Shadow PvP 5.2

100 Human Warlock
10785
"I really hope you address priest talents and streamline their glyphs. Spriests need double dispel in pvp for lack of utility"
Disagree. We predict Shadow is going to be the new spec everyone complains about in PvP with all these other changes. (Source)
"if you predict everyone will be complaining about Shadow, are you also implying that the buffs are too much?"
I just meant there are no real nerfs for them in 5.2 yet and we suspect they're flying under the radar at the moment. (Source)

I don't know how to quote from Twitter in these forums. I'm not a Twitter user so, my bad. But the above are from GC on Twitter and here is my suggested solution:

Shadow is DPS while Disc and Holy are healing. Blizzard is buffing Disc slightly and Holy a lot in 5.2 by, as just one route, buffing the Focused Will damage reduction from 10% per application to 15% for Disc and giving the buffed version to Holy as well.

Shadow is suspected to be flying under the radar and OP. Well, it is VERY strong right now and in 5.2 will get a slight buff to off-healing. My suggestion:

Make Inner Fire a SPELL POWER bonus only for Disc/Holy. It is the only caster to get a double 10% bonus to spell power. It stacks with AI, DI and Burning Wrath. So, have this spell power bonus only for Disc and Holy but let Shadow keep the armor bonus.

NOTE: I do not PvE at all anymore. I know there is a HUGE rivalry between PvE and PvP players. Each complain they receive nerfs because of the other type of game play. I don't know the state of Shadow in PvE but in a BRIEF forum search have not seen massive complaining in raids. As such assume they are doing just fine in PvE and this would not destroy them. So, please, understand this is JUST A PVP BALANCING SUGGESTION and I am NOT trying to "OMGWTF LOCK WANTS TO KILL US!?!?!?!?!"
Edited by Zaef on 1/18/2013 6:55 PM PST
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90 Undead Priest
8305
Our damage isn't the problem though. So, changing that won't solve anything..especially on the PvE side. Our single target damage is lacking compared to most classes, so that would hurt us even more.

Our problem is the amount of utility we have to support our team. If they just took Void Shift away for Shadow and gave us something else or changed it up, we'd be fine.
Edited by Jaosix on 1/18/2013 8:16 PM PST
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100 Human Warlock
10785
Hmm interesting. Void Shift is VERY powerful, but it's no more than a Ret being able to HoP his caster partner. As much as I love VS on my Priest and hate it on my other toons, I think the problem is your off-healing which will be buffed in the 5.2 patch.

PoM, PW: Shield don't pop you out of SF which is great convenience if glyphed, but in 5.2 that will be even more powerful. I really think the Inner Fire change will be fine for PvP. I don't know if you were talking PvE or not, but if you have excessive utility, then your damage should be subject to that.

The way I've always thought of hybrid dps since I started playing in BC was that it should be slightly lower than pure dps classes as that's what they DO. As such, the utility of such hybrids should counter that slightly less/lower dps. I'm fine w/SPriests having utility as they should, but being as bursty as they are and having the damage they do I think is the issue.

So, as a hybrid, you should have the utility and not the damage. If you are complaining about the utility of Void Shift, or I should say accusing it as being the point of PvP concern, then I'd say you should play a pure dps class. Then you wouldn't have to worry about utility issues and just pew pew.

You can have one or the other: max dps or utility. As a hybrid you can't have both. Personally, hybrids should have utility and not max dmg. As a Warlock I have healing abilities but nothing close to Flash Heal that I can spam. Because of that option, no matter the mana cost, SPriest damage has to be put into check.

Some people will complain about that, but dude, you're a hybrid. You shouldn't do as much damage as someone who can't pillar hump to heal. Right?
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90 Troll Priest
13045
priests are being double nerfed in pvp in 5.2 DP no longer does any burst, the damage that was burst is being baked into the dot

flash heal is being nerfed 30% (for shadow only)

shadow is getting double pve single target buffed in 5.2 with the new talent instanity and the fact that all of DP's damage is DoT now means all of its damage is affected by mastery
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100 Undead Priest
10295
Shadow got nerfed.

Blizzard can go to hell.
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90 Troll Priest
13045
Shadow got nerfed.

Blizzard can go to hell.
not sure if serious but from my perspective we got buffed
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90 Undead Priest
4435
01/18/2013 11:50 PMPosted by Xenthia
not sure if serious but from my perspective we got buffed


It is a nerf for PvP, a buff if you squint and want to look at it that way for PvE.

Shadow lacks burst, but has good steady damage for PvP. Lacking burst hurts us in some ways, and the lack of up front Dev Plague and a 3 sec 50% left over DoT was ideal for us. Now, it is just the same damage but over 6 seconds, which means no big hit up front (and yes seconds matter) and it is easier to dispell.

Yes, we can VT the target first, but that is only if you can get a hard cast off, and in PvP, that isn't always doable, since CC is redonkerous. So, with it being more likely to be dispelled or healed through since there is no up front, big hit damage, it is a bit of a nerf for PvP.

Believe it or not, some of us don't PvE. I'm tired of PvE buffs nerfing PvP, and vice versa. Not a QQ, but it is a bit of a nerf.
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90 Undead Priest
8350
Ok, I just got off the PTR, Insanity has lots of burst.
At least until people learn to dispel...
I guess it's nice until then.
Yay for pve buffs : /
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100 Undead Priest
13865
Our damage isn't the problem though. So, changing that won't solve anything..especially on the PvE side. Our single target damage is lacking compared to most classes, so that would hurt us even more.

