[Patch 5.2] The Future of Resto Druids

100 Night Elf Druid
18890
Rdruid was garbage in cata going into mop just to be hurt most by the 30% healing nerf.
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90 Human Death Knight
13965
good post, rdruids look really strong because of their toolkit but their heals have become weaker and weaker as the season goes on.

ps put jjuice on ignore


One of the main reasons that druid healing output is weaker then other healers is because of how mobility, hard to CC, and their large CC toolkit is.

I mean if they could heal through burst like Shaman and Paladin while keeping all their other toys they would be overpowered.

Seems druids want to go back to 3 lifeblooms and a rejuv forcing a switch because just having those instant cast up prevented a kill on a target. I would prefer not to see us go back to Season 7 & 8 where druids were the only healer because they could keep people up with nothing but instant cast hots.

Sorry but theres alot wrong with what you are saying here. Druids have great mobility, but they are easier to cc then almost all other healers. Pallys have another trinket/ immunity and Huge burst/ instant heals. Shamans have an o crap cd like it with spirit link/ healing tide totem along with again huge burst heals( even more so with how their mastery scales). They also have tremor/ grounding to really help prevent as much cc on them. While i dont think priests are better they have fear ward, and life swap, making them harder to cc and giving them a cd to stop a kill. Druids have treeform, while good at preventing a kill, destroys your mana and can be CCd through. After the healing nerf out hots are absolute crap, and regardless if i have someone fully hotted they can and will die unless lifebloom is procing at the perfect time to keep them up. Without trinket we are extremely screwed when it comes to being CCed, because we dont have the burst heals to catch back up well. This didnt used to be as bad of a problem when our hots were actually worth something. It is ridiculous to say that druids shouldnt be able to heal as much as shamans/pallys because of the CC when pallys have an even better CC toolkit! Intsa hoj from 40 yards, making it impossible to prevent, which makes it impossible to stop from getting reped and blinded after. Thats 3 big CCs , one instant and 1 aoe. Compared to druids 6 sec clone, which is great, you have to be withing 20 yards and put your self in crap position becoming susceptible to a swap. WE also have dispelable roots, which can be good in some situations, but mainly just eats up 4 seconds so it can be dispelled > safegaurded out of. I cant tell you how many times i have had a teammate ( dk/priest/mage) die with full hots( with spell power trinket and mastery up) while i sit some instant 8 second CC. Im not saying hots should always mean life like season 8, just that it shouldnt be 100-0. Right now to be glad competitive as a rdruid you have to play with a spriest for his immunity/swap/ offheals ( great group cds they have) or a mage for iceblock/ second trinket. Or both. Playing with teamates who dont have an immunity cd is much harder, and will only be worse when the dr change goes through. Why play with a druid as a mage when you can take pally with a bubble/better burst heals and cc that wont dr? The number of comps where people will actually want to take a druid will be next to none, the only one i can think of is shadowplay. There is no comp that a rdruid would be better for then a shaman or pally, except godcomp which will be broken with next patch.
Long story short druids hots and burst healing is very weak, and with no second trinket/ immunity CD druids get their butt kicked from all the instant CCs and crazy Cd stacking thats going.

as far as changes id like to see-- We need more output. Especialy if the clone nerf goes through ( god i hope not, as its the only thing we have that makes us alittle bit wanted as a healer) we absolutely need a buff to our healing to be viable or competitive. Maybe reverse the healing fatigue increase? Or a 15% increase to our base mastery?
And/ or some way to break CC. We have a great toolkit to avoid ccs with our shapeshifting, but it doesnt do jack when 90% of its instant. Insta polly/ insta fear that cant be los/ getting cced into a rep pretty much takes that element out. A way to break CC, or an immunity would be very nice and would bring us up to being as good as shammys/ paladins( maybe).
An aura mastery type of spell would even work pretty nicely.
The blanket silence nerf/ bloodfear nerf will help us alot, so we might be able to actually fakecast and hardcast abit more. It wont help against warbringerstun> shockwave>strangulate> death with all cds thou, which is why i still think we need an output buff or a better cd to manage some of it.

If the clone nerf goes through, and/or if we dont get some passivve healing buff druids will be as bad or worse then they were in cata.
Edited by Narbondel on 1/11/2013 9:10 PM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
8915
Pretty much they are punishing Resto druids for having CC that doesn't DR with one of their only super viable comps, which they rely on...
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17 Night Elf Priest
40
Resto Druids need the nerfs they're getting.

