Inquisition's 30 second cap?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
It doesn't make it any more challenging, it just makes it clunky.


I never said it was making using abilities more challenging, only MANAGING them, because now it would give you more real options. And clunky? So, smoothing our "rotation" a slightly bit is making it clunkier? Why dont you explain to blizzard then? Because they clearly doesnt know what they are doing with all this GCDless game they have.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
With the amount of things on cooldowns currently in the rotation, you will have free gcds anyway and nothing to hit.


You just forgot a 'little' thing: you cant rebuff it everytime you want, YOU HAVE to wait it goes down to ~3s to rebuff it again with 2-3 HP Inqui. Thats why the OP' idea, maybe it wouldnt rebuff it with a lower version/cut our existing time (like it is now) or lock us from rebuffing it (like it seems to be in 5.2), but adding time to it, with a certain limit. This way we could use it in the situations you describe, without having to lose 10-20s of its uptime.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
Also, you can just smash your HP generators back to back and keep buffing 1 HP inquisitions until you get up to a reasonable number


It is still limited to 30s, so no "spam with 1HP Inqui until a reasonable number". And no, you cant. Unless you think keeping pressing a button every 8s is fun or easy to do in a PvP environment (since I'm not considering multiple changes to it - only the GDC removal or the cap increase), nor it will be easier to do than just using a 3 HP version in the first place. So again, OPTIONS. Most of the time in a BG/arena you will be using 3 HP Inqui, because using with 1 HP every 10s is a big pain in the s.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
because I do just fine pressing it after the gcd and not having to mahs it


I didnt say it happens every time, but it can happen and its annoying when it does. Removing it from the GCD will only make sure it is truly applied; nothing more. You still need to press the button, you still need to consider using a TV/WoG, you still need to built HP, you still need to think if a different HP version is better to that situation etc.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
Who only buffs inquisition at 1 HP? A 1 HP inquisition is just something you do in order to build up more HP to put up a longer one, or to get some extra damage on the 1-2 TVs you can put out in that time, It's a choice, it requires skill and thought. Do I use a 10s inq, can I get a kill in there or do I blow my HP on a longer one next because the fight will last longer? It's really not hard to "track, weigh, and buff it" at all.


And how removing it from GCD would change any of that? It is still a choice, it still requires "skill", but without the GCD is not such a "bad" choice again; after all you would still need to use 2 other more to get to 30s. Just the time you would waste (the 1-2s after it ends), the attention you would give to keep rebuffing it from every 8-9s and the HP consumption is enough to make it balanced with other HP options (even if you consider only using 1 HP Inqui). People wont start to spamming 1 HP inqui if thats your concern.

You won't have the holy power to do this unless you stockpile 5 and then buff straight to 50, but that's 5 attacks that you just lost 30% extra holy damage on. If the fight is going to last longer than 30 seconds anyway then you should plan accordingly and stockpile some HP to rebuff inquisition, which is again a skill and a choice.


Wtf? Who says I'm going to spend them all? Cant I use a 2 HP Inqui 5-10s later, after I generate them instead of banking them to 5? And how I lost 30% holy damage in 5 attacks if I didnt have Inquisition up before - after all "I'm buffing 50s straight"? And how this doesnt require/require less skill? You still have to analyze the situation and play "accordingly". It will be easier than buffing with 3 HP, then waiting 30s, and buffing with 2-3 again, maybe; but it will also be more riskier to do, you can die (and those 2 extras HP could save you life with a TV/WoG), you can lost a big part of it in cc's (when you still have more flexibility to when to use if you use the 3/2 HP Inqui separately) - therefore it is still a choice; unless you are psych and can predict what is going to happen in the next 50s that would always make you buff 50-60s straight.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
How the glob is it wasting holy power? Are you just sitting on 5 HP waiting for inq to fall off saying "Boy, I sure wish I could do damage with this, but my buff wears off in 20 seconds!".


I didnt say the GCD was wasting HP, but lets say you keep buffing 1 HP Inqui and you keep refreshing it when it goes down to 2s to avoid any 'surprises', thats 20% lost at every 10s. If you add time on top of it, like the OP proposal, you wouldnt. And want it or not, as a ret, we cant afford the luxury of losing HP in a PvP scenario; nor fixing a eye on Inquisition buff all the time or having to search it on the buff bar.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
What exactly doesn't work well mechanically about it? It seems fine to me and plenty of other players.


