Countdown queues are the problem

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60 Human Death Knight
900
It's ok we don't have to see eye to eye on any of this. The bottom line for me is PvP is fun again because I was enabled to find new people to play with on other servers. Count down Q'ing may not be something Blizz is fond of and that's fine with me. I'm not fond of the general attitude of the non grouped players...nor Blizzard's handling of the automatons in BG's or the pure nature of "play how you want" in the BG's enabling people to play poorly and be a major force in actually pushing their team to lose.

I'm not angry about the times I got beat on by better geared and better skilled players. I have saluted them in multiple posts here for their play and co-ordination.


Sounds good.

I would say the only major difference here between us is that i have a more defined sense of morality.

Not a bad thing, just agreeing that in general random groups are.... frustrating. But I persoanlly am unwilling to compromise and/or make excuses against what is clearly intended simply to circumvent the measures in place attempting to ensure it affects everyone equally. That random battleground remain random. 5-max.

I am going to follow those rules (or simply not play) because it's not worth it TO ME to trade my integrity.

Not for some silly pretend currency used to buy pixels. Some things are more important than a game.
/shrug
90 Human Rogue
2845
It is not possible - nor is anyone able - to Q with more than 5 in a group. Blizzard's own Q system allows count down Q's to work and generally be estimable in which bg groups will land in - that's my fault how? What rule am I breaking where it says I cannot count down with another group and try to get in the same BG with them? I don't see that anywhere in the TOS or Terms of Use or anywhere in Daxx's post.

if you break it down, what does a full oQueue premade bring to the table that is unfair?


I’ll try to break it down as clearly as I can:

Any addon that enables a full, organized Battleground group to queue against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage. That is not in the spirit of the experience we want to provide in the normal Battleground queue. Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the spirit of the game nor the fun of others.

So you can't make the correlation here? Blizzard clearly doesn't want full premades in randoms, as stated several times in the post. You think it's sound logic that blizzard is against full premades formed with an addon, but perfectly okay with full premades formed through other means?

Btw it clearly states in the WoW ToU that corpse camping an enemy of your faction is not considered griefing. So before you try to hang Daxx up for supporting griefing, mayber read this:

"C. Rules Related to Game Play. Game play is what World of Warcraft is all about, and Blizzard strictly enforces the rules that govern game play. Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Game is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race. Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:"
Edited by Esclamayshun on 1/16/2013 5:47 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
8795
01/16/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
So you can't make the correlation here? Blizzard clearly doesn't want full premades in randoms, as stated several times in the post. You think it's sound logic that blizzard is against full premades formed with an addon, but perfectly okay with full premades formed through other means?


See when people just read and black and white they come blinded by what they believe.
Notice he chose his words carefully, not once did he say "its not allowed" , blizzard slightly frowns upon or perhaps wags their finger.

But they dont utterly disagree with it like botting. They would just prefer you didnt to give the other team a chance. And it's not "Blizzard CLEARLY doesnt want full premades in randoms" It's we know you can and....cmonnn guys dont do it...please?
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/16/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
So you can't make the correlation here?


There was the same disregard of the obvious during Cata when players could glitch into XPon battlegrounds with their XP turned off. The constant argument was "if it was against the rules they would fix it..."

As if the separation itself wasn't enough of an indicator.

This isnt exactly the same situation, but it's heading there rapidly. Predictably. Inevitably.
90 Human Rogue
2845
01/16/2013 05:45 AMPosted by Shâd
So you can't make the correlation here? Blizzard clearly doesn't want full premades in randoms, as stated several times in the post. You think it's sound logic that blizzard is against full premades formed with an addon, but perfectly okay with full premades formed through other means?


See when people just read and black and white they come blinded by what they believe.
Notice he chose his words carefully, not once did he say "its not allowed" , blizzard slightly frowns upon or perhaps wags their finger.

But they dont utterly disagree with it like botting. They would just prefer you didnt to give the other team a chance. And it's not "Blizzard CLEARLY doesnt want full premades in randoms" It's we know you can and....cmonnn guys dont do it...please?

So you completely disregard their intentions and because you don't like it?
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/16/2013 05:45 AMPosted by Shâd
And it's not "Blizzard CLEARLY doesnt want full premades in randoms" It's we know you can and....cmonnn guys dont do it...please?

How exactly are those 2 different?

I would prefer if you didnt slap me.
*SLAP*
He wasn't very clear he didnt want to be slapped.
90 Human Rogue
2845
01/16/2013 05:49 AMPosted by Warglaive
So you can't make the correlation here?


There was the same disregard of the obvious during Cata when players could glitch into XPon battlegrounds with their XP turned off. The constant argument was "if it was against the rules they would fix it..."

As if the separation itself wasn't enough of an indicator.

This isnt exactly the same situation, but it's heading there rapidly. Predictably. Inevitably.

Well the Terms of Use have a "fair" clause essentially stating that anything they do not consider fair can become a violation. So we'll see.
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/16/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
"C. Rules Related to Game Play. Game play is what World of Warcraft is all about, and Blizzard strictly enforces the rules that govern game play. Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Game is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race. Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:"


HEY YOU! What do you think you're doing??

Those look like rules and they have no place here where we do everything possible to circumnavigate them.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
8795
01/16/2013 05:51 AMPosted by Warglaive
And it's not "Blizzard CLEARLY doesnt want full premades in randoms" It's we know you can and....cmonnn guys dont do it...please?

