New expansion:The Past,(A)High Elves,(H)Ogres

100 Troll Shaman
5930
01/11/2013 08:50 AMPosted by Fyersing
If you're talking about change then the only (i.e. singularly exclusive) relevant points of interests are the turning points; in the case of the fracturing of High Elves / Blood Elves, they exists not unlike the British and the early Americans -- as distinct groups, culturally and otherwise.

Case in point, the Blood Elves have been transformed by their experience and suffering and have grown as a people into something interesting.

The High Elves are pointy-eared Humans with nothing to bring to the table which couldn't be better served by Humans or Night Elves.

Totally different.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
Case in point, the Blood Elves have been transformed by their experience and suffering and have grown as a people into something interesting.

The High Elves are pointy-eared Humans with nothing to bring to the table which couldn't be better served by Humans or Night Elves.

Totally different.


That's certainly one view of their usefulness, but nonetheless, different is different.
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100 Undead Warlock
7010
If you're going by that logic then I'm not an American, I'm British.
But the British aren't British, they're Anglo-Saxons.
But the Anglo-Saxons aren't Anglo-Saxon, they're Old Saxons.
But the Old Saxons aren't Old Saxons, they're proto-Germanics.
But the proto-Germanics aren't proto-Germanics, they're archaic homosapiens sapiens.
So, then, since we all share a history I'm not American at all. I'm primordial goo.

Your earliest example has over 200 years' difference; between high elves and blood elves, it's more like 20 or so. If that. Also, since blood elves and high elves are anatomically identical, any model changes would seem rather forced.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
01/11/2013 09:01 AMPosted by Nuriele
Your earliest example has over 200 years' difference; between high elves and blood elves, it's more like 20 or so. If that. Also, since blood elves and high elves are anatomically identical, any model changes would seem rather forced.


It doesn't really matter if it was 5 years or 500 years, if change occurs then change occurs -- a mutual history doesn't negate this as a fact. It took less than 6 years for almost every prominent member of 1920's Germany to politically, culturally and to an extent linguistically shift from one mentality (democratic republicanism) to another (meritocratic republicanism / authoritarianism).

The timeframe is irrelevant to anything other than anatomical discussions.

Edit: Also, the first successful British Colony in the Americas was founded in 1607 and it had an official rebellion against the then governmental establishment less than 70 years later in 1676 (Bacon's Rebellion). The sentiment that the British and the colonists, or Americans, were not mutually in agreement on the purpose of their existence at that time was already becoming clear.
Edited by Fyersing on 1/11/2013 9:22 AM PST
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95 Goblin Mage
9680
01/11/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Cyclonyc
Sorry, but as horde players, who do you think you are to dictate to blizzard, and indeed alliance members, which races they can/can't or should/shouldn't have?

I'm a paying customer of World of Warcraft who has an opinion on how the game development funds should be allocated. Money that can be spent on making playable high elves would be far better used to develop something that's actually interesting.

Humans with pointy ears are not that.

EDIT: Quite frankly considering the races they currently have playable are rather lacking on interesting lore, I think it's flat out stupid to make anymore. Nigh elf players have been raging for more lore, tauren players would like some attention, draenei players have all but given up on getting loved, and let's not forget that we've not seen hardly anything from Gallywix, Genn Greymane, or Aysa and Ji past their respective racial starting zones.

Instead of making any new races or classes for the next expansion, Blizzard should make new and better story for what we already have.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere we go again.

Abandon thread, derpstorm incoming with a high chance of hot air and butthurt.

Oh please, you make it sound as if this thread had anything interesting going on for it to begin with. From the start this has just been another high elf thread plus some change.
Edited by Jetzeppelin on 1/11/2013 9:24 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
01/11/2013 09:20 AMPosted by Jetzeppelin
Humans with pointy ears are not that.


I am quite intrigued by this comparison, of late. I often find myself wondering how this applies to High Elves but not Blood Elves.
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95 Goblin Mage
9680
Probably because blood elves have a degree of their own culture, a racial identity (even though it paints them as extreme narcissism personified and feeling that they're entitled to be treated special at all times).

Can the same be said about humans? Not really. Certainly not blood elves either, who've pretty much spend the past five years as sidekicks to humans.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
Probably because blood elves have a degree of their own culture, a racial identity (even though it paints them as extreme narcissism personified and feeling that they're entitled to be treated special at all times).

Can the same be said about humans? Not really. Certainly not blood elves either, who've pretty much spend the past five years as sidekicks to humans.


