Fact: This is what 'mushrooms' need

100 Night Elf Druid
18455
1) To NOT be clunky. Placing 3 things/taking 3 globals ISN'T VIABLE.

2) More healing, or better healing overall.

It should be plant 1(or 3) with ONE click/placement.

It'd be nice if they would explode on their own either as a smart heal(when people need) or perhaps pulse with some sort of AOE healing when they are down. Or if they MUST be 'bloomed' then leave a healy circle in that area.

All this "Aborb over heals" etc etc while still being CLUNKY isn't gonna work. I expect them to be just as useless.

We also shouldn't be WANTING to overheal..........

The clunky is what Druids always complain about, so go back and find a way to make them less clunky!
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100 Human Paladin
13820
What I think would be a good idea regarding Wild Mushroom healing:

-- Reduce the amount of Wild Mushrooms placed down to 1, and increase the radius of said Wild Mushroom by 5-10 yards. When placed, the Wild Mushroom will have 3 stacks of Bloom active, and will recharge a stack of Bloom every 10 seconds.

-- When placed, the Wild Mushroom will heal all allies standing within its radius for a small amount every 2 seconds. This healing will have diminishing returns when healing more than 6 players at a time.

-- Remove the cooldown on Wild Mushroom: Bloom, but give the ability a 1.5 second cast time. When you use Wild Mushroom: Bloom, the active Wild Mushroom will send out a pulse of healing to all players within its radius, healing for a significant amount (it should be more mana-efficient than using Rejuvenation when healing 4+ targets). Using Wild Mushroom: Bloom will consume 1 stack of Bloom from the Mushroom, and the Wild Mushroom will disappear if all stacks of Bloom are removed.
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1) To NOT be clunky. Placing 3 things/taking 3 globals ISN'T VIABLE.

2) More healing, or better healing overall.

It should be plant 1(or 3) with ONE click/placement.

It'd be nice if they would explode on their own either as a smart heal(when people need) or perhaps pulse with some sort of AOE healing when they are down. Or if they MUST be 'bloomed' then leave a healy circle in that area.

All this "Aborb over heals" etc etc while still being CLUNKY isn't gonna work. I expect them to be just as useless.

We also shouldn't be WANTING to overheal..........

The clunky is what Druids always complain about, so go back and find a way to make them less clunky!


With the new mushrooms, you're not gonna be spending 3 GCDs to place them and immediately popping them for healing, you're gonna place them early and pop them when they've built up healing power and you need the healing. If your raid isn't stupid, they'll head towards the giant mushrooms during periods of big damage if they can, and since the mushrooms get huge, they make obvious stack points anyway. So you just have to find 3 open GCDs at any point and then burst the mushrooms when you need them.

As for overhealing, Druid's are going to overheal a ton with Rejuv no matter what, since HoTs are easily sniped. Letting Rejuv overheals add healing to mushrooms does a great deal to make a Druid's HoTs more worthwhile, since they overheal a lot anyway.

My only gripe is that the range is so small, but if your raid is competent enough, you should easily be able to get a nice burst of healing off. The three mushrooms will cap at the Druid's max health. You have 400k, so that's a 400k heal split between people, not too shabby. You can also drop them near the tank and watch his health bar skyrocket after a burst.

The new mushroom design seems pretty good.
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90 Troll Druid
11860
1) To NOT be clunky. Placing 3 things/taking 3 globals ISN'T VIABLE.

2) More healing, or better healing overall.

It should be plant 1(or 3) with ONE click/placement.

It'd be nice if they would explode on their own either as a smart heal(when people need) or perhaps pulse with some sort of AOE healing when they are down. Or if they MUST be 'bloomed' then leave a healy circle in that area.

All this "Aborb over heals" etc etc while still being CLUNKY isn't gonna work. I expect them to be just as useless.

We also shouldn't be WANTING to overheal..........

The clunky is what Druids always complain about, so go back and find a way to make them less clunky!


2 things -

The one-click is a great idea even at the expense of added cooldown time.

The radius is still a serious concern. Every raid isn't Method with perfect stacking. Since it's an instant heal the only visual cues are larger shroons and I really don't think that helps much in terms of people being aware with tons of crap going on. Perhaps pulsating blinking shroons haha...
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
0
01/12/2013 07:29 AMPosted by Flintte
The new mushroom design seems pretty good.


Well it certainly adds depth, I'll give you that.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
[/quote]

2 things -

The one-click is a great idea even at the expense of added cooldown time.

The radius is still a serious concern. Every raid isn't Method with perfect stacking. Since it's an instant heal the only visual cues are larger shroons and I really don't think that helps much in terms of people being aware with tons of crap going on. Perhaps pulsating blinking shroons haha...[/quote]

Well, that can be remedied easily by the raid leader having a brain. Have them put down a marker on stacked fights or even non stack fights and use that as a mushroom point. Most fights have some sort of stack phase, and if they don't, then the fight isn't conducive to shrooms anyways, and you shouldn't use them.

I agree with the 1 click since it is the same as a shaman putting down healing rain, a holy priest with sanctuary, etc. Perhaps give it a short cast time to balance that. like 1 second or .5 secs like lightwell, so that you have to stop for at least a second.

