Veroicone's Cookie Birthday Cake - Healer OT

90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
Damn, no one knows the true power of UP classes.

Top Healing charts: Damn, pick it up baddies
Bottom of HPS charts: Just as expected, this class sucks.

The disc priest tears are delicious btw.
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/18/2013 04:05 AMPosted by Kungfuwaifu
The disc priest tears are delicious btw.


No need to go that far but it is kind of silly. Not like anyone should be surprised. Never want to see a class nerfed hard but all in all it needed to be done as it was just way to out of whack.

Priests seem to bring emotional players i guess. Hence the endless "destroyed, gutted, broken" threads.
90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
It's the same for all OP healers, I'm trying to decide whether the PoH nerf was worse than the RM nerf of 5.1 lol
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/18/2013 04:25 AMPosted by Kungfuwaifu
I'm trying to decide whether the PoH nerf was worse than the RM nerf of 5.1 lol


Well mw's needed to be brought in line as well. Should end up being about the same in the end.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
Honestly I don't mind the nerfs. I'll still keep playing the class. I would however, enjoy having control over my shields. Even if they're significantly weaker. My paladin's mastery is just so much more fun.
90 Worgen Priest
9630
01/18/2013 04:22 AMPosted by Sadiemay
The disc priest tears are delicious btw.


No need to go that far but it is kind of silly. Not like anyone should be surprised. Never want to see a class nerfed hard but all in all it needed to be done as it was just way to out of whack.

Priests seem to bring emotional players i guess. Hence the endless "destroyed, gutted, broken" threads.


And there weren't just as many MW/Druid outcry threads?

Lol.

I'm glad for the nerfs, perhaps a bit anxious but meh... Priest is my favorite class. :3 Although, I've only ever brought a druid to max level (last exp) so my view could be a bit bias. :p
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/18/2013 06:24 AMPosted by Fluffychoo
And there weren't just as many MW/Druid outcry threads?


Maybe half as many but still a bunch. The priest ones go crazy quick. Funniest part about it is priests would be in a good place now if they didn't freak out so hard at the start of the expac as they have always scaled better with gear.
90 Human Priest
17065
I need to stop grumbling about bads QQing for the wrong fricking reasons with the wrong frickin examples. Would've been better if they flat out don't post instead of making it look worse. >.<

/deep breath
/hot chocolate

Ahhhh....

Slightly worried about the nerfs. Fortunately I've never been a part of the spam POH for justice type and have always been more of a surgeon strike healer. My spell choices probably won't change much. Sigh.

Why can't we just get the paladin mastery as baseline disc and be off? =(
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/18/2013 07:13 AMPosted by Zamboozle
Slightly worried about the nerfs


I don't think it is as bad as people are making it out to be. Would venture a guess that a large portion of the people complaining have yet to log onto the ptr and test anything out.
90 Human Priest
17065
Slightly worried about the nerfs


I don't think it is as bad as people are making it out to be. Would venture a guess that a large portion of the people complaining have yet to log onto the ptr and test anything out.


I won't say it's gamebreaking, but if the current changes goes in it's going to hurt, a lot. Mostly because the majority of a disc's healing (in a 25 anyway, fight depending) is DA and SS.

BUT, some mitigating factors have to be taken into account:

Truth: For some darn reason nearly all HOF bosses seems to be a built around SS with ample time for massive absorb racking. So numbers are bloated.

Truth: Outside of SS racking, DA is the other main culprit with its easily rollable, 100% present with POH spam. This is particularly evident in 25s where the healer corp can spare disc for that purpose and that purpose only. It is possible to roll a DA to infinity and beyond just to soak any stray damage out. This is basically absorption at its absolute optimal scenario: controllable and predictable to a point of silliness.

Truth: Without 100% POH-DA and SS, the 'raw healing' a disc priest does is really distressing low when compared to the other healers (in a 25 scenario).

Truth: Disc has unlimited mana that facilitated such bloated numbers

So with all of the above in mind and the new raid unknown, it's hard to say how well 'disc will do'. If we get more tsulong-valithra-lei shi fights I'm quite sure most discs are gonna cry in a corner or fall back to tank heal. But with all the current changes that makes the controllable, 'on-call' part of a disc absorb useless, mana fixed and SS going down. I can't help but feel it's an overkill on Blizz's part. In reality they just need to fix three things:

1) mana - fixed.

2) Disc's rolling DA - make it unrollable (aka separate buffs for each DA that runs out by itself with a short duration, like 5 seconds) so there is ZERO incentive to cast it 'just for the bubble'. Sure theoretically you can rack 2(?) buffs up on ONE group but that will simply be just a waste. But at the same time during 'pulsing damage' fights, those DAs will still be effective and eaten up as the priest AEs. Which is better than zeroing all procs and making it crit based, - that just makes it controllable and unpredictable - and absorbs don't work with those two things. When you make things RNG for a healer, a healer learns to not expect anything out of it at all because unlikes a DPS where it's 'SCORE, EXTRA DPS', it's "CRAP, it didn't crit when I wanted it to and the dude is dead!"

3) SS too strong - lower the hp cap for it, or something (I've been saying this spell shouldn't have existed in its present form since times unknown. Unlinking it from mastery further devalues our mastery. Or buff it up so it's a raid-level CD with a longer cooldown.

or something. The current 'fixes' just doesn't jive with me. Gives me the feeling that blizz is trying to dance around a mech overhaul by doing something that is causing an equal amount of upset but not helping the root of situation.
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/18/2013 7:57 AM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Gives me the feeling that blizz is trying to dance around a mech overhaul by doing something that is causing an equal amount of upset.