How exactly are those 2 different?

I would prefer if you didnt slap me.
*SLAP*
He wasn't very clear he didnt want to be slapped.


Because if they were different they would be banning people who used OQueue, which they are not. Please pay attention.

01/16/2013 05:50 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
So you completely disregard their intentions and because you don't like it?


You are having trouble telling the difference between facts and reading politely between the lines. If you run a stop sign and get caught, you will get a ticket. If the stop sign wasn't there and you got a ticket, you could fight it in court and say there was no stop sign in place, I didn't see a stop sign and therefore I didn't have to stop. Even though the sign should have been there, it wasn't posted.

Blizzard did not erect a stop sign when it comes to oqueue, they just ask nicely to not queue with more than 5. And the reason why they let it continue is because they know the add on works.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
01/16/2013 06:25 AMPosted by Shâd
You are having trouble telling the difference between facts and reading politely between the lines.


Blizzard limited queuing (with nothing external) for a normal BG to groups of 5 or less. What is the implication from that?
90 Human Rogue
2845
You are having trouble telling the difference between facts and reading politely between the lines. If you run a stop sign and get caught, you will get a ticket. If the stop sign wasn't there and you got a ticket, you could fight it in court and say there was no stop sign in place, I didn't see a stop sign and therefore I didn't have to stop. Even though the sign should have been there, it wasn't posted.

Blizzard did not erect a stop sign when it comes to oqueue, they just ask nicely to not queue with more than 5. And the reason why they let it continue is because they know the add on works.

I wasn't under the impression Oqueue still automated queues. Why would they ban them. The addon itself isn't a problem.
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/16/2013 06:25 AMPosted by Shâd
Because if they were different they would be banning people who used OQueue, which they are not. Please pay attention.


Weird.
01/16/2013 05:45 AMPosted by Shâd
See when people just read and black and white they come blinded by what they believe.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
8795
01/16/2013 06:35 AMPosted by Warglaive
Because if they were different they would be banning people who used OQueue, which they are not. Please pay attention.


Weird.
See when people just read and black and white they come blinded by what they believe.


Sounds like you are suggesting Blizzard has been banning people using the add on yes?
60 Human Death Knight
900
No, it sounds like you're under the impression no one can be "against" something without being absolutely and irrevocably against it allowing no quarter and leaving Blizzard no option but to ban every player ever to do something they considered inappropriate.

That seems pretty black and white to me. By your own definition you are blinded by your belief.

I am not blinded by anything. It could not be more clear they do not approve.

12/04/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The normal Battleground queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it's not a perfect system, and we're still looking at ways to improve normal Battleground queues further. Regardless, it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick Honor. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize--if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.
90 Undead Warlock
7580
01/16/2013 03:49 AMPosted by Warglaive
RANDOM isnt just about which map you're shipped to.


It really is. You can either que for a specific map...or a RANDOM map. That's all that means. Back when you could que as a raid, they were still called "random bgs".
90 Human Rogue
2845
It really is. You can either que for a specific map...or a RANDOM map. That's all that means. Back when you could que as a raid, they were still called "random bgs".

But that blue post underlines it pretty clearly that they don't want randoms to be full of serious competition.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
8795
01/16/2013 08:02 AMPosted by Jugaa
RANDOM isnt just about which map you're shipped to.


It really is. You can either que for a specific map...or a RANDOM map. That's all that means. Back when you could que as a raid, they were still called "random bgs".


Warglaive just cries for the sake of crying, he's already had some pretty epic nonsensical posts.
90 Undead Warlock
7580
01/16/2013 08:08 AMPosted by Esclamayshun
But that blue post underlines it pretty clearly that they don't want randoms to be full of serious competition.


what are you trying to argue? I'm simply stating that random means the map, nothing else...
90 Undead Mage
9080
No, it sounds like you're under the impression no one can be "against" something without being absolutely and irrevocably against it allowing no quarter and leaving Blizzard no option but to ban every player ever to do something they considered inappropriate.

That seems pretty black and white to me. By your own definition you are blinded by your belief.

I am not blinded by anything. It could not be more clear they do not approve.

The normal Battleground queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it's not a perfect system, and we're still looking at ways to improve normal Battleground queues further. Regardless, it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick Honor. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize--if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.


What they state is "We realize that it's not a perfect system" - Doh!

And: "jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. " What situation is that? Handicapped? Incompetent? Bot'ed by a program? What exactly is this situation?

And : "it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick Honor. " - Agreed - however the system randomly chooses who my group goes up against - if it's a PUG and I have 5 then chances are they are going to lose - that's my fault how?

And Warglaive - I see nowhere in there that it's a random battleground Q - only that it's the normal battleground Q.

You with your higher sense of morality can find a pile of sand and make me some glass. I play for fun. Fun in an MMO means playing with other people like it or not.
Edited by Aurellian on 1/16/2013 10:33 AM PST
90 Human Rogue
2845
01/16/2013 10:32 AMPosted by Aurellian
And Warglaive - I see nowhere in there that it's a random battleground Q - only that it's the normal battleground Q.

Are you serious? Pretty sure he's talking about the same thing. Why would it be any different? Most of the premades are doing the CTA anyway.
Edited by Esclamayshun on 1/16/2013 11:27 AM PST
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