Inquisition's 30 second cap?

90 Human Warrior
5980
So I was dusting off my paladin today and wanted to play around with the rotation a bit since changes in 5.2 will make it easier to have alts for PVP. But stinkin inquisition or any other buff that you need to babysit to do damage that warriors or death knights can do by mashing buttons bugs me.

What i'm saying is stuff like slice n dice, savage roar, inq needs to be purged.
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90 Human Paladin
6655
01/18/2013 07:54 PMPosted by Thermadin
im bad you shouldnt think otherwise lol.


Damn really? O_o I was kind of using your armory to decide what gems and enchants to buy xD

On a serious note though I can see where you are coming from about the glyph, but I feel like I am quite good at managing the buff, but i still feel like it controls me in PvP. I hope that with practice maybe I will get better at managing it.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13305
There isn't much wrong with the ability, the only problem the ability has is that it shares GCD. I like how the ability is since, it's very similar to how pally were in vanilla except that judgement then, was not on GCD like how Inquisition is.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7495
So I was dusting off my paladin today and wanted to play around with the rotation a bit since changes in 5.2 will make it easier to have alts for PVP. But stinkin inquisition or any other buff that you need to babysit to do damage that warriors or death knights can do by mashing buttons bugs me.

What i'm saying is stuff like slice n dice, savage roar, inq needs to be purged.


Pretty much sums it up.

I don't think it's that punishing for rogues in pvp to not have snd up, but it's still the same concept. It's really annoying in pvp because you have to be smart about when you do them due to ccs.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
01/19/2013 12:08 AMPosted by Positron
I don't think it's that punishing for rogues in pvp to not have snd up


It's very punishable. They need the energy regen from the haste. You can let Inq drop off, it's not the end of the world. You just want the most uptime % you can get as possible. If it's life or death or your target will die your next finisher, by all means push back refreshing and do what is needed to be done.

You guys also seem to forget while comparing SnD/Sroar to inq, inq only requires 3 maximum combopoints(ofc im saying HP is pretty much our version of combopoints) while SnD/Sroar is used for 5 combopoints. Those are also on the GCD.

you're comparing apples to oranges to be honest. Yes, they have similar ideas behind them, but they each do something completely different for each class.

What I'm saying is, Inq is fine. Learn it. Use it. Don't let it control you. :)
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90 Human Paladin
13525
Actually, I partially agree with the OP. If I have a spare point or so of holy power between pulls or whatever, why can't I use it to top off Inq?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7495
01/19/2013 01:08 AMPosted by Thermadin
I don't think it's that punishing for rogues in pvp to not have snd up


It's very punishable. They need the energy regen from the haste.



I don't think it's entirely necessary in the opener, but there are different specs and I've only played combat.

The number of points don't matter because you have to consider the rate and also the energy resource system. They aren't limited by cds. Only energy. That means provided they have the energy they can keep spamming abilities.

You're right it's different, but the self buff system is still the same. A buff you need to keep up which is something warriors don't have to do at all.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
01/19/2013 02:35 AMPosted by Positron
I don't think it's entirely necessary in the opener

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7dUN-AC5bno#t=52s

dem 2cp SnD openers~ why only 2? So he has the buff(better regen) at the start, even if he has to refresh it in half the time, it's still up

01/19/2013 02:35 AMPosted by Positron
That means provided they have the energy they can keep spamming abilities.

One could say the same for ret if given the needed amount of haste

01/19/2013 02:35 AMPosted by Positron
You're right it's different, but the self buff system is still the same. A buff you need to keep up which is something warriors don't have to do at all.

warrior is built around rage, give them the situation and they have an unlimited pool of resource at their finger tips
Edited by Thermadin on 1/19/2013 5:48 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
01/18/2013 08:20 PMPosted by Thermadin
If you want Inq to be more forgiving, glyph it.


Yeah, and losing at least 10% of my DPS? In PvP? Right, there is the only thing we need right now, less sustained DPS.