So humans aren't... unique? I fail to see how you concluded as much.

The gnomes were shacked up with the Ironforge Dwarves for the better part of the last couple decades, does that mean they're also bland, unoriginal and lifeless? I'd even go so far as to mirror that sentiment upon Worgen, Goblins and Trolls.

Edit: The answer you're looking for is, "no, I was wrong. I'm bad and should feel bad."
Edited by Fyersing on 1/11/2013 9:39 AM PST
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95 Goblin Mage
9680
01/11/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Fyersing
So humans aren't... unique? I fail to see how you concluded as much.

I never said humans weren't unique. I said they didn't have the same racial identity as blood elves. Theirs is not an ultra-narcissistic and self-absorbed culture where as belves are.

What I AM saying is that high elves are not unique at all. There's nothing that I can see about them that states "this is what makes a high elf" other than blue eyes, white skin, and long ears.

Gnomes, dwarves, goblins, trolls, and even worgen at least have things that sets them apart from all the rest. Your argument is invalid.

01/11/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Fyersing
Edit: The answer you're looking for is, "no, I was wrong. I'm bad and should feel bad."

Considering you just failed at reading comprehension you really have nothing to do but insert your foot in your mouth and suck on it for a while.
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100 Undead Warlock
7010
I never said humans weren't unique. I said they didn't have the same racial identity as blood elves. Theirs is not an ultra-narcissistic and self-absorbed culture where as belves are.

Blood elf culture... isn't really that either. I, at least, have never noticed any narcissism; that's something I'd apply to, say, the mogu.
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95 Goblin Mage
9680
Oh come on. Lor'themar was about ready to call it quits on the Horde and renegotiate with the Alliance just because Garrosh wasn't treating them as well as he thought they should have been treated. The only thing that kept them around is because Dalaran became something they hated more and were willing to put up with it in order to get back at those who they felt wronged them.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
01/11/2013 10:08 AMPosted by Nuriele
Blood elf culture... isn't really that either. I, at least, have never noticed any narcissism; that's something I'd apply to, say, the mogu.


Er, no, Blood Elves are pretty narcissistic. How can they not be when they had a quest chain centered around being superior to the Night Elves in terms of Arcane prowess?

EDIT: Quite frankly considering the races they currently have playable are rather lacking on interesting lore, I think it's flat out stupid to make anymore. Nigh elf players have been raging for more lore, tauren players would like some attention, draenei players have all but given up on getting loved, and let's not forget that we've not seen hardly anything from Gallywix, Genn Greymane, or Aysa and Ji past their respective racial starting zones.


I agree.
Edited by Grimtale on 1/11/2013 10:25 AM PST
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100 Undead Warlock
7010
Oh come on. Lor'themar was about ready to call it quits on the Horde and renegotiate with the Alliance just because Garrosh wasn't treating them as well as he thought they should have been treated. The only thing that kept them around is because Dalaran became something they hated more and were willing to put up with it in order to get back at those who they felt wronged them.

Well, Garrosh is an evil tyrant, and even Sylvanas made Lor'themar nervous when she tried bossing his people around. Lor'themar presumably saw nothing to gain from staying in the Horde if Garrosh was going to run it into the ground, and that's a line of thought that the trolls and tauren may have followed as well, if they weren't in dangerous proximity with the orcs already. Lor'themar's no different from Vol'jin or Baine here.

01/11/2013 10:24 AMPosted by Grimtale
Er, no, Blood Elves are pretty narcissistic. How can they not be when they had a quest chain centered around being superior to the Night Elves in terms of Arcane prowess?

Not really the same thing; that's the case of an age-old rivalry as fierce on one side as it is on the other. You may as well call humans narcissistic for trying to defeat orcs.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
01/11/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Nuriele
You may as well call humans narcissistic for trying to defeat orcs.


*glares*

Well I wouldn't deny that some narcissism could be rather common in Orc/Human rivalries.

But no, Blood Elves are quite vain. They even have jokes centered around their vanity.
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82 Night Elf Hunter
1360
No thanks on more time travel for me unless it's a instance.

As you know, as it stands both Factions already have Elves and
The Undead almost wiped out the High-elves, which led to the Bood-elves in the first place..

Why we have as many High-elves currently is mind-boggling to me but I really don't think their numbers could support a player Race
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100 Undead Warlock
7010
01/11/2013 10:43 AMPosted by Grimtale
But no, Blood Elves are quite vain. They even have jokes centered around their vanity.