10-15 yard range would easily make the spell usable, though. (on the bloom)
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90 Worgen Druid
16405
I really am not overly impressed with the current ptr mushrooms. It is nice to have our overheal count toward something, I guess. It is still abnoxiously clunky, and that radius is just underwhelming.

It seems the more who stack on the mushrooms, the smaller each heal is. How will this pan out in 25 man? Whats the cap for the number of players it hits before DR?

I would like to see some attention given to all of our toolkit, not just the repeated attempts to fix something that is so awkward at the moment to use, its actually made the spell highly disliked.

It is a tad funny to see such a large mushroom and then to see this tiny little bloom radius under it.

Maybe give the mushrooms a "spore" affect that acts like a small non-healing hot for a limited time. This non-healing hot would still interact with our other spells like giving nourish the 20% boost similar to rejuvenation. Just a "wild" idea.

Admittedly I am still testing on ptr and seeing what adjustments the devs throw our way.
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90 Night Elf Druid
16280
While 400k burst healing may be sufficient in 10s, the fact is, it's pathetic in 25s. Each mushroom needs to hold 400k HP alone to make it potentially viable in 25s. Other than as a tool for tank healing I cannot see these becoming useful the way they are now.

For a fight light Feng where you will have the majority of the raid stacked most of the time, all 3 shrooms, fully grown, will hit everyone for about 20k or less. At best it will be meter padding, certainly not a tool for keeping people alive.

Radius should also be massively extended.

Been messing around with shrooms on ptr, still very let down by all this. Resto druids scale horribly in 25s and we are getting nothing to help there.
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100 Night Elf Druid
12720
Blooming for 400k isn't the problem. It's Blooming for 400k and hitting 25 raiders for 5k per shroom that's the problem. Don't design it to have DR like Healing Rain when it's not meant to fill that role.

Take away the DR, give them a target cap of 5 per shroom, and make them heal the lowest health targets within 10 yds. I'd rather heal 15 raiders for 20-25k per shroom than 25 for 5k. 5k is negligible healing. 20-25k is 1 tick of Rejuv. That's pretty decent for an instant burst heal off the GCD.
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100 Night Elf Druid
16245
This healing mushroom idea has been unpopular since day one. I'm not sure why ActiBlizzard insists on forcing it on us. So now I have to plant 3 mushrooms, then roll 3 lifeblooms, then make sure that I overheal by spamming rejuv that costs mana I don't have and then hope that my raid will be in the correct spot. And all because the development team takes the lazy road by recycling a clunky wild mushrooms spell that balance druids also hate.
Seriously, the current development team needs to be replaced.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
17420
This healing mushroom idea has been unpopular since day one. I'm not sure why ActiBlizzard insists on forcing it on us. So now I have to plant 3 mushrooms, then roll 3 lifeblooms, then make sure that I overheal by spamming rejuv that costs mana I don't have and then hope that my raid will be in the correct spot. And all because the development team takes the lazy road by recycling a clunky wild mushrooms spell that balance druids also hate.
Seriously, the current development team needs to be replaced.


No, they're intended to be there so your overhealing can be used for something. They're not intended for you to overheal just to overheal for them.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14025
01/12/2013 05:29 PMPosted by Sensations
No, they're intended to be there so your overhealing can be used for something. They're not intended for you to overheal just to overheal for them.


Mushrooms were originally to fill a gap in our toolkit, they've failed miserably so now this overheal thing is being tacked on in an attempt to make them useful for something. Anything. Unfortunately without mechanic changes it'll still be bad.

01/12/2013 05:25 PMPosted by Tazor
This healing mushroom idea has been unpopular since day one.


Amen that.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15490
We don't aim to overheal, but it's unavoidable if our heals get sniped and Blizzard sees that. The idea about compensating the overhealing we get from HoTs is great. I never liked mushrooms from the get go, but i'm giving it a chance. Instead of placing the mushrooms down, can't the druid get a buff that stores the overheal then be able to put down the mushrooms when we want it to unleash the healing?

The main reason why they seem clunky is because of raid movement and something like that would fix it. This idea is from the top of my head and it's not that good. Just trying to spark some ideas of what people think we need. I just want to solve the issue with movement and it being a for sure go-to spell.
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100 Orc Shaman
HC
17420
Mushrooms were originally to fill a gap in our toolkit, they've failed miserably so now this overheal thing is being tacked on in an attempt to make them useful for something. Anything. Unfortunately without mechanic changes it'll still be bad.


Every healer has a gap in their toolkit, it's a part of the design. Mushrooms weren't made to fill that gap but help with it, the new mushrooms sort of do both in a smaller manner but also address over healing.

Honestly the many many different druid arguments I see on these forums seem to boil down to, "I want to be able to do everything." Sadly that's not how healer balance is. Although these shrooms seems like they won't do much for 25m as much as 10m but blizzard will probably change them a couple more to help with a gap but not fill it(Maybe even drop the whole "3 mushrooms" idea.
Edited by Sensations on 1/12/2013 6:26 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
14025
Yes, yes, that same old argument. I'm well aware of it. Perhaps I should have said "help" rather than "fill" because I agree mushrooms were never intended to be a fix just as the devs don't want them to be rotational. But they are still supposed to fit somewhere into the burst healing department and they are still failing.