Its a boring, unfun mechanic, not matter how you see it. People are just trying to make it less of a shore and a little less unfun with different new mechanics (removing its GDC, raise its cap, make something to refresh it in certain occasions and etc. - a lot of buffs already are off the GDC, Idk why Inqui should be different or how it would cause a second cataclysm in WoW). Just make a poll here, I'm sure that more than half would vote for at least some small change on how the spell works and I dont see why people who doesnt find it such a problem would be upset because now its slightly "easier".

Its just complexity for complexity' sake, because ret its probably the easiest class to play; therefore bad design. And again, it has nothing to do with making it easier, but less of a boring mechanic. Removing GDC wouldnt make it easier, only remove the stress of it not buffing because you just used an attack spell and the GDC isnt gone yet (and to avoid losing a GDC to just rebuff it), you would still need to keep track on it and needing to rebuff it at every 30s - the whole "difficulty" of the spell. The same goes for the OP suggestion, it doesnt make it easier, but actually more strategical depending on the situation, since you can plan and manage your HP better when you have some banked and doesnt necessary need to use.
Edited by Syros on 1/19/2013 1:50 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7495
[
One could say the same for ret if given the needed amount of haste



You can't be serious. Are you saying it's possible to get rid of crusader cd entirely? Of course not.

It's a frustrating class really where we have to wait for some button to press while warriors don't have enough gcds to burn through and don't have a buff to keep up.

Rage is a joke. Particularly for arms. Heroic strike isn't even on the gcd either.

Having to press Inq in pvp is incredibly annoying and so incredibly anti-climactic.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9630
So I was dusting off my paladin today and wanted to play around with the rotation a bit since changes in 5.2 will make it easier to have alts for PVP. But stinkin inquisition or any other buff that you need to babysit to do damage that warriors or death knights can do by mashing buttons bugs me.

What i'm saying is stuff like slice n dice, savage roar, inq needs to be purged.


Pretty much sums it up.

I don't think it's that punishing for rogues in pvp to not have snd up, but it's still the same concept. It's really annoying in pvp because you have to be smart about when you do them due to ccs.


Yeah, this sums it all up quite well.
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100 Human Paladin
22765
We're more likely to get a small change with it rather than a overhaul, so starting with taking it off the GCD is a good start to see how that plays out.

On a side note, we'd likely see more paladins using it if there was a way to track it better in game instead of having to go find an add-on for it.
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90 Human Paladin
6655
01/19/2013 02:46 PMPosted by Positron
Having to press Inq in pvp is incredibly annoying and so incredibly anti-climactic.


I agree and although it is a nice buff to damage and our crit chance it kind of feels like the dev's balance Ret around the fact that we should have close to 100% uptime. If you look at it, it's such a massive steroid I mean 30% holy damage increase.

Few classes have a constant (when kept refreshed) 30% damage increase because let's be honest other than auto attacks all our damage is holy so it affects everything. But in saying that it doesn't feel like we are buffing anything.... to me it feels like when I put it up I am doing the damage that the Dev's intended for Ret.

It feels like it does nothing for me in PvP and yet I feel controlled by it, I just think that having the option to top it off would put the control a little more in my hands.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
01/19/2013 02:46 PMPosted by Positron
You can't be serious. Are you saying it's possible to get rid of crusader cd entirely? Of course not.

hahaha oh man. PvE once in awhile, you'll learn a thing or two

01/19/2013 04:48 PMPosted by Lughnasadh
On a side note, we'd likely see more paladins using it if there was a way to track it better in game instead of having to go find an add-on for it.

Every Ret should be using it, if you're not, you're bad, end of story....you don't need an addon to track it, look at your buffs ._.

01/19/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Syros
Yeah, and losing at least 10% of my DPS? In PvP? Right, there is the only thing we need right now, less sustained DPS.
Till you learn how to have a better %uptime you gotta do what you gotta

01/19/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Syros
Removing GDC wouldnt make it easier, only remove the stress of it not buffing because you just used an attack spell and the GDC isnt gone yet (and to avoid losing a GDC to just rebuff it),
I uh....you're ret. lol, you're never ever ever ever global locked ever single second...refresh it at 23seconds or 25seconds, you know, while HP generators are on CD and you're auto attacking for a few....

