Countdown queues are the problem

(Locked)

90 Undead Mage
1935
01/20/2013 07:09 PMPosted by Rainbowdash
The only reason its not bannable is they haven't figured out how to tell for sure yet countdown ques are against the rules period GC's tweets and daxx's responses have said that in as nice a way as possible.
I love how the anti-premade crowd says countdown queues are against the rules and then back pedals and states that they aren't against the rules because Blizzard currently has no way to prevent countdown queues from happening.

What this really boils down to (and always has) is that certain solo players have been wrecked in BGs and want to immediately blame premades (when I am sure in many cases they got wrecked by a better pug or a 5 man premade). When told countless times that Blizzard broke the ability to queue more than 5 players together and that countdown queues are in no way against the rules they change their tune and refuse to acknowledge the truth.
Edited by Kiaransali on 1/21/2013 9:18 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
I love how the anti-premade crowd says countdown queues are against the rules and then back pedals and states that they aren't against the rules because Blizzard currently has no way to prevent countdown queues from happening.

What this really boils down to (and always has) is that certain solo players have been wrecked in BGs and want to immediately blame premades (when I am sure in many cases they got wrecked by a better pug or a 5 man premade). When told countless times that Blizzard broke the ability to queue more than 5 players together and that countdown queues are in no way against the rules they change their tune and refuse to acknowledge the truth.


I in no way think that premades are anywhere near the problem they are made out to be on the forums.

No, there is nothing in the rules that say countdown queues are wrong. There is an in game limitation to queuing with more than five. A reasonable expectation would be that if I can not queue with more than five using only in game tools, I should expect that I will not run into a group that went around this limit. This does happen. It doesn't happen as much as the forums claims it does, and to be honest, there is no way to tell anymore, short of everyone in the grouping being from the same server. And that's not full evidence either. It does happen though.
90 Human Warrior
13520
Tiny you do realize that at best the warden will look at process names hell even doing that can be classified as spyware blizzard does not want that label. In short unless someone is moronic enough not to change the process name blizzard will not catch them to go any further could be deemed an invasion of privacy, ie a pr nightmare and not something blizzard would want to deal with.

Also that doesn't excuse breaking the que limits blizzard set forth 5 is the limit getting around it with countdown queuing is exploitative whether you admit it or not which you obviously won't rofl.
Edited by Rainbowdash on 1/21/2013 1:35 PM PST
90 Human Warrior
13520
01/21/2013 09:17 AMPosted by Kiaransali
The only reason its not bannable is they haven't figured out how to tell for sure yet countdown ques are against the rules period GC's tweets and daxx's responses have said that in as nice a way as possible.
I love how the anti-premade crowd says countdown queues are against the rules and then back pedals and states that they aren't against the rules because Blizzard currently has no way to prevent countdown queues from happening.

What this really boils down to (and always has) is that certain solo players have been wrecked in BGs and want to immediately blame premades (when I am sure in many cases they got wrecked by a better pug or a 5 man premade). When told countless times that Blizzard broke the ability to queue more than 5 players together and that countdown queues are in no way against the rules they change their tune and refuse to acknowledge the truth.


Yes I'm a terrible player and constantly get wrecked in solo bgs /sarcasm off
90 Orc Warrior
10085
I just want to know if there is something that says countdown queues are against the ToS. Not "against the spirit of the game." The "spirit of the game" is not something concrete and varies from person to person.
90 Undead Mage
1935
01/21/2013 01:48 PMPosted by Rainbowdash
Yes I'm a terrible player and constantly get wrecked in solo bgs /sarcasm off
You admitted that your rogue that you were leveling got wrecked often and you blamed premades. Don't try to deny this because we both know it's true.

01/21/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Zeroizer
I just want to know if there is something that says countdown queues are against the ToS. Not "against the spirit of the game." The "spirit of the game" is not something concrete and varies from person to person.
No there isn't & that is the issue here. Also the Blizzard blue poster Daxxarri said that full premades ruin the fun of solo queuers (something to that effect). Don't bots & players ignoring objectives do exactly the same thing? Where is the outrage from the anti-premade crowd and Blizzard about these players?
90 Human Rogue
2845
01/21/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Zeroizer
I just want to know if there is something that says countdown queues are against the ToS. Not "against the spirit of the game." The "spirit of the game" is not something concrete and varies from person to person.

There isn't anything that stats this case is specifically against the rules. But that's not how Blizzard operates. If they had to document every possible infraction in their ToU, it'd be hundreds of pages long. There IS a "fair" clause in the terms of use that states:

"Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:"

Then goes on to list a few more specific violations.
"(iii) Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Game."

