Veroicone's Cookie Birthday Cake - Healer OT

90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
Yeah I'm not particularly impressed with the Thunderforge thing. I kinda feel that... the raid size you choose has very little to do with loot for most people. There are other reasons why 10s are more popular that have nothing to do with loot being the same.

Separate lockouts would more likely bring back GDKP runs than revive dedicated 25 guilds at this point.
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I can't believe how freaked out 10 man raiders are getting over the thunderforge thing and they don't have any idea of the drop rates for each raid size even are.

My pov is it is not going to help 25's at all. Silly that they wasted time with it in the first place.

edit: though i do like trolling their threads.


25 man raid leaders are begging Blizz to rethink it. They say it will make rotating in people nearly impossible, and increase loot drama to a ridiculous extent.
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Yeah I'm not particularly impressed with the Thunderforge thing. I kinda feel that... the raid size you choose has very little to do with loot for most people. There are other reasons why 10s are more popular that have nothing to do with loot being the same.

Separate lockouts would more likely bring back GDKP runs than revive dedicated 25 guilds at this point.


Maybe, but at least on the servers I was on in Wrath, people felt like they could do both - be in that progression-oriented 25 man guild, and still spend time with their friends in 10 mans. Merging lockouts has ended that.
90 Draenei Paladin
13095
My initial reaction was "Hey, they finally acknowledge that there's an organizational hurdle to raiding 25's! Neat!", but then I realized what this actually entails. Tiriel is right, it will make rotating people in harder (although loot drama can and should be stamped out by any decent GM/raid lead), but the main issue with me is:

Right now there is already a lot of mudslinging between 10- and 25-mans over imaginary slights. "Waaaah 25's have it so easy they get 3 battle rezes" "Waaaah 10's have it so easy they get more room on spread-out fights"... Why on earth are they giving these two sides a legitimate reason to be mad at each other?

I'm not really interested in pity loot, Blizz, I raid 25's because I find it more fun. 10's are challenging, but in my experience the community in such guilds is just really lacking.
100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
Yeah I'm not particularly impressed with the Thunderforge thing. I kinda feel that... the raid size you choose has very little to do with loot for most people. There are other reasons why 10s are more popular that have nothing to do with loot being the same.

Separate lockouts would more likely bring back GDKP runs than revive dedicated 25 guilds at this point.


Maybe, but at least on the servers I was on in Wrath, people felt like they could do both - be in that progression-oriented 25 man guild, and still spend time with their friends in 10 mans. Merging lockouts has ended that.

Yes, it's the merged lockouts, not the loot. 25s already have a smoother gearing process than 10s (how many weeks does it take you to start disenchanting gear? For us, it's 1, or maybe 0.)
Edited by Kaels on 1/24/2013 3:11 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Mage
11780
Guild has been planning to move to 25man (combining the two 10s and then getting a few other people).

Will be interesting ...
100 Pandaren Priest
19405
This is my contribution to the 10v25 discussion: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7709282055?page=44

Honestly, I don't need different gear, but I don't want Blizzard continuously trying to make 10s and 25s even because it's limiting to mechanics and just fuels mudslinging and argument.

E: I suppose, though, there is the possibility of balance issues.

And not to say I don't think making 10s objectively harder is also a way to go about it, but obviously I'm biased towards my raid size.
Edited by Kerias on 1/24/2013 3:40 PM PST
90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
I still like the idea of a return to XYZ raid is this size, ABC raid is this size.

Similar to how things were in Vanilla/BC, but with an evenly divisible number:

Raid A, B, and C are 20 man raids. Or perhaps 30 man.
Raid E, F, and G are 10 man raids. Or perhaps 15 man.

These are 6 different raids (not all released at same time) that offer 2 different levels of challenge, 2 different levels of loot, 6 different environments and opportunities for forwarding lore.

Guilds can raid all of these instances, or only the ones size that appeals to them without issue. There is no difficulty with splitting or combining teams because things are evenly divided, and the fights are created to cater to that.

