Analysis of LFR Loot System

100 Blood Elf Mage
14985
[quote]

Aside from that, we call the Elder Charm 28.50 bag the fail bag because it fails as a consolation prize in generating excitement, or even feeling like a consolation. If you don't win a piece of gear, fine it happens, but at the very least spending a charm should give you something to look forward to. Getting a bag, anticipating what might be inside, and having the possibility of being excited about what it contains is the goal. That change will be in 5.2.


Honestly you get 3 charms a week and the same amount of gold. Why not make the amount higher if you dont get a loot drop. I think the amount is 28g and a handful of silver. Its a raid boss something like 50G for spending a coin would be more worthwhile then the same gold you get all the time. A lot of time goes into getting the charms ( dailies etc) as well as valor.
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100 Human Mage
8905
I had a thought. One of the biggest issues is that people get multiples of items when they really needed another. Why not allow people to pass on a drop. This pass would pop up as a roll (no need/greed) for anyone one else in the LFR that could use the item. I don't need another shoulder when I have already had 3 drop. I'll pass and let someone else roll on it. I would also be happy to roll on an item that I didn't get that someone else passed on.The alternative would be to allow for in LFR trades of items that dropped. If you were in the LFR you could trade an item to someone else if you don't need it. I'm on the fence about allowing people to trade items that dropped for gold.


I agree with the above. The reason Blizzard won't do this is because of the great scandle that happened a year or so back when a few "high level" guilds went into LFR with a 25 member group already formed so that their "core raiders" could get all the loot and be geared up for their regular guild raids. That was cheating, apparently, and the world was about to end. So those guys were punished and the loot is now soul bound when it drops.

But seriously, who cares if a guild does this? I mean, it's a freaking video game. If you are so damaged by another guild which has raid gear before you, perhaps you need a break from Wow so you can get your life priorities straight. I get tired of people saying, "I worked hard for my gear." No you didn't. You sat on your !@# pushing buttons and sliding a mouse around. You didn't work hard, unless counting neglecting your studies, ignoring your wife and kids, being late on your job assignments, or having absolutly no life as work...

Let gear drop as it does now. If you already have it (or have something better), give the option to pass it on so somebody else can have it. Make it an "autogreed" item if nobody presses "need", just like normal. If an "elite" guild front loads their raiders on new content gear with LFR, so what? Everyone will know that their "elite" status wasn't earned, and they'll be known as the Lance Armstrongs of their realms. Cheaters can't hide, especially in a video game environment...
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100 Worgen Warrior
13150
What? Everyone LOVES the new roll system!
3 weeks trying to get 3 sigils of wisdom and getting 0 doesn't feel wasted!
Not does getting the same piece of loot about 4 times in the past month! I enjoy vendoring my loots! Especially when guild members need it, so I can just vendor it in front of them!
And wasting 3 bonus rolls that take 90 tokens to get is totally worth the 85g 50s! That's a fair trade for grinding out those dailies over and over again!
/sarcasm off
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90 Worgen Druid
7260
01/18/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Bashiok
We're still not convinced this is the right way to go about it. Our initial approaches are going to be based around your personal drops, win or lose, feeling more satisfying. If it still feels like killing bosses and seeing what you get doesn't feel good, we'll continue to evaluate.


If you are not convinced means you internally argue the same thing. Then I have to ask - WHY ARE YOU STUBBORN AS A MULE, and don't try it out for some time? What would you loose?

My main feeling is I'm continuously getting cheated by the system. It is one thing to openly roll a number and find "your roll was not high enough for loot". But if for weeks you run all LFR and all the time you get drops in HoF and Terrace, but not one fomr MSV, this is a feeling you can't shake.

Thinking calmly and rationally about it I'm (almost) convinced I'm paranoid, that does not help as my perception tells me differently because you refuse to give me anything tangible.

So make the rolls open - cursing about rolling low I've done for years, I can live with it.
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90 Human Paladin
10670
01/22/2013 08:40 AMPosted by Hyjinx
The primary reason I dislike having the wins hidden is that I enjoyed being able to see drops that could be available to one of my toons eventually (if I managed to win it in a subsequent LFR run). As it is, I have no insight into what a boss may drop unless I happen to win (and then I only know for that toon / spec). Sure, I could look it up, but why should I have to? I enjoyed the shared, social discovery aspect of it.


I'm sorry, this complaint makes no sense to me. You enjoy seeing what's available, but you specifically don't want spend 10 seconds looking at the dungeon journal to see what's available.


