Inquisition's 30 second cap?

90 Human Paladin
6655
01/16/2013 05:50 AMPosted by Thermadin
learn the class better before crying about a simple buff to watch


I am not crying about it, I am just suggesting a simple change to the system. Like I said personally I have no problem with it in PvE it is second nature to refresh it, but in PvP I can understand how it can get frustrating. I never raged or whinged that it was impossible to use and I never said it was a stupid system, I was just throwing out an idea to see what other player's thought.
Edited by Hurrakane on 1/16/2013 11:09 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20855
01/16/2013 09:59 PMPosted by Syros
WE NEED those extra 15%. And although it is easy to maintain it while raiding (did I ever said it wasnt?), it costs too much resource for PvP

you have less than 9k HKs, you just got the 5k achievement. You have zero arena and rbg experience. You're new to the game. Inq isn't wrong, you need to learn how to use your spec.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
01/16/2013 11:08 PMPosted by Thermadin
WE NEED those extra 15%. And although it is easy to maintain it while raiding (did I ever said it wasnt?), it costs too much resource for PvP

you have less than 9k HKs, you just got the 5k achievement. You have zero arena and rbg experience. You're new to the game. Inq isn't wrong, you need to learn how to use your spec.


I love when people doesnt have valid arguments and then go "You dont know how to play/you dont have experience". So funny.

And btw, I played for almost 2 years, starting almost 5 years ago. Mostly focused on PvP, with a Paladin being one of my most played alts (Rogue was my main). So sorry if I didnt have 3 years to farm Achievements/HKs, but if you want to disagree with me, then make valid points.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20855
01/17/2013 10:38 AMPosted by Syros
"You dont know how to play/you dont have experience". So funny.

01/17/2013 10:38 AMPosted by Syros
but if you want to disagree with me, then make valid points.

Character Audit
6 unenchanted items
5 empty sockets in 3 items
Missing Living Steel Belt Buckle
Jewelcrafting: 2 unused Serpent's Eye

You're miles below hit cap, under exp cap.
again, your achievements show that you are pretty new to the game, in terms of doing much of anything.

This gives an idea that A) You don't care to optimize your toon so having issues with Inq isn't your problem, you just don't care to learn the spell. B) You don't know how to do the basics of your spec, giving you an issue with Inq, wanting your need of a buff to a simple manageable buff
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
As far as Savage Roar goes, if Savage Roar only cost Combo Points like Inquisition only costs Holy Power then it may be a valid comparison. But Savage Roar also costs 25 energy, which is a quarter of the Feral's resource bar that goes into ALL of their attacks. Using Savage Roar, even with the glyph, has a considerably higher opportunity cost than Inquisition (and I can say from experience that Savage Roar is much, much more annoying to maintain than Inquisition is due to that energy cost).
Edited by Keten on 1/17/2013 12:01 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9630
01/15/2013 11:45 PMPosted by Thermadin
NOTHING IS WRONG WITH IT STOP MAKING THREADS


If people felt nothing was wrong with it, they wouldn't make threads.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110

Character Audit
6 unenchanted items
5 empty sockets in 3 items
Missing Living Steel Belt Buckle
Jewelcrafting: 2 unused Serpent's Eye

You're miles below hit cap, under exp cap.
again, your achievements show that you are pretty new to the game, in terms of doing much of anything.

This gives an idea that A) You don't care to optimize your toon so having issues with Inq isn't your problem, you just don't care to learn the spell. B) You don't know how to do the basics of your spec, giving you an issue with Inq, wanting your need of a buff to a simple manageable buff


Oh, I just got Armory'd!

First of all, have you ever seen my PvE gear? Its garbage, mostly. So sorry, but I'm not going to spend 10k+ gold with enchants and upgrades in LFR gear, to do LFR. I still didnt get an 2h PvE either, thats why I'm using my T1 upgraded (since it was better than my hdung 2h mace upgraded). But I'm with both hit and soft expertise cap with my ret PvP equipment, with almost all enchants (still waiting bracer enchants price drop) and all gemmed (still waiting to learn the green resilience + power cut to replace those +320 PvP power however) and all upgraded (with the exception of my malevolent off-set).

And when did I ever said that my problem with Inquisition was PvE-wise? When ever did I said that ret was in PvE and use myself as an argument? Srsly, I live in Brazil (worst education system evah), "self taught" english and, apparently, I read better than some people here.

So yeah, still waiting about the valid arguments.

@Keten, again, I was comparing both glyphs.

Inquisition > reduce half of its damage boost.
Savage Roar > now you can use it without CP. Yeah, it does still costs 25 energy, but for a 12s 30% increase in all damage (all feral' damage are physical, right?), it sure is a DPS and utility increase (since you can use CP elsewhere), where I cant really see a reason to why pick Inquisition' one, its a large DPS loss for such, relatively, small utility.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
@Keten, again, I was comparing both glyphs.

