speak, and then added on the 'BECAUSE U HATE US'.

I have read numerous threads on this over the past few days and have yet to see anyone make illegible netspeak posts accusing blizzard of nerfing disc because they 'hate' us. Stop moving the goalposts and stick to the facts of what OP posted.

You cannot honestly complain about "manipulative, inaccurate, emotional" lines when you turn around and twist people's words in this way. Its dishonest.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
We are in this thread. You purposely referenced a portion of the OP's original post, twisted the words, retyped it in caps lock gibberish-speak, and then added on the 'BECAUSE U HATE US'.

I have read numerous threads on this over the past few days and have yet to see anyone make illegible netspeak posts accusing blizzard of nerfing disc because they 'hate' us. Stop moving the goalposts and stick to the facts of what OP posted.

You cannot honestly complain about "manipulative, inaccurate, emotional" lines when you turn around and twist people's words in this way. Its dishonest.


I actually wasn't referencing his post. But it is clear that you're going to read things the way you want to read things. Fine, I am the enemy! The evil one! I have dared to ask people to be logical and reasoned, in the hopes that we will actually get listened to this time, instead of getting handed over-the-top buffs that set us up for this entire situation.

Do as you will.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]