Instant prowl on a 30 second cooldown was overpowered. Cyclone getting diminishing returns with other spells, it's about time, because playing against Godcomp is so frustrating that it makes me want to throw my computer out the window. There is too much CC in this game, and Druids were a large part of it because of Cyclone.

Players have to die, and the only way to do that right now is with burst damage. Why? Because healer mana bars don't deplete quickly enough. I've experienced many games where they barely budged at all. If people can't run you out of mana, the only other alternative is to burst a person down and pray you are CCed long enough to not be able to pick the player back up.

Cyclone is great at 20 yards! It's a powerful CC. You should have to expose yourself to use such an effective CC on other players. If healers were able to easily CC people at range with no cooldown, games wouldn't end because healers would constantly slow down the flow of damage while hiding behind their pillars. A burst kill would be much harder to pull off.

The 5.1 change to Battle Fatigue hurt everyone that uses heals. No healer was spared. Overpowered DPS classes also affect everyone. Blizzard took steps to bring Warriors into line.

The game needs fewer instant heals and fewer burst heals so that players can die when they healer is not out of mana. Healers need to cast. That's a rare occurence in today's PvP.


I don't think I can disagree with this post more on every count except the frustration that goes along with playing against a very good druid.

The 'too much cc in this game' complaint applies to many of the instant cc's that were added to the game with MOP: blood fear, psyfiend, blinding light, deep freeze baseline, short CD on NS as it is used with cyclone, paralysis, etc. I'm aware one can make a case for typhoon, disorienting roar, vortex; these may well be debatable. Feral's use of PS giving insta-cyclone in MoP has been the sole source of the cyclone imbalance. Baseline clone, hibernate, and roots for boomkin/resto have not been any problem nor in need of fixing.

Prowl associated with DB is powerful, no question, and at 30 sec CD it is worth debating. However with the abundance of burst and melee uptime, it is a needed self peel to a class very vulnerable to the burst in game. Without this, resto druids in particular would need significantly more attention than other healers from teammates in rated pvp. I've played on both sides. This is basically a resto druids' only deterrence from being trained into the ground by melee and casters alike. Though tree, bear + might of ursoc, typhoon, shifting roots, dash may encourage switching off the druid: none of these force the switch. The resto druid toolkit does not support even moderate tanking in the way shaman or disc kits do - I do see how both need tweaks though.

Lastly, battle fatigue did not hurt all healers equally. 30% reduced from a pally or shaman big heal is still over 100k, resto druids only viable controlled direct heals crit for under 60k now (swiftmend and regrowth) in full mal t2 with 25% MS up. Though battle fatigue may be across the board, the reduction in healing is regressive and has pushed resto druids (the class with the lowest direct heals per GCD) to the brink of viability on live (I can make a case that druids are not currently viable). In the game built around burst, druid's need to have enough in response to be competitive.

Players do have to die. But it seems convenient to let the resto druids' or their teammates lead that charge to slaughter by design.

(I've played 8 toons to 2100+ with 2500xp on 2 of them since wotlk including all healers but monk. I say this to offer some context for what is only my informed opinion from my somewhat broad, yet fallible, perspective).
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90 Troll Priest
10565
Resto Druids need the nerfs they're getting.

Instant prowl on a 30 second cooldown was overpowered. Cyclone getting diminishing returns with other spells, it's about time, because playing against Godcomp is so frustrating that it makes me want to throw my computer out the window. There is too much CC in this game, and Druids were a large part of it because of Cyclone.

Players have to die, and the only way to do that right now is with burst damage. Why? Because healer mana bars don't deplete quickly enough. I've experienced many games where they barely budged at all. If people can't run you out of mana, the only other alternative is to burst a person down and pray you are CCed long enough to not be able to pick the player back up.

Cyclone is great at 20 yards! It's a powerful CC. You should have to expose yourself to use such an effective CC on other players. If healers were able to easily CC people at range with no cooldown, games wouldn't end because healers would constantly slow down the flow of damage while hiding behind their pillars. A burst kill would be much harder to pull off.

The 5.1 change to Battle Fatigue hurt everyone that uses heals. No healer was spared. Overpowered DPS classes also affect everyone. Blizzard took steps to bring Warriors into line.

The game needs fewer instant heals and fewer burst heals so that players can die when they healer is not out of mana. Healers need to cast. That's a rare occurence in today's PvP.