Inquisition > reduce half of its damage boost.
Savage Roar > now you can use it without CP. Yeah, it does still costs 25 energy, but for a 12s 30% increase in all damage (all feral' damage are physical, right?), it sure is a DPS and utility increase (since you can use CP elsewhere), where I cant really see a reason to why pick Inquisition' one, its a large DPS loss for such, relatively, small utility.

Well, GC (or one of the other blues) said back in beta that the Inquisition glyph is meant to be a DPS loss, so that's totally intentional.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
01/17/2013 09:42 PMPosted by Thermadin
when did I say you said that


How about when you complained about my PVE GEAR not being enchanted/gemmed/reforged? Assuming that because of that I dont care about my performance, and therefore Inquisition wasnt my main *DPS* "problem" IN A PVE GEAR, therefore for RAIDING?

Or do you think I PvP with that gear? Even though I had a T1 wep fully upgraded?

@Keten, I dont mind the DPS loss really, I'm just saying its too much. In fact, I doubt you would find anyone using it, because like I said its too big of a DPS loss for such small utility. Savage Roar glyph on other hand is pretty useful. Doing a analogy, our Inquisition glyph it will be the same as making a Feral use 2-3x more energy (75-100) to use SR with 0 CP, but the glyph itself has no downsides other than not being able to use another glyph that could be more useful. Inquisition glyph however..

That is the disparity that I was trying to compare. I didnt suggest anything either, I just find funny how, both being glyphs for similar spells, ours its so worse; even though we probably need it most.
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90 Human Paladin
7110
Easy as 3.14159 to keep stay on top of in pve. Have not done organized PVP since Cata--got a late start to MoP. Does not feel right in pvp this expansion. But then again, pvp seems pretty messed up overall.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18460
01/17/2013 03:48 PMPosted by Tsura
NOTHING IS WRONG WITH IT STOP MAKING THREADS


If people felt nothing was wrong with it, they wouldn't make threads.


On the other hand, having an opinion doesn't make them right.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20855
01/18/2013 12:39 PMPosted by Syros
How about when you complained about my PVE GEAR not being enchanted/gemmed/reforged?

k.
you're in pvp gear.
Character Audit
3 unenchanted items
2 empty sockets in 2 items
Missing Living Steel Belt Buckle
Reforging
No items have been reforged.

xoxo
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14255
I agree OP. Inq is pretty much the reason I don't play my pally much anymore. In PVE it's easy enough to manage, but it does feel like a tedious chore more than anything. Doing BG's it's just unbearable. It's already a pain deciding whether your HP goes towards actually being able to hit something, or having to heal yourself, let alone keeping up a "buff" between all the CC's that are thrown around as well. I think in the time I usually have inq up in a BG I might be able to get off 1 TV with it hot if lucky, the rest of my HP usually goes to WoGs.

Frankly I think the biggest problem with Inq, is it feels like our class was nerfed for the sake of this ability, then balanced around it. If it was removed and a few of our abilities made slightly weaker I think we'd be a lot more FUN to play.

Notice the key word, FUN. I don't care how powerful we are, I never have. I'm not an end level raider, arena player, or RBG player. I don't care about how well the class performs at the end of the day. I played this class because in BC and Wrath it was fun. When blizzard reworked it in Cata it just felt like something completely different. I don't think ret is in a bad place at all, it just still doesn't feel fun to me, or like the class I originally rolled.

I don't get a lot of time to play with my work schedule and real life comitments, so leveling alts isn't something I can do readily. I did finally get a max level DK, and even though it's a lot easier to play, I still don't think it's as fun as the ret I recall from wrath.

Just my two cents though, from someone who's not an elitist. So feel free to armory and tear me apart and tell me L2P, which is probably true. However more of the player base is players like myself, than those of you that will be great at the game regardless of the changes blizzard makes to the class. Being rude to us doesn't help the discussion any.
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90 Human Paladin
6655
01/18/2013 05:50 PMPosted by Serovin
In PVE it's easy enough to manage


I agree completely it was my fault for even mentioning PvE because the only time it feels like an issue is PvP. Where as I said you don't have close to 100% uptime to smoothly generate HoPo and spend it the way you want like in PvE.

01/18/2013 09:55 AMPosted by Keten
Well, GC (or one of the other blues) said back in beta that the Inquisition glyph is meant to be a DPS loss, so that's totally intentional.


I think that the glyph is fine. Double the uptime of Inquisition for half the damage boost (But the crit chance increase remains the same which is nice) It's more 'Training wheels' for new ret's or I sometimes use it while doing dailies because I am lazy going from mob to mob.

But the point I tried to make was that it would be nice to raise the "Cap" of un glyphed inquisition so by spending a total 6 holy power you can raise the buff to a 1 minute, or close to, duration. It wouldn't be needed for PvE but in PvP the amount of times I finished a fight in a BG had spare holy power but had just refreshed Inquisition so I could only watch as the buff and holy power faded away as I was moving to the next objective, it's just frustrating.