No shared lockouts to duplicate content leading to boredom, no drama over splitting an uneven number of ppl in to 2 smaller groups. More content to see, but difficulty not determined by size. Raid E might be much harder than Raid C, and Raid A might be much harder than Raid F, and Raids G and B can be the same level of difficulty.

Because the raid bosses are unique and balanced for that size raid, there can be no "this boss is harder on 25 mans than 10 mans!" or any of that nonsense.

It sounds like fun to me, but perhaps, way too much work for the dev team to implement that kind of system at this stage. And people might hate it. I'd like it though. :P
Edited by Fluffy on 1/24/2013 4:03 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Mage
17990
I can't believe how freaked out 10 man raiders are getting over the thunderforge thing and they don't have any idea of the drop rates for each raid size even are.

My pov is it is not going to help 25's at all. Silly that they wasted time with it in the first place.

edit: though i do like trolling their threads.


25 man raid leaders are begging Blizz to rethink it. They say it will make rotating in people nearly impossible, and increase loot drama to a ridiculous extent.


It's so dumb it's beyond belief. There isn't a single 10 man guild that will switch back to 25 because of this.

Honestly, the only thing that might entice people back is separating the lockouts again.
100 Blood Elf Mage
17990
Yeah I'm not particularly impressed with the Thunderforge thing. I kinda feel that... the raid size you choose has very little to do with loot for most people. There are other reasons why 10s are more popular that have nothing to do with loot being the same.

Separate lockouts would more likely bring back GDKP runs than revive dedicated 25 guilds at this point.


Maybe, but at least on the servers I was on in Wrath, people felt like they could do both - be in that progression-oriented 25 man guild, and still spend time with their friends in 10 mans. Merging lockouts has ended that.


*Exactly*

And honestly, it killed a lot of the social interaction on our medium population server. Our guild has always been a 10 man guild, but we would all look in trade for 25 man pugs. It was very fun.

They used this BS line of "oh too many people felt required to do both to get geared." Well guess what. You replaced that with us feeling "required" to run dailies instead. I'd much rather pug some 25s (or vice versa for those in guild 25s) than run dailies to valor cap / get extra loot.
90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
I'm honestly scared of them separating the lockouts again. I already don't have time in my week to do dailies every day or even fully complete the LFR in addition to my guild raids. To add another (what would be mandatory) lockout on top of all that?

*keels over*
100 Blood Elf Mage
17990
If they separated the lockouts, I would stop doing dailies and raid instead to get my valor. That would be *wonderful*
90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
Unless they reduced the valor you get from raiding because they want you IN THE WORLD.

Or made it so you could only get valor from boss X once per week.
100 Blood Elf Mage
17990
One of the stated explanations for merging the lockouts was that "oh noes, people felt like they *had* to run both".

Well now people feel like they *have* to run dailies.

IMO, they should make all of these options available and let people gear / cap in the fashion most enjoyable to them.
90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
I can't play every day so I don't cap valor. It's as simple as that. =/

If I could do it from doing a GDKP on a Saturday morning like in wrath, I might be able to cap every other week or so. :3
90 Draenei Shaman
16765
I don't dislike Thunderforged much at all. The only drawback I see is that this seems likely to replace VP upgrades which I actually liked.

One of the stated explanations for merging the lockouts was that "oh noes, people felt like they *had* to run both".

Well now people feel like they *have* to run dailies.


That's a good point. Apparently they don't like the idea that the guild main tank will be the most perpetually burdened raider though. I see what they mean, but it just seems weird to intervene in what mature adults should be able to settle through schedules or whatnot. But raiding guilds can be so demanding.

Despite all this, I'd say the shared lockouts was the single greatest contributor to stagnating content. Ah well.
90 Gnome Priest
11895
Amber-Shaper down

Except then his corpse despawned :C
90 Draenei Shaman
12770
NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... !!!!!
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Amber-Shaper down

Except then his corpse despawned :C


NOOOO!!!
90 Gnome Priest
11895
GM resolved it. Protector token and DPS plater shoulders. Nyeh.
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