"Shared, social discovery"... it's about the journey, not the destination. It's the difference between analyzing the wedding registry to see what someone might get vs. watching them open their gifts. I don't enjoy seeing what's available. I enjoy seeing what's received.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750


I'm sorry, this complaint makes no sense to me. You enjoy seeing what's available, but you specifically don't want spend 10 seconds looking at the dungeon journal to see what's available.


"Shared, social discovery"... it's about the journey, not the destination. It's the difference between analyzing the wedding registry to see what someone might get vs. watching them open their gifts. I don't enjoy seeing what's available. I enjoy seeing what's received.


At a wedding, presumably you know the person opening those gifts or at least some of the people giving those gifts. You have some connections. The opposite is usually true in LFR - you have no connections. LFR is not and was not social. You want that, raid normal mode.

You can still have the journey while knowing what the boss drops. The journey is the raid itself, or at least the individual boss fights.

By your logic, you should be arguing that bosses shouldn't stop specific loot at all - everything should be completely random.

What you're missing is that planning and hoping can be fun, too. I like going into bosses knowing what they can drop so I can plan ahead, or so that I can offer to step out for bosses who have nothing I need so that others can get what they need. The latter, of course, can't happen in LFR and is only a part of organized raiding. Which is partly why I like organized raiding.
Edited by Hyjinx on 1/22/2013 2:33 PM PST
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90 Tauren Death Knight
4875
I just think the limitation to get only three charms per week should be lifted. I have enough minor charms to get the elder ones for a year, but I'll never use them. Why limit the number of charms you can get at a time? Hell, why cap valor points per week for that matter? That said, I like the loot system and will enjoy it even more with the "consolation prize" bags.

On another note, dailies rock! You get sweet gear from the rep and earn valors points, gold, and charms. I'll take that over heroics and LFRs any day! I think MoP is a sweet expansion and wonder what all this fuss is about...
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100 Worgen Death Knight
13700
19 SHA of Fear Kills, 11 Elegon kills and not one of the 2h weapons will drop, im starting to get a little more than upset at this. ive seen warriors with 2 of these weapons, and i cant get 1 drop after a combined 30 kills! yeah i would say you DEFINATELY need to up the percetile drop chance per kill, not cumulative as you advance thru the raid, but per boss. so everyweek an item doesnt drop on THAT boss, the chances improve the next week of an item dropping off of THAT boss. so in this case each time i get an Elegon kill ( for example ) and the weapon i am eligible to win DOENST DROP, my percentage chancve of it dropping next time is increased by 2-5%. this meaning that eventually i will get the drop, i dont mind if it takes extra runs, i dont expect anything i want to drop the first time. but after 30 kills it is a bit insulting and a smack in the face. and definately does not feel rewarding for the effort i have made. thank youfor your time and consideration.
Edited by Anùn on 1/22/2013 11:11 PM PST
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100 Dwarf Paladin
12240
2 years and not one single raid weapon has dropped for me! Last one was a Nefarion kill
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100 Worgen Death Knight
13700
happier being stupid? this is a defense for lfr loot system?
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90 Tauren Paladin
9765
I don't know about you, but im enjoying my 5 pairs of Starcrusher Gauntlets from Elegon and no weapon.
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100 Draenei Mage
8925
Dev team, why don't you join the LFR and taste for yourself?

Dev, I suggest that you run for a few months, every time get 28g (after using all Elder), then tell us how you feel. How do you feel after spending weeks to do dailies to get Elder, but got 28g in the end?
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80 Night Elf Druid
7435
Just let us use all our damn charms that we have accumulated doing all the dailies required to get rep, also increase the valor cap. Letting us use more charms will get more people loot and people will want to do dailies more. Increasing the valor cap makes it so all the valor you can after the cap isn't completely wasted.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9675

1) Show the loot everybody wins, and show people their own rolls. Both pieces of information will make it "feel" like a closer thing.


We're still not convinced this is the right way to go about it. Our initial approaches are going to be based around your personal drops, win or lose, feeling more satisfying. If it still feels like killing bosses and seeing what you get doesn't feel good, we'll continue to evaluate.


2) Give every player a hidden variable of their chance of getting loot, and for each failed roll increase that variable by a small amount. Say, 2%. If you go an entire week of full LFR with no loot, your next roll would get a +32% roll.


I made [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7414952405?page=6#106"]a recent post[/url] that covers a bit of this, and nods at some future possibilities as far as ensuring LFR runs feel rewarding. We're not looking to make LFR drops guaranteed, that kind of reliable gearing is what Justice and Valor are for not boss fights, but certainly the opposite of guaranteed can be just as bad. It's something we're looking at and talking about internally, we just don't have anything specific to share right yet.

