Countdown queues are the problem

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90 Blood Elf Warrior
Req
14315
zomg did a 5 man BG earlier today and we roflstomped the alliance every time in SSM. Even got the cart courier achieve =OThere really is NO NEED for 5 people.I think 50% of the BG should be able to queue together, though.


Don't mention the successfulness of 5 man premades, these babies will start crying that playing with only 5 friends is OP now.
90 Undead Mage
1935
01/16/2013 06:31 PMPosted by Kirama
I'll remember that..
I think I've seen maybe 3 forum posters in game so I'll probably never see you. I had hoped to see Exeon on his stamina/mastery stacking shadow priest when I was Disc, beat him 1v1 & then troll him for the rest of the season, but sadly I never saw him.
Edited by Kiaransali on 1/16/2013 7:50 PM PST
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/16/2013 04:32 PMPosted by Kiaransali
Differently as in not condoning botting and players ignoring objectives makes me bitter? That is absolute nonsense. I am not angry at them...


No, repeatedly calling them "retards" and "whiners" things like that every chance you get makes you bitter.

And considering the frequency... you are VERY bitter. Be constructive, not bitter. You're smart enough.
60 Human Death Knight
900

by taking this stance then blizzard has failed by keeping
objectives in normal battlegrounds. if strategy is not meant
to be had in the normal bg then remove the objectives.
go in with your four friends and deathmatch it up. it would
still involve 'stomping pugs' but with no actual win objectives.

And grouping into that as more than 5 is not intended either. If i could make my teammates follow objectives i would. I cant. So if i want to win I have to carry them kicking and screaming to almost every single one. I try.

It does not excuse circumventing the intended parameters of the system. Their reasons, their rules.

integrity, sure. fair play. yeah, i'm onboard with that too.
however, to equate fair play to a mindless deathmatch
instead of the open capability to use teamwork, strategy,
communication, etc, which is what the anti-premade stance
is based upon, in these objective base battlegrounds is not
acceptable and should not be defended as it lacks integrity.

But you CAN have all those things. Just not against a randomly assembled group of opponents. The most you can organize against randoms is ---> 5. They deal with the same problems as you. Same handicaps.
Same limitations. That's fair play.

what he's really saying is, 'i'm brushing you off because we
have our own plans and you're not included."

I have frequently told people what they are really saying before myself as well - this doesnt strike me as that.

I see you making a scapegoat for side-stepping the intentions of the system. The thing is that you've already decided it's pointless to try-- yet you now contradict these people here who are actually doing what you wont.

Asking for a change.

If you're so afraid they will be effective in getting a change perhaps you should ask for one yourself.

If you're just angry at Blizz and using the thread to be angry, well... i guess that's fine too.
61 Gnome Rogue
10735
01/16/2013 07:26 PMPosted by Splixer
Don't mention the successfulness of 5 man premades, these babies will start crying that playing with only 5 friends is OP now.


Five man premades are a significant advantage. Any premade is to some extent if you're communicating well. They are allowed because they are necessary to let friends play together. Is there any objective reason that 5 is fine and 6 is too many? No. It's just a convienient number selected by Blizzard. But because the allowed number was selected to be 5, using unconventional mechanics to bypass that restriction is exploiting the game.
90 Undead Warlock
7580
01/16/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Squeak
admitting defeat and leaving the area.


Pretty sure you can do that in BGs, it's called deserter... :)
90 Blood Elf Warrior
Req
14315
01/17/2013 12:07 AMPosted by Jugaa
Pretty sure you can do that in BGs, it's called deserter... :)


There's actually lots of ways to get out without deserter too.

Just throwing that out there for constant ragequitters.
90 Undead Warlock
7580
The complete function of the system is to fill empty slots with RANDOM players. There will always be slots.
It is ALWAYS intended to be random now. For both teams involved - beyond the now maximum queue of 5.


It will always be random. I am always grouped with people from random realms :)
90 Undead Warlock
7580
01/16/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Warglaive
But they currently do not reward honor or conquest points - except for RBG. Which is a pretty apparent solution.