I can't tell. so what's the issue, having to refresh it every 30seconds, having to refresh it every 30seconds causing a global cooldown, having to spend 3 HP to refresh it ever 30second, or its too hard to manage and blizzard should just make it so lazy players can have better uptime
P.S. Syros, you completely avoided my comeback to rogues needing SnD up at the moment of combat starting D:
Edited by Thermadin on 1/19/2013 5:48 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
01/19/2013 05:33 PMPosted by Thermadin
P.S. Syros, you completely avoided my comeback to rogues needing SnD up at the moment of combat starting D:


What do you want me to say? And how that provides any argumentation against any QoL change to Inquisition?

They need it, of course, it provides melee haste (40% baseline) + energy recover (4/s).

It is still a less annoying mechanic for them. Although Inquisition has bigger uptime if you use with 2 and 3 HP than SnD with 2 and 3 CP, they still have more flexibility if they want to go up to 36s or not (and SR up to 42s, having a bigger uptime than Inqui in every stage), they still have ways to refresh it (assassination and glyph) and ways to make it better (sub mastery, another glyph that reduces all CP finishers GDC) if they really like using it;and without any sort of penalties like Inqui' glyph. But more important, its part of Rogue' design ever since TBC (I didnt play vanilla so I cant affirm that SnD was there), where Inqui just feels "complexity for complexity' sake" - which in turn, just make it extremely boring, annoying and somewhat prejudicial to use/keep it up in PvP, even though it provides a important buff (where SnD isnt totally mandatory).

And in the end of the day, one of the biggest problem with Inquisition comes to our mobility. A Rogue can be in stealth mode, can use abilities to gain instant 5 CP and even to transfer them to another target, they can generate much more CP in PvP in a sustained manner than we do with HP, considering that they are only limited by energy recovery, while we depend in a 15s CD and in a 6s CD ability most of the times, because want it or not, most of the time we are just going to be chasing players around, not being able to use CS or to make Art of War procs, considering how disproportional the long range vs. close range specs are doing BGs nowadays and how our mobility is much worse than a Rogue's, its nowhere near an excuse to keep inqui the way it is, just because SnD looks similar in paper.

Rogues are also pure DPS class, they dont depend their resources so much like we do just to do our 'second job', healing; where is our whole survivability stands. Where Rogues have other ways to surviving, which doesnt depend entirely in their CP generation, which is still a lot better than our HP generation in PvP, due to mobility and abilities differences. I do hope that FoL buffs would solve this problem though.

So I dont know really what you want me to say. I think people around here already suggest a lot of different ways to make it less annoying and unfun, which it is. If you want to look at is just by the difficulty spectrum, then I cant stop you. I also dont see any problem that those suggestions may cause, so why are you really against it? Its a QoL change, by any ways you look at it that wont interfere negatively in any scenario. Maybe the bug fix in 5.2 will solve this, maybe it wont be enough; but if people didnt bring it up so much, do you really think Blizzard would look up into it? If you doubt, check Eternal Flame, it has the same problem than Inqui and I didnt find any blue posts suggesting that it would get fixed.
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90 Human Paladin
8640
01/19/2013 08:40 PMPosted by Covahredro
How about having it scale with haste?, and there for increase its duration. Also have its GCD added to Sanctity of Battle. So haste would give it a slightly longer duration and a smaller GCD.


Wow, I really like that duration scaling with haste idea.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
21020
01/19/2013 09:26 PMPosted by Syros
Rogues are also pure DPS class, they dont depend their resources so much like we do just to do our 'second job', healing; where is our whole survivability stands. Where Rogues have other ways to surviving, which doesnt depend entirely in their CP generation, which is still a lot better than our HP generation in PvP, due to mobility and abilities differences. I do hope that FoL buffs would solve this problem though.

Clearly you lack pvp experience when you think the only job a rogue does is damage.
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90 Tauren Paladin
6130
can always use that amazing glyph!!
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