But if you could spend that holy power with say 20 seconds left on your Inquisition to raise it to a 50 second duration that would give you more freedom to engage at full power when you encounter someone else.

k.
you're in pvp gear.
Character Audit
3 unenchanted items
2 empty sockets in 2 items
Missing Living Steel Belt Buckle
Reforging
No items have been reforged.

xoxo


Okay we get that you are a pro player and I admit that you are better than me, you have your challenge mode armor and we should listen to what you have to say and respect your advice.

But you are yet to give a clear argument as to why the idea I proposed would make Ret easier or buff them. I get that in PvE it is more than simple to manage Inquisition so forget that PvE was mentioned earlier that was my mistake. But you can't disagree that allowing paladins to spend the same holy power they would spend spend anyway to increase the duration past would be useful in PvP where you don't have 100% uptime to generate holy power or do damage.

So please either respond to this or stop attacking people actually making arguments for or against the proposed change. I don't mind if you disagree with my idea like I said it is just an Idea and I was throwing it out there. But at least make an actual argument rather than bullying people whose opinion's differ from your's.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
How about when you complained about my PVE GEAR not being enchanted/gemmed/reforged?

k.
you're in pvp gear.
Character Audit
3 unenchanted items
2 empty sockets in 2 items
Missing Living Steel Belt Buckle
Reforging
No items have been reforged.

xoxo


You just keep trying, dont you?

Funny thing is, you didnt even stop to see that I'm wearing MY OFF-SPEC HOLY SET. Which I'm still upgrading/buying and deciding where to go (reforge wise); I'm doing fine now, spirit, haste and mastery wise, so I dont see a desperate need to reforge them (I never complained about my performance as Holy neither). If you give a look as well, you would see that I'm using a LFR mace, which I'm not going to burn 5k in a enchant for it (1 of the 3 enchants missing), nor gonna spend my sha-gem on it (which I still didnt even get; 1/2 gem missing), the other enchants missing are expensive as well (like bracer and LS Belt Buckle - didnt have time to buy one from my malev shield; 3/3 enchants missing) and I need to go farm gems and ask a friend to transmute it on a meta gem to make one for my helm (which its just so boring and I'm neither going to spend 300g+ at AH for one if I can get one for free; 2/2 gem missing).

So yeah, just keep posting laughs videos and saying "L2p" in valid constructive feedback threads - you know, like you use to; you embarrass yourself when you try anything more than that.
Edited by Syros on 1/18/2013 8:00 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20855
im bad you shouldnt think otherwise lol.

On topic, with 4p pvp set giving you HP every 8 seconds, on top of having all of our normal HP generators having to use 3HPs to rebuff yourself with a 10% crit+30% extra holy damage every 26-30seconds isn't a big deal. It's like locks wanting 1minute dot duration because having to recast them on the same target is too much. You have ways to delong a battle if you need to use HP on wogs or refresh inq, you have ways to avoid putting yourself in a situation that forces you to never be able to refresh Inq when needed. You're not always in range of your target, you're not always needing to use your HP on finishers or heals. You're limited at 5HP, and TV only takes up 3 of them, you have 2 others to pool, it's player since of awareness that let's them control their HP not let it control them. CS and Judgement being such little cooldowns I know if I use a TV I still have 5 seconds of breathing room to use HP to refresh Inq or use a wog.

The duration of Inq isn't an issue. You have the ability to pool HP if needed when you need to refresh it. It is the players job to learn these skills and use them, not blizzards job to buff something because players are being lazy.

And let's be fair, the state pvp is at, if I pop my CDs, the target will be dead way before I need to worry about refreshing Inq lol
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
01/18/2013 07:54 PMPosted by Thermadin
And let's be fair, the state pvp is at, if I pop my CDs, the target will be dead way before I need to worry about refreshing Inq lol


There you go, thats a valid argumentation! Although unrealistic. Was that so hard?

I'm not saying its "too difficult to rebuff Inquisition and ffs make it EASIER!!11", but the OP proposal isnt even gonna make it 'easier' in the sense of need to rebuff it/manage your HP, only more forgiving. So you can buff it whenever you want and not be worried about wasting HP (at least on my point of view), which want it or not by the state of PvP on MoP, isnt that "easy" as you think it is to farm or manage your HP (in BGs, that is).

I personally think just removing the GDC is fine. Make it a little less buggy, so we wont rebuff with by accident and loss 3+ HP (which can help avoiding if GDC was off).
Edited by Syros on 1/18/2013 8:05 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20855
If you want Inq to be more forgiving, glyph it. It's why it's in the game, pre MoP blizz said the glyph was meant for new rets who have issues keeping it up and advance players have no need for it. Taking it off GCD would make it feel too easy(It's already easy), next thing would start other classes crying about their buff they need to keep up to be on off the GCD, forcing a landfall of just players wanting more and more things off the GCD. With how ret scales with haste, our GCDs are already pretty small, and it will only go faster as gear scales. They're already changing the buff to a smart buff so you can refresh it with a lower time, that's more than enough of them to tweak the spell.
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