I don't think I can disagree with this post more on every count except the frustration that goes along with playing against a very good druid.

The 'too much cc in this game' complaint applies to many of the instant cc's that were added to the game with MOP: blood fear, psyfiend, blinding light, deep freeze baseline, short CD on NS as it is used with cyclone, paralysis, etc. I'm aware one can make a case for typhoon, disorienting roar, vortex; these may well be debatable. Feral's use of PS giving insta-cyclone in MoP has been the sole source of the cyclone imbalance. Baseline clone, hibernate, and roots for boomkin/resto have not been any problem nor in need of fixing.

Prowl associated with DB is powerful, no question, and at 30 sec CD it is worth debating. However with the abundance of burst and melee uptime, it is a needed self peel to a class very vulnerable to the burst in game. Without this, resto druids in particular would need significantly more attention than other healers from teammates in rated pvp. I've played on both sides. This is basically a resto druids' only deterrence from being trained into the ground by melee and casters alike. Though tree, bear + might of ursoc, typhoon, shifting roots, dash may encourage switching off the druid: none of these force the switch. The resto druid toolkit does not support even moderate tanking in the way shaman or disc kits do - I do see how both need tweaks though.

Lastly, battle fatigue did not hurt all healers equally. 30% reduced from a pally or shaman big heal is still over 100k, resto druids only viable controlled direct heals crit for under 60k now (swiftmend and regrowth) in full mal t2 with 25% MS up. Though battle fatigue may be across the board, the reduction in healing is regressive and has pushed resto druids (the class with the lowest direct heals per GCD) to the brink of viability on live (I can make a case that druids are not currently viable). In the game built around burst, druid's need to have enough in response to be competitive.

Players do have to die. But it seems convenient to let the resto druids' or their teammates lead that charge to slaughter by design.

(I've played 8 toons to 2100+ with 2500xp on 2 of them since wotlk including all healers but monk. I say this to offer some context for what is only my informed opinion from my somewhat broad, yet fallible, perspective).


Can we pls be friends?
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100 Night Elf Druid
14145
so since you took everyting good we had and nerfed it, what exactly are we getting in return?

because the 10% healing buff and mushrooms arn't gonna make us viable.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11385
im just dreading how terrible my survivability as a feral outside of major cds is going to be without being able to clone someone's cds

dr change to cyclone doesn't even bother me, the 30 sec cooldown is going to hurt the most. just remove cyclone from PS and let me hard cast it.
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90 Worgen Druid
7230
01/06/2013 04:54 PMPosted by Jjuice
lol, you thought Blizzard cared about this issue? Sorry. They don't.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10370
01/06/2013 08:31 PMPosted by Szii
single good DPS can and will rip through everything I've got (62% resil + Rejuv + 3xLB(glyphed) and Barksin(glyphed) ) outside of Incarnation.


I haven't PvP'd on my druid in a while, but are you using Ironbark? Just because it can be cast on others doesn't mean you can't use it as a second barkskin/stack it with BS for extra reduction
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100 Human Death Knight
16795
A few thoughts on rDruids in arenas; I'm glad all you folks are being polite but what are all these tools you keep talking about?

Druids, in general, are more susceptible to cc death than every other toon in the game because trinket is their only defense to; stun, fear, disorient, sap, etc. Their only immunity either automatically or via available tool is to polymorph and considering the current state of that class why would you even bring it up in the first place?

Allowing movement impairing cc's to be dispelled by transforming requires a GCD each time you use it and all while not healing. Consider how many GCDs are used to free yourself from repeated applications of chains of ice and howling blast and then compare it to hPaly who continues to heal while immune or priest who is just immune or monk who just drops ring of peace and not only doesn't need to run away, starts dps'ing you.

Some of a rdruid's cc's requires a GCD to transform and another to cast and yet another to begin healing again. What is that, 4 seconds to cast fae silence which only lasts for 3 seconds or did you ever even attempt to get off a maim on another healer? Not to mention, attempting to hard cast cyclone while under pressure from a rogue or warrior is a joke.

The use of tree in its current state is stupid. Even without the use of pvp addons, the huge purple advertisement is all the warning folks need to start a cc chain or hard swap and it requires a GCD just to get into the form and another just to get your first cast off. How many other healing classes' need 3 or more seconds plus reaction time before their first burst heal hits its target?