Our problem is the amount of utility we have to support our team. If they just took Void Shift away for Shadow and gave us something else or changed it up, we'd be fine.


Yo Jaosix,

Its called Ability Bloat. We have all that !@#$ because at a fundamental level, the specialization's core is flawed. If they take away or nerf any of those abilities, the specialization will be left with its fundamental flaws and will become gimped. I agree that we have too much utility, but we just can't pull the rug out from under the shadow priest community without adressing those fundamental flaws first.

Whatever they give us better impact us on that flawed fundamental level or else it won't be meaningful.

The best place to start is the shadow orb resource mechanic.
Edited by Dreamskull on 2/4/2013 2:43 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
16415
02/04/2013 12:54 PMPosted by Dreamskull
The best place to start is the shadow orb resource mechanic.


They just need to get rid of it. It's clunky and lame. It feels like ret pally did at the beginning of Cata, which sucked bad enough they fixed them but then gave us the broken prototype. No other class has to sacrifice 100k+ damage to use their only reliable source of crowd control, just sayin.

01/19/2013 01:41 AMPosted by Hadesmaybe
the lack of up front Dev Plague and a 3 sec 50% left over DoT was ideal for us. Now, it is just the same damage but over 6 seconds, which means no big hit up front (and yes seconds matter) and it is easier to dispell.


The DoT effect on DP is 6 seconds long now, restoring 6% of health per second with 3 orbs. The duration is exactly the same. I'm hoping it ticks initially and that counts so it will tick 7 times instead of 6. Except that would be a buff to our selfheals and GC wants us on our knees apparently.

Hmm interesting. Void Shift is VERY powerful, but it's no more than a Ret being able to HoP his caster partner. As much as I love VS on my Priest and hate it on my other toons, I think the problem is your off-healing which will be buffed in the 5.2 patch.

PoM, PW: Shield don't pop you out of SF which is great convenience if glyphed, but in 5.2 that will be even more powerful. I really think the Inner Fire change will be fine for PvP. I don't know if you were talking PvE or not, but if you have excessive utility, then your damage should be subject to that.

The way I've always thought of hybrid dps since I started playing in BC was that it should be slightly lower than pure dps classes as that's what they DO. As such, the utility of such hybrids should counter that slightly less/lower dps. I'm fine w/SPriests having utility as they should, but being as bursty as they are and having the damage they do I think is the issue.

So, as a hybrid, you should have the utility and not the damage. If you are complaining about the utility of Void Shift, or I should say accusing it as being the point of PvP concern, then I'd say you should play a pure dps class. Then you wouldn't have to worry about utility issues and just pew pew.

You can have one or the other: max dps or utility. As a hybrid you can't have both. Personally, hybrids should have utility and not max dmg. As a Warlock I have healing abilities but nothing close to Flash Heal that I can spam. Because of that option, no matter the mana cost, SPriest damage has to be put into check.

Some people will complain about that, but dude, you're a hybrid. You shouldn't do as much damage as someone who can't pillar hump to heal. Right?


Blizzard has long moved past the whole hybrid tax thing. It's no longer a consideration when balancing dps output. Shadow doesn't really have a lot of burst, I don't know what people are talking about. My DP hits for like 40k on a full resilience target and it takes FOREVER for me to use it, and then I have to decide "am I going to use DP in a vain attempt to kill that healer or PH to save my teammate from the warrior/dk/rogue/kitty that is eating his face." Mindspike hits for even less, Mind Blast hits for about the same as Mind Spike. So compare those spells to any mage nuke, chaos bolt, executes, what have you. Our DoTs are incredibly weak, probably the weakest out of the "dot" specs (SV hunter Serpent Sting deals more damage per tick than SW:P and VT put together and it's instant cast and spammable. Just an example, not saying SV is op). Mine tick for about 3.5k, or about 1% health of an "Okishbutnotreally" geared target, so basically nothing. You put dots up and pray to the wow gods that you will get MS/MB procs (which is indirectly being nerfed via glyph of mind spike).

Void Shift is really the only spell that really deserves to be looked at, and even then it's not that much worse than what other people can do on their long cooldowns and it's fairly easily negated if used unwisely. There are plenty of other classes that can offheal just as effectively as priests (outside of void shift) and have more cc and peels and burst. Shadow is only strong with a competent group of players that can support you and keep you alive long enough for you to do your thing. I don't see how that is OP.
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1 Human Rogue
0
Shadow got nerfed.

Blizzard can go to hell.


Amen, The thing i dont understand they let some classes stunlock you to death all thur cata and most of Lichking and do notthing to them. We wernt op. We had to hang back in a group, hide behind a tree, a rock. They have been taking the fun out of this class. I dont think they khow what to do with this class anymore.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13810
Priest
- We are reverting the change to how Devouring Plague deals damage. It will have more up-front damage in 5.2 as it does in 5.1. We think the more recent nerfs to Shadow healing and Phantasm are more appropriate changes for PvP
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90 Undead Priest
7740
Priest
- We are reverting the change to how Devouring Plague deals damage. It will have more up-front damage in 5.2 as it does in 5.1. We think the more recent nerfs to Shadow healing and Phantasm are more appropriate changes for PvP


Who was seriously complaining about Phantasm?

It's only slightly more annoying than Feign Death, and the same as post Ice Block.

So they're buffing our burst, which is a 'sometimes' complaint; Nerfing our escape kit two-fold, which is never complained about; And ignoring Void Shift, which is constantly complained about.

Could they possibly miss more marks than what they're suggesting for 5.2 Priests?
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