Since when? I get CP in a random BG.
100 Undead Warrior
14045
01/16/2013 09:30 PMPosted by Warglaive
try


i do, and i expect everybody on my team to try
as well. here's the thing, i should not be forced
into grouping with those that absolutely refuse.

the premade is not a bad thing. never has been.

01/16/2013 09:30 PMPosted by Warglaive
That's fair play.


no, it's not. refusing to work with your team by
ignoring the components of the battleground is
not fair to the rest of the team. these types do
not belong in the bg's we currently have. they
need their own deathmatch type of battleground
that is devoid of strategy, communication, etc.

just because your team has random players on a
random bg map does not mean teamwork has to
be thrown out the window. odd idea of fairness.

Asking for a change.

If you're so afraid they will be effective in getting a change perhaps you should ask for one yourself.

If you're just angry at Blizz and using the thread to be angry, well... i guess that's fine too.


this is funny. i've asked for change many times. no, i've
not got down on my knees, not begged, but i've said it
more than a few times what i see as the problem and
stated that those problems should be remedied, and have
given thoughts as to how it could be changed. funny.

not angry at anybody. strong disagreement does not mean
anger. as to what he said, that particular quote you had, it's
fluff. complete fluff. it means pretty much what i said it did.
it's a clever play on words meant to mislead those it's said to.

there's something else taking place over the past few weeks
i've seen trending. there's a lot of people in the better end
gear and they are completely wrecking the battlegrounds, and,
they're going in solo, by two's, three's, and in five man groups.
no 6+ anything and they are tearing it up, giving the illusion
that they are more than they actually are and people are
confusing this gear pwnage with 6+ premades. don't mis-
understand now. not saying that countdowns don't happen,
but that five man groups and less are tearing it up and
the beaten are crying here about premade cheaters. heh.

Cheers.
Pleb.
60 Human Death Knight
900
here's the thing, i should not be forcedinto grouping with those that absolutely refuse.

You are not. Wargames are readily available for that type of organized interaction.

Blizzard has the last say as to what games reward what, and they are clearly stating their intention for those games. Currently. They also havent completely taken away your ability to get around those intentions yet.

But if the situation gets to a place they feel is unproductive - again - for any reason, they are likely to fix it.

What i'm saying specifically to you is - maybe you should make a greater effort to prepare for that probability.
Or there is possibly going to be a time not too far down the road where you ARE stuck with no more options.

For the type of play you want. The "whiners" are seriously outnumbering your position. And rightfully so.
Whether they are 100% accurate in their complaints or not. The premise itself is completely justified.

Given Blizzard's obvious and admitted position on the subject.

edit- somewhat unrelated, have you seen the potential change for low-level battlegrounds? That all players regardless of level in a particular bracket will have the effective max level of that bracket during the BG?

If they are prepared to expend resources on something as trivial as that in a 5 level bracket system, how long do you think they'll let you skirt around the 5-max group queue? Concerning the "enjoyment of everyone involved"? Make an effort now or at least an attempt to vocalize that is more than simply and repeatedly telling these "whiners" they're wrong, or you will be stuck with them and only them as your teammates.

More than likely.
Edited by Warglaive on 1/17/2013 2:14 AM PST
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/17/2013 02:22 AMPosted by Aurellian
Now, find me anyone in Honor gear that is going to try stepping foot in this BG because they know they are likely going up against > 2200 rated players just farming quick and easy conquest?


You mean... like a randomly assembled group getting faced against a premade in the current system now? Who would want to join a system like that indeed? Making claims you HOPE for a premade opponent doesnt guarantee you'll get one. What about the rest of them? The ones using the system correctly? As intended?

How is it fair for them?

12/04/2012 03:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Regardless, what of the games that you played that weren't against other pre-mades? Just hapless casualties to your fun, I suppose?


