Shuriken Toss is OP

90 Undead Warlock
13800
So is it the mechanic itself or the current numbers that is problematic?
Reply Quote
100 Orc Hunter
CLC
15120
01/04/2013 08:40 PMPosted by Klarana
I've always wanted to play a Ranged rogue


Hunters are pretty damn close right now.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Rogue
21875
01/05/2013 05:14 PMPosted by Methalos
So is it the mechanic itself or the current numbers that is problematic?

The numbers themselves aren't that bad, as a number of rogues have mentioned so far ST and the ranged auto attack doesn't hit that hard. The problem is the ability to apply poisons and debuffs at range. Rogue poisons are very difficult to remove if the rogue has uptime but are balanced around rogue's lower uptime, when you give rogues ranged uptime that balance equation breaks down.
Reply Quote
100 Undead Rogue
19110
So is it the mechanic itself or the current numbers that is problematic?

The numbers themselves aren't that bad, as a number of rogues have mentioned so far ST and the ranged auto attack doesn't hit that hard. The problem is the ability to apply poisons and debuffs at range. Rogue poisons are very difficult to remove if the rogue has uptime but are balanced around rogue's lower uptime, when you give rogues ranged uptime that balance equation breaks down.


If crippling was still 70% I would see a point and also all other ms effects but ours are undispelable as are all other melee snares. Plus it puts all poisons up on live anyway. Nothing is really going to change on this but rogues getting little more range dmg. Everything else works 100% the same.

If the debuffs from range were an issue they'd already be an issue on live.
Edited by Gankz on 1/5/2013 6:06 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
16315


The numbers themselves aren't that bad, as a number of rogues have mentioned so far ST and the ranged auto attack doesn't hit that hard. The problem is the ability to apply poisons and debuffs at range. Rogue poisons are very difficult to remove if the rogue has uptime but are balanced around rogue's lower uptime, when you give rogues ranged uptime that balance equation breaks down.


If crippling was still 70% I would see a point and also all other ms effects but ours are undispelable as are all other melee snares. Plus it puts all poisons up on live anyway. Nothing is really going to change on this but rogues getting little more range dmg. Everything else works 100% the same.

If the debuffs from range were an issue they'd already be an issue on live.


The problem with Shuriken Toss is how much damage Assassination Rogues are dealing from ranged, while poisons aren't a readily dispellable ability and are instantly reapplied, making it near impossible to kite a Rogue on the PTR.

As another Rogue stated, the balance equation breaks down when Rogues are given perma uptime on their poisons and the substantial on target uptime it provides, while making 1 of the 3 specs basically broken with it, dealing a very large amount of ranged damage.

Shuriken Toss is strong but it basically turns Assassination into the 4.1 Frost Dk that could run around Howling Blasting people to death. Sure, they did more damage in melee range, but if you try to kite them, you're still going to take a hefty amount of sustained damage output.
Edited by Bullettime on 1/5/2013 6:26 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Undead Rogue
19110
01/05/2013 06:24 PMPosted by Bullettime
Rogues are given perma uptime on their poisons and the substantial on target uptime it provides

What do you think the point in this change was?
Lets look at the melee mobility models feral, warrior, monk 15sec gap closer on top of even more gap closers. Dk, pally, enh low mobility/high cd gap closers, ranged utility, and decent range dmg.

Before 5.2 changes rogues didn't fit either model after they fit the second.

As for assassin dmg with it idk if its so good I'd call it broken.

But its ptr things will likely be tweaked, Oh wait this is blizzard things will be hotfixed after the patch goes live if needed lol.

The other thing to remember here is this range dmg/uptime comes at the cost of melee range burst this isn't something being made baseline you have to pick it over something. Just like everything rogues do something always comes with the cost of giving something else up.
Edited by Gankz on 1/5/2013 7:41 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
5195
Sounds like your crying to be honest.Anyone that plays one class and comes to the forums to cry about another classes "OP"ability is honeslty the one whos crying to begin with.Did you get owned by toss on the ptr and now with your professional experience is needs a nerf? whatever Im just sick of players thinking they know what is best for other classes and only come on the forums to say call OP on a ability they don't like.Where were you at when rogues sucked all xpack so far? Yeah thats what I thought..
Edited by Milar on 1/7/2013 1:55 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warlock
5195
01/04/2013 07:26 PMPosted by Pachainko
Want to nerf our auto swing damage too, I am pretty sure thats 10k per hit, and while we are here lets nerf backstab, I think I got a 15k crit once.


dont be so over dramatic!

ur getting how many 10k, non crit on full resil targets, attacks at RANGE before they even getting to close action where you're suppose to shine....
So stop crying because it needs to be fixed and you dont want it to be.