Aside from that, we call the Elder Charm 28.50 bag the fail bag because it fails as a consolation prize in generating excitement, or even feeling like a consolation. If you don't win a piece of gear, fine it happens, but at the very least spending a charm should give you something to look forward to. Getting a bag, anticipating what might be inside, and having the possibility of being excited about what it contains is the goal. That change will be in 5.2.


I agree somehting needs to be done! The consolation of the charm is CRAP and nonexistant. If you run LFR and get no gear, and use charms and get no gear, it was a total waste of your time. If you get a partial LFR and have to reque and still get no gear it is a really big waste of time.

I am stuck cause I have been getting no gear. My only optoin is countless hours of rep grind, which I don't like but would do if I had the time, cause I want better gear.

Frankly, I have stopped doing dailies, got no time, stopped queing 2 or 3 times for the same LFR becuase you always get a partial, it isn't fun and OHH I do not have the time to do LFR twice.

You want players to feel engaged, have fun and be rewarded for there time and effort, but you are failing at that. And to top it off if you do dailies to earn charms and only get as much gold as doing a daily, you might as well take them out of the game. They do not increase you chance for gear only give you a second dismal chnace at being disappointed.
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I have to agree that the current system can be really frustrating. I'm trying to get this toon somewhat geared for reg 10 mans (my main is ilvl 487), and I think counting LFR, charm rolls and Sha kills that I am 0/16 on loot now. I understand RNG but this is a bit ridiculous and makes me want to punch my monitor.
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100 Draenei Paladin
19200
I'm gonna add in another frustration. This paladin, and my hunter both have 15-16 terrace runs each.

My hunter KEEPS getting the usless bracers from the first boss, over and over. That's even more annoying then gold. Because I just vendor them, and get half the gold I would from a bag. So I'm actually loosing money due to crap drops from the same boss.

I ONLY need the trinket and weapon on each of them, but I've gotten every other drop but those.
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90 Human Paladin
10690
I'm gonna add in another frustration. This paladin, and my hunter both have 15-16 terrace runs each.

My hunter KEEPS getting the usless bracers from the first boss, over and over. That's even more annoying then gold. Because I just vendor them, and get half the gold I would from a bag. So I'm actually loosing money due to crap drops from the same boss.

I ONLY need the trinket and weapon on each of them, but I've gotten every other drop but those.


Always getting gold and going to a single roll system would help this.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7709112621
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100 Worgen Warrior
10585
Well even though the old system led to alot of loot drama it was still more fulfilling to do when you see something being distributed. I dont care what blizzards "Phychological" interpretation of it is because its wrong. When you kill a boss everyone should see what dropped and who got it. That is what killing a boss is about. There is no sense of fulfillment when all you get is a stupid bag and whoever thought of this obviously didnt play the game.

The system was great the way it was. All you had to do was take away the roll bonus for the item if youve already won it.

Wouldnt that have been much smoother of a fix rather than taking away the "Feeling" of accomplishment?

Sometimes i wonder why they went this way?

Try this on for size and see how you feel about it.

"Lets do LFR so we can kill a boss and get a bag of gold for my time. Better yet let me use an Elder token and get more gold!"

The time it takes to get the tokens is way more substantial then actually spending them and doesnt feel rewarding for "Wasting" it because of all the time you put in to get them. At least up the bag of gold amount to 56 Gold that would be a better "Feeling" for spending it to win only gold.
Edited by Imworgenit on 1/29/2013 6:26 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Mage
11250
Look I know that you guys defend your LFR system all the time, and this is actually one of the very few posts I have ever put up on forums since BC but this kinda blows. My guild for my main (hunter) is currently on farm for all dungeons cept for Sha in TES. We are currently trying to recruit for our 25 mans so currently we just do 10 man which I usually am not a part of. Because of that in reality the only upgrade I need is a new gun. I have literally done TES in LFR for 16 weeks in a row. and for 16 weeks i either never win anything on Lei Shi or I have received the shoulders. It is honestly extremely annoying at this point that for 16 weeks I've yet to get the gun to drop and what really sucks about it is that new patch is coming out soon. I think you guys need to really assess the way the loot drops or have it be a better chance to get the upgrade you need. Overall I do like the LFR system but I think it would be better if you we're (individual not the whole raid) could see what you are rolling a coin for to see if you will even get the drop you need. For the old LFR system I honestly believe I would have received the gun I need. Let's say I am the only hunter in the lfr or there only one other hunter. I have a 50 50 chance to get it if it drops....but 16 weeks in a row is way ridiculous
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