01/12/2013 06:16 PMPosted by Sensations
Honestly the many many different druid arguments I see on these forums seem to boil down to, "I want to be able to do everything."


Please don't point fingers. Druids are hardly the only class that does this.
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For a fight light Feng where you will have the majority of the raid stacked most of the time, all 3 shrooms, fully grown, will hit everyone for about 20k or less. At best it will be meter padding, certainly not a tool for keeping people alive.


I've seen people say things like this a lot. While it's true that the mushrooms don't heal for enough currently (2k per person) what you're saying is that a 20k heal per person is not a good tool for keeping people alive, and that's just not true. No one spellcast saves lives, especially not for a druid. It's the continuous sequence of spellcasts, including spells from your co-healer, that keep people alive. Bloom is one tool that can help do that. And because Bloom is off the GCD, the intent is that you're able to use it while you're going full-tilt bursting your HPS with Regrowth and WG, so it boosts your HPS potential without interruption. If the increased burst would be meter padding, then you don't need that extra healing and you don't need to use the mushrooms.

But a 20k heal per person would be like giving everyone in the raid a Rejuv tick at once for 6k mana. You couldn't possibly get those results casting Rejuv. Why would you not want that?

Edit:
But they are still supposed to fit somewhere into the burst healing department and they are still failing.


Here's how I fit them into my burst healing. Firstly, I have it macroed with Wild Growth as follows:

/use [mod] Wild Mushroom: Bloom
/use Wild Growth


So it casts Wild Growth under all circumstances, and if I have a mod key pressed it also casts Bloom. My reasoning here is that any circumstance where I want to cast Bloom, is also a situation where I want to cast Wild Growth. There's no situation where these spells conflict with each other, because they serve the same purpose. (I expect I'll make a similar macro that automatically blooms them when I use Tree of Life.)

At any point where casting Rejuv would be overhealing, I place mushrooms; two under the melee group and the third one typically next to me. At any point where there's significant raid-wide damage, I bloom them. Sometimes this means I don't have them there when I need them; but this only happens when there's continuous raid-wide damage, and in that situation I need to focus on stabilizing the raid anyway. (I still sneak in some mushrooms anyway, though, just cuz I like the greensplosion when I bloom them.)

That is to say, mushrooms aren't useful in every burst healing situation. But they do have A place, specifically when you have time to prepare for your burst. They're a method of shifting what would have been overhealing into actual healing.
Edited by Heartsings on 1/12/2013 11:33 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6910
Heart.....that post made so much sense to me that no other one did. You almost make me want to play my druid again.
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90 Human Paladin
10740
If they perform well enough and have over-heal compensation, you'll use them.
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100 Worgen Druid
12220
So i have been hanging back and waiting to make conclusions about the new mushrooms. Once I get 16/16, hopefully tonight, I will have time to really PTR them. Overall I can't be anything but encouraged something was done and an active stance is being taken on their design. And even more simply, it will be a straight buff, since I already use mushrooms in many encounters.

Anyway, my first impressions:

  • The overhealing concept is one that I find interesting. Having mushrooms down at all times to catch 75% of rejuvenation over-healing is not something to take for granted in the whole scheme of things. Used effectively, this will be quite powerful, from just not worrying about constant rejuv on the tank, or covering the raid per-emptively before a large mechanic, much less just having a catch-all for any over-healing that occurs naturally.
  • If the extra healing is not capped per target, this makes them scale really well downwards. Not in terms of raid size, but grouping. Hitting minimal targets would not be such a bad thing, and actually could be a really powerfull tool, something the flat amount from previous shrooms did not do. This could mean they are valuable for special assignments, like soakers, or just straight up tank healing if there are no stacking/burst raid wide mechanics, or even in PVP... etc..etc..
  • Regarding the above, they will be more effective at smaller raid sizes overall, since it is health based. I don't really know how this can be solved but have not thought about it much. Only note it because we already are stronger at smaller raid sizes so it is a bit backwards in terms of tuning.
  • The radius is still a bit frustrating, but I do not see this changing. Having it increase over time just seems backwards and "OP", I think the reverse might make more sense, larger to start, but decrease as they become more "potent".
  • The new design does nothing to make them less clunky. I personally will not be bothered, as I have used them extensively for a tier, but since this was one major complaint by most people, it will still be there... and even a bit worse. This mechanic is not exactly straight forward and will most likely need addons to make them most effective etc..
  • Edited by Fangthorn on 1/13/2013 10:33 AM PST
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    90 Night Elf Druid
    12410
    I don't want to be penalized if I have to move them. I'm also nervous of how long the ramp up would be, maybe if it absorbed a certain percentage of WG overheal too.

    Edit: and yes the 3 Shrooms is so clunky... I'd love to see this fixed.
    Edited by Celestelle on 1/13/2013 11:48 AM PST
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