your a authority on what needs to be fixed are you?How long have you been a blizz developer? Just because toss owned you on the ptr dosent mean it needs a nerf. I think I would rather wait to see what the devs think about the ability being op rather than some random shaman qq'ing cause he got owned by a rogue.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
4490
can somone tell me how its diffrent from the way toss is now? I didnt think I read a toss buff in the ptr and rogues have toss now and are certainly not considered overpowered by anymeans there actually in a bad place currently hence the buffs they are getting. I just think people love to cry about rogues they always have. "ooohhhh noooooos 10k at ranged" so what if rouges can do damage now afar now I think its a good idea. ranged wants to be able to kite without problems and when it become a challenge they cry about OPness
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
01/07/2013 02:45 PMPosted by Millara
can somone tell me how its diffrent from the way toss is now? I didnt think I read a toss buff in the ptr and rogues have toss now and are certainly not considered overpowered by anymeans there actually in a bad place currently hence the buffs they are getting. I just think people love to cry about rogues they always have. "ooohhhh noooooos 10k at ranged" so what if rouges can do damage now afar now I think its a good idea. ranged wants to be able to kite without problems and when it become a challenge they cry about OPness


On the PTR, it makes all Rogue auto attacks for 10 seconds after activation have a 30 yard range, and also applies poisons and proc effects.

The constant auto damage and poison proccing is what's being complained about a bit on the PTR, mainly because of Assassination who's playing like the 4.1 Frost DK. Can do more damage in melee range but can still do damage at ranged and thus can't be kited while your health gets chipped away and you're permaslowed.
Edited by Bullettime on 1/7/2013 2:54 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
0
I just dont like the idea of a ranged slow that has no cd and they can spam it. Abilities like this no matter how little damage they do will always have huge consequences on pvp. Rogue should be more prevalent in rbgs at least for flag maps, perma slows on the enemy flag carrier or healer will be valuable.
Reply Quote
89 Human Rogue
5550
01/04/2013 06:32 PMPosted by Mafic
I want to see Ring of Peace and the improved ST go live for the lulz.


no thanks... those abilities are flat out ridiculous right now.
Reply Quote
01/07/2013 02:59 PMPosted by Bearbobagins
I just dont like the idea of a ranged slow that has no cd and they can spam it. Abilities like this no matter how little damage they do will always have huge consequences on pvp. Rogue should be more prevalent in rbgs at least for flag maps, perma slows on the enemy flag carrier or healer will be valuable.


Except that that is already live. Shruiken Toss can already do that. When you think about it, it's really not much different than perma-sprint, the ability to run faster than anyone else and be able to break any snares/roots attempting to slow you down. Or, for that matter, carrying a flag on foot while everyone else pursues on mounts. In the end, the flag carrier can't just run faster than everyone else and escape, they have to stop, fight, be protected/healed, have enemies peeled, etc.
Reply Quote
100 Human Rogue
13890
01/08/2013 03:10 AMPosted by Madcapmcgee
I just dont like the idea of a ranged slow that has no cd and they can spam it. Abilities like this no matter how little damage they do will always have huge consequences on pvp. Rogue should be more prevalent in rbgs at least for flag maps, perma slows on the enemy flag carrier or healer will be valuable.


Except that that is already live. Shruiken Toss can already do that. When you think about it, it's really not much different than perma-sprint, the ability to run faster than anyone else and be able to break any snares/roots attempting to slow you down. Or, for that matter, carrying a flag on foot while everyone else pursues on mounts. In the end, the flag carrier can't just run faster than everyone else and escape, they have to stop, fight, be protected/healed, have enemies peeled, etc.


Yeah ST already does that.

I think what hey are complaining about is the amount of pressure Assassination rogues can put out with auto attacks via poison damage, but they don't have dance so it kinda evens out.

I don't see how it is any different from fighting any other ranged class.
Reply Quote
01/07/2013 02:52 PMPosted by Bullettime
On the PTR, it makes all Rogue auto attacks for 10 seconds after activation have a 30 yard range, and also applies poisons and proc effects.


I haven't been following 5.2 developments or the PTR very closely. How does the version of ST on the PTR currently differ from what is live?
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
8535
01/08/2013 10:16 AMPosted by Vesada
On the PTR, it makes all Rogue auto attacks for 10 seconds after activation have a 30 yard range, and also applies poisons and proc effects.


I haven't been following 5.2 developments or the PTR very closely. How does the version of ST on the PTR currently differ from what is live?


This is what people are "up in arms" about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwRzAm41Wfk&feature=youtu.be
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Rogue
14810
I guess the only solution is to lower autoattack/poison damage and shift more into specials. It is the only way to keep us from being overpowered Shuriken Throwers.
Reply Quote
100 Gnome Warrior
12955
I'm not see ST as overpowered. A drastic change to how you fight rogues, yes. But not even close to overpowered.


This is what people are "up in arms" about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwRzAm41Wfk&feature=youtu.be


If you sit there and let any class unload on you, you will die. Not to mention the rogue would have killed him in half the time if he was in melee range.

What I find so interesting is that a non brain dead zero resillience healer in quest greens is unkillable to ST/DT. The Rogue class is still required to enter melee range to control/burst a target enough to kill them.
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
6350
01/08/2013 10:59 AMPosted by Violetta
I guess the only solution is to lower autoattack/poison damage and shift more into specials. It is the only way to keep us from being overpowered Shuriken Throwers.


I see what you did there ;)
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]