Analysis of LFR Loot System

Community Manager

1) Show the loot everybody wins, and show people their own rolls. Both pieces of information will make it "feel" like a closer thing.


We're still not convinced this is the right way to go about it. Our initial approaches are going to be based around your personal drops, win or lose, feeling more satisfying. If it still feels like killing bosses and seeing what you get doesn't feel good, we'll continue to evaluate.


2) Give every player a hidden variable of their chance of getting loot, and for each failed roll increase that variable by a small amount. Say, 2%. If you go an entire week of full LFR with no loot, your next roll would get a +32% roll.


I made a recent post that covers a bit of this, and nods at some future possibilities as far as ensuring LFR runs feel rewarding. We're not looking to make LFR drops guaranteed, that kind of reliable gearing is what Justice and Valor are for not boss fights, but certainly the opposite of guaranteed can be just as bad. It's something we're looking at and talking about internally, we just don't have anything specific to share right yet.

Aside from that, we call the Elder Charm 28.50 bag the fail bag because it fails as a consolation prize in generating excitement, or even feeling like a consolation. If you don't win a piece of gear, fine it happens, but at the very least spending a charm should give you something to look forward to. Getting a bag, anticipating what might be inside, and having the possibility of being excited about what it contains is the goal. That change will be in 5.2.
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90 Human Death Knight
13075
Aside from that, we call the Elder Charm 28.50 bag the fail bag because it fails as a consolation prize in generating excitement, or even feeling like a consolation. If you don't win a piece of gear, fine it happens, but at the very least spending a charm should give you something to look forward to. Getting a bag, anticipating what might be inside, and having the possibility of being excited about what it contains is the goal. That change will be in 5.2.

Satchels? Yay!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16890
O_O!! Gift bags like from Blington?!

/excite

Would be the day when people make QQ posts about getting nothing but gear when they were only LFR'ing for the loot bag with a pet or something. XD

This game is too much fun!
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90 Undead Warlock
12525

Aside from that, we call the Elder Charm 28.50 bag the fail bag because it fails as a consolation prize in generating excitement, or even feeling like a consolation. If you don't win a piece of gear, fine it happens, but at the very least spending a charm should give you something to look forward to. Getting a bag, anticipating what might be inside, and having the possibility of being excited about what it contains is the goal. That change will be in 5.2.


Look, I'm not mad at the fact we're going to be getting extra stuff from the Elder Charm bag ... but, c'mon -- I still can't believe people are complaining about free gold.

Free. Gold.

Have people become such ingrates that even being giving something for free warrants complaining ?

Having bonus chances at loot (particularly in normal/heroic mode, for those of us in guilds that use a loot system that this can circumvent) is amazing beyond belief. Getting free gold in consolation for not getting those bonus gears is a double luxury that is itself almost too good to be true.

The most bizarre part of all this is that there would be less complaining if there were no gold consolation prize. People would be happier with getting less. I understand it can feel like a letdown, but it's still more than you would have gotten otherwise. l2appreciate, imo
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5595

1) Show the loot everybody wins, and show people their own rolls. Both pieces of information will make it "feel" like a closer thing.


We're still not convinced this is the right way to go about it. Our initial approaches are going to be based around your personal drops, win or lose, feeling more satisfying. If it still feels like killing bosses and seeing what you get doesn't feel good, we'll continue to evaluate.

[quote]


Perhaps not showing what individual item is won by player X, but simply that either Y number of people won, or that individual X got an (unidenfied) piece of loot?

I'm thinking most of the grief from the system is that it's an isolated win/lose scenario. We have no idea if the system is working as intended as there is no loot seen after a boss was killed, unless I, myself, happen to get something. If people were to see that other players are at least winning something , it may go a long way to people being a little more accepting of not wining something themselves?

It seems to be the psychology of the system, rather than the design of the system, that is being faulted here.
Edited by Ganthar on 1/18/2013 1:26 PM PST
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90 Orc Hunter
7790
01/18/2013 01:23 PMPosted by Tempcharac
If you study your !@#$ off, you expect that you will score well. If it comes back as a C or D, demoralised is how you will feel.
so? that has nothing to do with it - just because some people have a warped sense of reality doesn't mean that reality is wrong lol...

and the reality is that you are NOT guaranteed loot when you run LFR, so if you decide to EXPECT loot when you run LFR, that is your own warped sense of reality and you are the one with the problem, not reality =P
Edited by Zaxan on 1/18/2013 1:28 PM PST
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90 Orc Hunter
7790
01/18/2013 01:28 PMPosted by Tempcharac
so? that has nothing to do with it - just because some people have a warped sense of reality doesn't mean that reality is wrong lol...


Nothing to do with it? It's a game, it's suppose to be fun. When it's not fun for a lot of people, we have a problem - specifically Blizzard has a problem.
if you dont have fun playing a game that uses an RNG loot system, then don't play a game that uses an RNG loot system

I have fun playing a game that uses an RNG loot system, so I play a game that uses an RNG loot system...
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2 Blood Elf Warrior
0

2) Give every player a hidden variable of their chance of getting loot, and for each failed roll increase that variable by a small amount. Say, 2%. If you go an entire week of full LFR with no loot, your next roll would get a +32% roll.