My english is terrible, but as far as I remember, "plenty" doesnt mean 3. And you clearly miss the part where Blizzard is fixing a bug on how it works (or the dozens and dozens of threads complaining about Inquisition), so yeah, it doesnt work well mechanically, no matter how much you and the other 2 people think it does.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
What if you have divine purpose and accidentally waste it because you hit your Inquisition button one too many times (Clipping HP)


You wouldnt need it if it was off the GDC. And how's that different from now? Oh, you are going to say that you NEVER reapplied Inquisition by accident (which is more likely than pressing it more than one time if its off the GCD)? And just because it is off the GDC, it doesnt mean that it cant have a CD itself to prevent that.

or you press it too early and the server doesn't recognize properly and puts up a 2 HP inq instead of a 3, I suppose you could just tack on that extra one, but that's just unnecessary at that point when you could just not make any changes to a perfectly functional ability and be fine. Things could also get weird with Holy avenger. Latency is a thing, why change a mechanic to be more punishing due to it.


Then is not a latency issue, but a package lost issue. If press CS > Inqui, the server will recognize that you used CS and then Inqui. To the rest, we cant make affirmations. If appears a problem with that, then dont do it. I'm trying to make it better, not to make it worse; but we cant predict things. Just the ability not generating a GCD would be nice, or having a faster GCD (Rogues have a 0.2s reduction in abilities that use CP, including SnD, through glyph, for example; or maybe like Emancipate). I doubt that after 8 years of WoW, the game would still act like that though, thats why the suggestions.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
In the amount of time it takes your brain to recognize you have 3 HP after a crusader strike and press inquisition is going to be approximately the same time as the current global cooldown


Is not the time that is the problem, is how unreliable it is when trying to buff in a PvP scenario. That answer can be given to any situation, yet we have all kinds of defensive and offensive buffs that are off the GDC for the same reason, being reliable when you press it.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
This is how the human brain functions and is a fact


Didnt know you are a neurobiologist, sorry then. Funny thing about our brain is that we can predict things and make up plans. So yeah, in a natural reaction, that may be true if we were mentally challenged or something. But if I know I have 2 HP and I know I'm going to use a Judgment, I know I'm going to get 3 HP and then I could rebuff Inquisition right off. Not an excuse.

01/22/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Lumierre
having nothing to do during global cooldowns feels much stranger than having to actually use an ability.


It already happens all the time anyway, specially in PvP where we cant go full haste. Not counting that this doesnt make any sense; so you want Inqui to be in the GCD so you can have something to use if you dont have any abilities up (even though the chances of this happening when you really need to rebuff Inqui being very small in a PvP scenario)?
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90 Human Paladin
5780
Inquisition is fine. It gives ret "flava." Otherwise we would be faceroll again and the community would complain we are "too easy" to play and we need a nerf. Sheesh!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9210
Inquisition is fine. There are no intelligent arguments against its current implementation.

And no, "I'm too lazy to hit a really good button twice a minute" is not much of an argument.


I must've missed that example argument of yours. All I have seen are valid points and concerns raised about a lackluster ability.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
Inquisition is fine. There are no intelligent arguments against its current implementation.

Actually, if it was changed such that using it again before it expired added on time instead of overwriting the buff, up to a limit like 3min or something, it could actually raise the skill cap more. Ideal play would then involve using HP on Inq to extend it while procs and CDs aren't available, and using TV while they are.

Would it be better, I dunno, but it could be interesting. Would concentrate yet more damage into CDs, though.
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90 Human Paladin
7870
Although I don't have anything specifically against the current implementation of inquisition, however it can be a little annoying at times in a PvP environment, what is really stopping blizzard from just baking the stats passively into Ret.

I don't believe taking it away as a usable ability would make our rotation less fun or more monotonous and I believe baking it into Ret passively would somewhat fix our low sustained damage in PvP and not really be a great deal of a DPS increase in PvE.

Thoughts?
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