As for the 30 second stealth cd, who cares? You have to be out of combat for six seconds or use a racial just to use it and Druids have a speed penalty while stealthed. They can also be easily revealed by other stealthy classes even though the druid can't see the other guy and because of the speed penalty are susceptible to a wide variety of aoe attacks.

Yes I understand that there is a glyph to remove the speed penalty but the use of that glyph requires the druid to give up a healing benefit or an instant cc. More importantly than the conversation about whether to use the glyph or not is the reality that any damage including dots will bring you out of stealth so why would you waste a glyph on that?

Nerfing cyclone is a wasted conversation unless Blizzard intends to nerf every other chain cc in the game. I would gladly trade cyclone for aoe fear and priest traps. More importantly than that is the conversation about how weak the duration is on every cc a druid has. An earlier post pointed out very specifically where rDruid cc's come up short as compared to every other class in the game so stop talking about how cyclone is overpowered.

An easy fix for druids would be to make barkskin and displacer beast remove loss of control effects on the target and provide a short term damage immunity similar to what other healing classes already have. That simple change along with comparable damage reduction to other classes when using barkskin and ironbark would go a long way toward fixing rDruids and they could do it right now.
Edited by Larac on 3/25/2013 12:03 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
3910
Why would ANYONE pick a resto druid over pally, priest or shaman for healer in arena.

check out the top arena rankings, VERY few resto druids. I wonder why?? It's not like our skill cap is very high, we're just the weakest healer right now.

and i like how people are still using the argument "cyclone is OP", cyclone isn't OP - CC in general is OP. Even if it was overpowered what does that say about there being very small amounts of resto druids in top rankings? focusing on a single spell is pointless.

resto druids aren't very good right now... it's been awhile since they have been good. I hope that changes in 5.3.. doubt it will.
Edited by Natureswrath on 3/25/2013 1:26 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
3910

Druids, in general, are more susceptible to cc death than every other toon in the game because trinket is their only defense to; stun, fear, disorient, sap, etc.


Seriously, this is the biggest problem for resto druid right now. CC has never been so powerful, and all we have to break it is the single tricket. Sure we can break out of roots and avoid being poly'd - but against fears, stuns, iceblocks, charms etc.. we have nothing. When im playing arena I always hope to fight a resto druid over priest, pally or shaman, it's so much easier to control a resto druid.

I feel we lack utility; we have so few spells / abilities compared to other classes, this is why our skill cap isn't very high. We need more buttons to press, it feels very bland playing a resto druid right now. When I play feral I easily have over 25+ abilities that I use, as resto it's close to 10?

What makes it even MORE BLAND, is that nearly all pvp resto druid use the exact same spec. No diversity, little choice... our talents are so one-sided right now.

blizzard really needs to have a good look at resto druids.
Edited by Natureswrath on 3/25/2013 1:30 AM PDT
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Bigmoran 2013

<3
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90 Tauren Druid
9125
love the post, but blizzard won't change. Oh wait, blizzard states they listen to valid ideas. Nvm, I was dreaming.
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100 Troll Druid
18965
Although I have never been above 1600 in rbgs or arenas, I have only capped conq weekly for gear because my class for the past few years has been weaker than the other healers.

Two points that I would like to make:
1.There are a few very skilled resto druids out there...but why play one when a resto druid has to work ten times harder to get the same results as a shaman or pally. A resto druid in full Mal is worse than a shaman or pally in crafted pvp gear. YES, I just said that. Why? because most 3s teams pop all cds at the start and blow someone up when a resto druid is involved. Get a druid behind on heals and someone will die.
2.Druids have been like this since the start of WoTLK with an exception of one season. GC or any dev lead will never change the status of druids. Why? because pallys, mages and rogues make a vast majority of the wow population. Making resto druids viable and able to play on a level playing field or making those three classes less than borderline op at all times and subs start to disappear. Rogues were weak at the start of mists but look at them now...the days of the customer is always right or corporations listening to their customers if over because GC has more loyalty to the shareholders.

Anyway I'll stop and prevent this from turning into a QQ session or economics lesson but the only way to improve resto druids is to shift the game away from pve or show GC videos of how lolable druids are....i doubt he has ever seen a high rated MMR arena. Oh wait...are there any high rated MMR arena videos.....I kid.....but seriously.
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90 Night Elf Druid
3910
big moran lol

looking forward to next season to respec to feral. the current state of resto is frustrating
Edited by Natureswrath on 3/27/2013 2:37 AM PDT
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