Essentially anything they want to ban, they can do so. My thoughts are the breaking on the queue was the first step, then the official posts from Blizzard doing what they can to discourage it was the second step. The third step will be outright breaking it, and declaring it a violation. But essentially what is going on right now is that Blizzard has stated they don't want it happening, and it's not the intent. But players are going to do everything they can get away with. I'd say if the data stays consistent (the level of distress caused before they made the announcement) they'll move forward. But if it's thwarted enough premades for their satisfaction, they'll probably leave it as is. People need to realize that breaking a countdown queue would require new queueing technology, so I can understand why Blizzard wants to exhaust other options first.

01/21/2013 02:01 PMPosted by Kiaransali
Where is the outrage from the anti-premade crowd and Blizzard about these players?

There are tons of bot posts a day. They're just as common as premade threads.
Edited by Esclamayshun on 1/21/2013 2:23 PM PST
90 Orc Warrior
10085
There isn't anything that stats this case is specifically against the rules. But that's not how Blizzard operates. If they had to document every possible infraction in their ToU, it'd be hundreds of pages long. There IS a "fair play" clause in the terms of use that states:

"Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:"

Then goes on to list a few more specific violations. Essentially anything they want to ban, they can do so. My thoughts are the breaking on the queue was the first step, then the official posts from Blizzard doing what they can to discourage it was the second step. The third step will be outright breaking it, and declaring it a violation. But essentially what is going on right now is that Blizzard has stated they don't want it happening, and it's not the intent. But players are going to do everything they can get away with. I'd say if the data stays consistent (the level of distress caused before they made the announcement) they'll move forward. But if it's thwarted enough premades for their satisfaction, they'll probably leave it as is. People need to realize that breaking a countdown queue would require new queueing technology, so I can understand why Blizzard wants to exhaust other options first.


Ok that make sense. I figured they would have a catch-all rule. Now, does anyone know if anyone has been banned for doing countdown queues? I guess the longest case of this would be massive multiboxers?
90 Human Rogue
2845
01/21/2013 02:22 PMPosted by Zeroizer
Ok that make sense. I figured they would have a catch-all rule. Now, does anyone know if anyone has been banned for doing countdown queues? I guess the longest case of this would be massive multiboxers?

No, as of right now they're not declaring it an actual violation, just trying to discourage it. As as multiboxing goes, they've stated a functioning team has an advantage over multiboxers, and the multiboxing community is probably so low that it barely causes much distress. Bots, full premades, gear disparity, and class imbalance seem to be much higher than multiboxers (I've seen 2 in all of season 12.)
90 Orc Warrior
10085
01/21/2013 02:26 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
Ok that make sense. I figured they would have a catch-all rule. Now, does anyone know if anyone has been banned for doing countdown queues? I guess the longest case of this would be massive multiboxers?

No, as of right now they're not declaring it an actual violation, just trying to discourage it. As as multiboxing goes, they've stated a functioning team has an advantage over multiboxers, and the multiboxing community is probably so low that it barely causes much distress. Bots, full premades, gear disparity, and class imbalance seem to be much higher than multiboxers (I've seen 2 in all of season 12.)


Oh I wasn't saying multiboxers are a huge deal, I was just thinking that was the earliest version of countdown queuing (in a rough way). So if blizz hasn't stated it being a violation, that should end threads pretty much shouldn't it? I mean, if it's not against the rules then it's fair play. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should need a full premade to kill pugs, but if it's not against the rules it's not against the rules.
90 Human Rogue
2845
01/21/2013 02:33 PMPosted by Zeroizer
Oh I wasn't saying multiboxers are a huge deal, I was just thinking that was the earliest version of countdown queuing (in a rough way). So if blizz hasn't stated it being a violation, that should end threads pretty much shouldn't it? I mean, if it's not against the rules then it's fair play. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should need a full premade to kill pugs, but if it's not against the rules it's not against the rules.

Agreed, only the people who haven't done any research on the matter, or are just spewing nonsense say it's a direct violation of the rules set in place. However I am just voicing my concerns with it, about how it isn't fair play despite being within the current rules. Backing blizzard's own claims that it ruins the spirit of the game. If they're not happy with their attempts to discourage it, we could see some sort of official action against it.
01/14/2013 09:36 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
This is an undocumented feature (bug) that has been around for a long time. It's time that it gets changed.

I'd say exploit more than bug.


^

It's annoying as hell to play in random bgs any more. I get upwards of 300ms every other game.

Really I could care less about premades. I can join a premade any time I want to using other, more reliable tools.
Edited by Xangxu on 1/21/2013 3:06 PM PST
90 Human Warrior
13520
01/21/2013 02:01 PMPosted by Kiaransali
Yes I'm a terrible player and constantly get wrecked in solo bgs /sarcasm off
You admitted that your rogue that you were leveling got wrecked often and you blamed premades. Don't try to deny this because we both know it's true.