(Dax happened to cover a lot of bases in that thread... see you in 2 pages with another CLEAR answer.)
100 Night Elf Druid
13010
Seriously they just need to get rid of honor, get rid every set of gear except one that every single person works for via conquest and call it a day. This !@#$ wouldn't happen nearly as often as it does, botters would cease to exist and dumb%^-*s would stop excusing their crappy behavior on everyone but themselves. (Premaders vs Pugs)
90 Undead Mage
1935
No, repeatedly calling them "retards" and "whiners" things like that every chance you get makes you bitter.

And considering the frequency... you are VERY bitter. Be constructive, not bitter. You're smart enough.
As I have said many times I have a lot of fun in BGs... as for the whiners & bads (rarely call anyone a retard) I am calling a spade a spade. It's not a reflection on me, but them.

01/17/2013 02:05 AMPosted by Warglaive
You are not. Wargames are readily available for that type of organized interaction.
Telling players that are competent & want to win to stop doing BGs and do Wargames is extremely stupid. That's like asking sober drivers to leave the highway because it has too many drunk drivers.

01/16/2013 09:30 PMPosted by Warglaive
If you're just angry at Blizz and using the thread to be angry, well... i guess that's fine too.
I find it very amusing that you have sided with the whiners and are also trying to assert that players that disagree with you are angry. If you look at our posts we are not angry... disappointed that Blizzard hasn't done anything about bots? Sure. Frustrated that most solo players ignore objectives or are painfully bad? Sure. Angry? Not so much.

Posted by Daxxarri
Regardless, what of the games that you played that weren't against other pre-mades? Just hapless casualties to your fun, I suppose?
The part that Daxx left out and that the anti-premade crowd refuses to acknowledge is that bots, bads & players ignoring objectives make our experience not fun (our meaning competent players trying to win). That's why most of us resorted to premades... the "stomping noobs" crap is largely untrue. I run inot a lot of premades in CTA's, particularly 10 man BGs.

01/17/2013 03:26 AMPosted by Warglaive
Maybe read the thread. I have no reason to disbelieve what he has to say any more than I do you.
You believe him because you agree with him. The same players worshipping Daxx in one sentence are saying Blizzard is a bunch of idiots in the next sentence.
Edited by Kiaransali on 1/17/2013 3:28 AM PST
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/17/2013 03:20 AMPosted by Aurellian
Funny, you do know Warglaive that the current BG Q system always tries to place a 5 man group against a 5 man group? That if there are two 5 man groups in Q they will get faced off? You do know that right?

12/04/2012 03:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Perhaps this seemed to be your personal experience, but I assure you that this was far from generally the case

Maybe read the thread. I have no reason to disbelieve what he has to say any more than I do you. About 6+.

01/17/2013 03:20 AMPosted by Aurellian
The fact that according to his post there is NO WAY for 5 or more to enter a BG is clearly missed by you over and over again


Show me. Might be easier than taking your obviously over-biased word for it...
Edited by Warglaive on 1/17/2013 3:28 AM PST
60 Human Death Knight
900
Is that... directed at me? Was that supposed to be your BIG disclaimer of invalidation or something?
Read those tweets again because you're completely making my argument for me.

Not to mention the fact it refutes NOTHING about Dax's posts in that thread like you claimed it did. At all.

In fact old Mr Street seemed to flat out call it an EXPLOIT in that tweet... am i mistaken?
60 Human Death Knight
900
01/17/2013 03:48 AMPosted by Aurellian
They addressed it accordingly. Meaning they stopped people from Q'ing multiple groups at the same time. As far as they are concerned the issue has been addressed.


11/30/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Daxxarri
It is no longer possible to automate queuing for standard or random Battlegrounds in groups larger than 5


Automate.

Not "every possible avenue available". Automated. Please put more substance into your delusions, please.

edit- maybe you're just confused again. Automated queueing for standard or random battlegrounds was INTENDED to be broken. Queueing for RATED battlegrounds seemed to be unintentionally affected.

11/30/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Daxxarri
We understand that players want to enjoy coordinated team play, and we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience. Players can continue to use Addons to queue for Rated Battlegrounds as well.
Edited by Warglaive on 1/17/2013 4:17 AM PST
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