"Vain" and "narcissistic" are pretty far away, almost as far as "angry" and "murderous." Vanity is generally just a personal foible, narcissism is an outright personality disorder.
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95 Goblin Mage
9680
01/11/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Nuriele
Well, Garrosh is an evil tyrant, and even Sylvanas made Lor'themar nervous when she tried bossing his people around. Lor'themar presumably saw nothing to gain from staying in the Horde if Garrosh was going to run it into the ground, and that's a line of thought that the trolls and tauren may have followed as well, if they weren't in dangerous proximity with the orcs already. Lor'themar's no different from Vol'jin or Baine here.

Vol'jin did consider it, until Thrall talked him out of it. Since then Vol'jin had a perfect opportunity to leave the Horde and join the Zandalar and he chose Horde instead. It isn't just about "dangerous proximity". Trolls and tauren both have it way worse than blood elves in terms of Garrosh's tyranny but they stick around because Horde means something to them.

Blood elves have no such sense of loyalty except to themselves. If they did they would have stuck on with the Alliance even after dwarf spies and night elf saboteurs.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
01/11/2013 10:47 AMPosted by Nuriele
narcissism is an outright personality disorder.


Yes and no.

Narcissism is related to personality disorder, but it can also just be a personality trait that a person has.

And pretty much every race has their own personality traits. Blood Elves have it in the form of narcissism. I'm not sure why that's a bad thing because others happen to find it to be quite a badass trait to have.

Blood elves have no such sense of loyalty except to themselves. If they did they would have stuck on with the Alliance even after dwarf spies and night elf saboteurs.


True.

It's probably also why I haven't been as much of a fan of Blood Elves returning to the Alliance. They seem very finicky.
Edited by Grimtale on 1/11/2013 10:52 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
01/11/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Jetzeppelin
I never said humans weren't unique.


In a roundabout way, you absolutely said they weren't unique. I'll even use your own words:

01/11/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Fyersing
blood elves have a degree of their own culture

Can the same be said about humans? Not really.


This implies that humans have little or no "degree of their own culture", which is backwards way of saying they're utterly bland.

01/11/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Jetzeppelin
What I AM saying is that high elves are not unique at all. There's nothing that I can see about them that states "this is what makes a high elf" other than blue eyes, white skin, and long ears.


They have been humbled, whereas the Blood Elves haven't.
They have remained tempered, whereas the Blood Elves haven't.
They continue to uphold an ancient morality whereas the Blood Elves don't.
They foster friendships and accrue loyalty, whereas the Blood Elves begrudge alliances and avoid commitment.

This all without even having to delve into any lore whatsoever, just going off what the casual player can view IN-GAME while perusing through Outland or Northrend.

01/11/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Jetzeppelin
Gnomes, dwarves, goblins, trolls, and even worgen at least have things that sets them apart from all the rest. Your argument is invalid.


It's only invalid if you refuse to see differentiating facts as facts.

I could tell you that the Atlantic Ocean and the Pacific Ocean are different due to composition of elements and you, with your mindset, would posit that they were not different at all because they're both blue. At best, that makes your opinion childish.

Considering you just failed at reading comprehension you really have nothing to do but insert your foot in your mouth and suck on it for a while.


I think it would be more apt to say you've failed at recollection of your own wordings.
Edited by Fyersing on 1/11/2013 11:00 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
14480
Game wise, having High Elves on the Alliance as a playable race would just make putting the Blood Elves in the Horde back in TBC pointless. Why play a Blood Elf when you can play a High Elf on the Alliance? They look exactly the same except for eye colour.

You play a Blood Elf, you get to play in Quel'Thalas. You play a High Elf, you can play on the Alliance, with no unique city, no unique anything, you just get to be a blue eyed Blood Elf.

Quite honestly, Blizzard should have handled Blood Elves and High Elves differently. Blood Elves and the Alliance should have made amends, Blood Elves join the Alliance, then you can have the feuding and internal Blood/High Elf affairs in Quel'Thalas for lore.

It would have put the Horde in a more Awkward situation too... Well, not really the Horde. Just the Forsaken. Blood Elves should have gone Alliance in TBC, with Ogres for Horde, and Draenei introduced later on, or Blood Elves/Draenei as Alliance, Ogres and Goblins for Horde.
Edited by Lorelaî on 1/11/2013 11:08 AM PST
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