I just want to know if there is something that says countdown queues are against the ToS. Not "against the spirit of the game." The "spirit of the game" is not something concrete and varies from person to person.
No there isn't & that is the issue here. Also the Blizzard blue poster Daxxarri said that full premades ruin the fun of solo queuers (something to that effect). Don't bots & players ignoring objectives do exactly the same thing? Where is the outrage from the anti-premade crowd and Blizzard about these players?


my rogue in greens while attempting to follow map objectives got wrecked /gasp soon as I got dreadful I could do the usual rogue tricks with 0 issue, couldn't necessarily win games on my own.

My exact complaint was that my win rate was crap due to premades not that I myself was getting wrecked but hey in your delusional world you are the best wow player in the world so /shrug.
90 Goblin Hunter
4900
01/21/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Xangxu

I'd say exploit more than bug.


^

It's annoying as hell to play in random bgs any more. I get upwards of 300ms every other game.

Really I could care less about premades. I can join a premade any time I want to using other, more reliable tools.


You keep complaining about your lag due to oqueue in every thread. Why does no one else have this problem, cept for maybe 1 other person who admitted after changing his ISP, it was fixed...ergo it wasn't oqueue and instead was his ISP.

oqueue doesn't cause lag the least bit. I live in Hawaii and have 130ms on average. I've never had lag issues due to oqueue.
90 Goblin Hunter
4900
Oh I wasn't saying multiboxers are a huge deal, I was just thinking that was the earliest version of countdown queuing (in a rough way). So if blizz hasn't stated it being a violation, that should end threads pretty much shouldn't it? I mean, if it's not against the rules then it's fair play. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should need a full premade to kill pugs, but if it's not against the rules it's not against the rules.

Agreed, only the people who haven't done any research on the matter, or are just spewing nonsense say it's a direct violation of the rules set in place. However I am just voicing my concerns with it, about how it isn't fair play despite being within the current rules. Backing blizzard's own claims that it ruins the spirit of the game. If they're not happy with their attempts to discourage it, we could see some sort of official action against it.


According to GC, "Anything with friends in WOW is good."
Source: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/287641520700542976

Solo queue into randoms and deal with bads, bots and AFKs and the occasional premade. Go with 5, it's not as bad...go with a premade and have more fun. Meeting people who like to pvp and play the objectives with good strategy beats QQing about solo queueing randoms anyday.

edit: I know it's out of context...just thought I'd throw in my humor a bit with an argument.
Edited by Dungflinger on 1/21/2013 4:53 PM PST
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/21/2013 02:22 PMPosted by Zeroizer
Now, does anyone know if anyone has been banned for doing countdown queues?


Also, Zero, it seems important to point out that they weren't actioning players using automated queues either, according to Daxx in that now infamous exchange. BUT they clearly decided it was "wrong". And said so.

12/04/2012 03:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
No one's wrist was slapped. There have been no suspensions over this issue. We're just making our stance on the subject clear, so that there's no room for misunderstanding.


Apparently there will ALWAYS be "room" unless to every possibility you reply, "No. No, no, no.... and NO".

Leave any room whatsoever for interpretaion to people and they will inevitably intrepret in their own favor.
90 Undead Mage
1935
01/21/2013 03:58 PMPosted by Rainbowdash
My exact complaint was that my win rate was crap due to premades not that I myself was getting wrecked but hey in your delusional world you are the best wow player in the world so /shrug.
lol I never said I was the best... in fact I have described myself as average (not an average BG player because I consider them below average, but an average PvPer which includes arena & RBG players). As for your rogue sounds like you are trying to squirm out of the fact that you blamed premades for your lack of success.

You keep complaining about your lag due to oqueue in every thread. Why does no one else have this problem, cept for maybe 1 other person who admitted after changing his ISP, it was fixed...ergo it wasn't oqueue and instead was his ISP.

oqueue doesn't cause lag the least bit. I live in Hawaii and have 130ms on average. I've never had lag issues due to oqueue.
He just needs to wrap a few more layers of tin foil around his hat and he'll be fine.

01/21/2013 02:59 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
Backing blizzard's own claims that it ruins the spirit of the game. If they're not happy with their attempts to discourage it, we could see some sort of official action against it.
Isn't the spirit of the game to have fun? If you look at the disagreements about premades both sides are upset with what they think is ruining their fun... the anti-premade crowd is of course upset with premades & players like me are tired of being surrounded with dead weight in pugs (bots, bads & players ignoring objectives). In both cases our "fun" is being threatened.
Edited by Kiaransali on 1/21/2013 5:09 PM PST
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]