I raid 25's as well, with 2 disc priests to boot. The way this tier was designed it is ALL burst damage that lines up just about exactly with SS. Which is what makes it too damn good. For constant pulsing damage, ala galaron h protectors the other classes are much closer.

And on a side note i think one of the keys that caused this was that the iconic heal, pw:s was simply being used as a regen mechanic and not a core part of the rotation. wouldn't be surprised to see disc stacking crit next tier and just working their way around the change.
Edited by Sadiemay on 1/18/2013 8:04 AM PST
90 Human Priest
17065
I have never, and will never, agree with a RNG stat being the core stat of a healer.

Unless it is smart heals, and no atonement doesn't count. I'm talking like a monk where outside of direct nukes, nearly everyone is automated. That way, the crit heal will actually synergize with the 'automatically heal lowest HP player" thing for max effect.

Absorbs being RNG base is just...horrible. Horrible horrible horrible.
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/18/2013 08:20 AMPosted by Zamboozle
I have never, and will never, agree with a RNG stat being the core stat of a healer.


I was of this mindset for a long time myself. And everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you look at crit singularly, it is a terrible rng stat. When you look at it in 15 minute segments, it paints a much different picture.
90 Human Priest
17065
Well, keep in mind that to alleviate some of the the RNGness of crit. Disc has Inner Focus which makes your crit 100% for that one cast. Any disc worth his salt is going to use that for that one burst which he KNOWS his spells won't overheal (or at least try to anyway). Ironically with this one spell that guarantees a crit, it actually devalues crit as a stat (if it's not for the fact that SS scales with crit it would've have been good). If you need to look at how effective the crit stat alone is, you'll need to find a log and take out all the '100%' stuff (IF healed and their DA, POH and their DA) and see how much healing the 'raw non IFed' crits effectively healed for and how much the related DA healed for. Then you'll be prolly closer to 'the truth'.
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/18/2013 8:45 AM PST
100 Tauren Druid
19365
Yeah, druids are just as whiny as priests when hit. I still remember the outrage over the Wild Growth nerf in Cata. Mind you, I thought a nerf was needed, and I greatly disliked the double-whammy of base nerf plus the nerf to the glyph, but that whole episode drove me away from the druid sub-forum, pretty much permanently.
90 Worgen Priest
9630
01/18/2013 08:44 AMPosted by Pipikaula
Yeah, druids are just as whiny as priests when hit.


Ty!

Every and any class when hit with a nerf is going to feel a sense of distraught, even when said nerfs are needed. Some more than others but this is the internet, people. We're all a bunch of entitled whiners at some point or another. Oh, the anonymity! :D
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
01/18/2013 08:29 AMPosted by Sadiemay
I was of this mindset for a long time myself. And everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you look at crit singularly, it is a terrible rng stat. When you look at it in 15 minute segments, it paints a much different picture.


Indeed. Numbers and theory are all well and good, but actually try putting something into practice before making judgment calls. Crit is fairly strong for 10m Disc, ridiculously so on any fight with damage modifiers.

01/18/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Fluffychoo
Every and any class when hit with a nerf is going to feel a sense of distraught, even when said nerfs are needed


I remember Paladins complained when Holy Radiance's mana cost was increased in T-13, lolol, most negligible change in the world and they cried.

I'm overall new to WoW, but the only time I ever felt a healer was justified in their complaints was T12 10H Shamans. The Druid tears of T-12, the Paladin tears on the Beta for MoP, the Priest tears right now, so delicious. Oh yeah, monks were pretty hilarious too not that long ago with their Q_Q
90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/18/2013 09:16 AMPosted by Qùess
T12 10H Shamans.


That was no where as bad as pre buff t11. And still you didn't see much about it. Shaman tend to hide because we are the red headed step child.
90 Human Priest
17065
01/18/2013 09:16 AMPosted by Qùess
Crit is fairly strong for 10m Disc, ridiculously so on any fight with damage modifiers.


Damage modifier means you will be smiting, and for that to be optimal a completely different setup of stats are better (see: holy chakra dps discussion). haste/crit etc. While it's still healing that's a little different from the conventional "I cast a heal and expect my target's HP bar to go up". With the smartheal where it automatically goes for the lowest HP target, you'll naturally want it to crit and crit big because chances are the target is low. I think monk's best stat is crit...? That works on the same logic. But for conventional healing (I raid 25s) where I have control on who I am healing, having my 'premier feature' to crit just...doesn't...jive.

DA procs on crit heals. It's not reliable and I'm not going to cast a 20k heal and hope for a 40k crit to 'make it'. That's a dangerous way of thinking.

Most crit heals are overheals (unless controlled and expected, or on somebody like a tank)

Your bubble that absorbs damage just went up on somebody that you just overhealed...

At that point I look at the paladin mastery and just want to kick a puppy.
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/18/2013 9:37 AM PST
90 Draenei Shaman
9040
01/18/2013 09:22 AMPosted by Sadiemay
T12 10H Shamans.


That was no where as bad as pre buff t11. And still you didn't see much about it. Shaman tend to hide because we are the red headed step child.

yep, we come out and tend to get nerfed again or right after we were nerfed and trying to show numbers that the nerf was beyond overdone
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