There is one huge problem with this. If you win an item earlier from a boss that you did not want that item, you are gonna get so sad that you missed your increasing chance for next bosses. Right now its independent so if you win anything on first boss you still got the same constant independent chance of winning some loot on next bosses.
Edited by Cerium on 1/18/2013 1:34 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10710
Look, I'm not mad at the fact we're going to be getting extra stuff from the Elder Charm bag ... but, c'mon -- I still can't believe people are complaining about free gold.

Free. Gold.


Raid bosses typically drop gold and loot. It's not free gold, you earned it by killing the boss. What's weird is that you don't get gold when you get loot. It doesn't work that way in the other looting systems.

I don't know exactly what they are doing in 5.2, but this how it should work:

Kill the boss, get a bag. Every time.
Use a coin, get a bag. Every time.

The bag should contain:
Gold (every time)
Gear (some of the time)
Vanity stuff (optional, some of the time)
Edited by Yandere on 1/18/2013 1:37 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10710

2) Give every player a hidden variable of their chance of getting loot, and for each failed roll increase that variable by a small amount. Say, 2%. If you go an entire week of full LFR with no loot, your next roll would get a +32% roll.


There is one huge problem with this. If you win an item earlier from a boss that you did not want that item, you are gonna get so sad that you missed your increasing chance for next bosses. Right now its independent so if you win anything on first boss you still got the same constant independent chance of winning some loot on next bosses.


Not a problem. It's a hidden variable and it's not intended to guarantee you the loot you want.
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90 Draenei Shaman
13805
01/18/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Bashiok
Aside from that, we call the Elder Charm 28.50 bag the fail bag because it fails as a consolation prize in generating excitement, or even feeling like a consolation.
I'm still scratching my head over why people are upset about the bag when the old system gave you absolutely nothing. I personally like the way things work now and am glad that the gear drops directly into my inventory. Heck, I'd be happy if the gold went straight into my inventory without the need for me to even click the bag. That having been said, I can anticipate a point when all drops off a boss will be useless to me and I would rather have the bag. At that point "winning" will actually feel like a loss because much of that gear doesn't vendor for as much as the bag contains. It would be nice if we had a choice in what we were rolling for. Options like:
  • Offspec Gear
  • Flasks
  • Mount
  • Pet
I would love to see a dialog similar to the Need/Greed/Pass dialog that lets you pick a category of item to roll for. The loot rates wouldn't even have to be constant across categories. For example, a mount roll would be much harder to win than an Offspec Gear roll. I think that would help players feel a little bit more anticipation after a kill and it would reduce all the QQ we're seeing now over winning duplicate items.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9625
Hi,

I actually feel strongly enough about this to have re-activated my account just so I can post (I know crazy etc...)

Another thing for which you have not accounted for is that in a normal raid existing gear in the overall raid improves which means less people need on the same items which drastically improves the chances of getting an item piece.

In a normal raid that has been going for a month or two the chances are that the piece that drops is no longer required by most of the raid. This is completely ignored once you look at the current LFR setup. It essentially assumes that nobody is geared for the first piece dropped. (15%) Once you have one piece the subsequent drops usefulness drops of sharply and it still assumes nobody is geared and everybody will need on it (if they can use it).

If it was a real raid the second drop would not have been needed by all the people who can wear it since they may have won it when it first piece dropped.

PS. Blizzard can you please setup some kind of email notification system that will notify a person once the original reason for their decision to stop their subscription changes. We all know it takes months for Blizzard to realize their mistakes and being a programmer myself I also know that it takes almost just as long to get a business case created, funded, functionally spec'd, technically spec'd, coded, tested and then released.

Side note: It is amazing how many people who do real raiding (aka normal/hardcore raiding) comments on something that does not concern them.
Edited by Shavira on 1/18/2013 1:43 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10710
01/18/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Ronduwil
I'm still scratching my head over why people are upset about the bag when the old system gave you absolutely nothing.


You got gold with every boss kill under the old system. I wouldn't call that nothing.
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2 Blood Elf Warrior
0


There is one huge problem with this. If you win an item earlier from a boss that you did not want that item, you are gonna get so sad that you missed your increasing chance for next bosses. Right now its independent so if you win anything on first boss you still got the same constant independent chance of winning some loot on next bosses.


Not a problem. It's a hidden variable and it's not intended to guarantee you the loot you want.


3 Problems:

a) People are gonna find out about it.
b) Since it will increase drop chance Blizzard will need to decrease the initial drop chance to balance out the overall rate of gear dropping
c) Even if they don't do (b), the psychological problem is there: The chances are better than before or equal whether or not you win something on prev bosses, However when you win something you didn't want, you know it has already slightly decreased your chance of winning something in further bosses which is bad.
Edited by Cerium on 1/18/2013 1:47 PM PST
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