PvP Retribution Paladin ideas

90 Human Paladin
13220
Hello everyone, this evening I would like to share my ideas as to making retribution more viable in arena / RBG. Currently, it is a disadvantage to be taking a Ret into RBGs over any other class, simply put. Even if the said player has perfect play, there will only yield benefit by subbing the Ret out with any other class/spec.

I need not go into detail about how Rets are in contrast to other melee in arena, their representation is awful due to how much more powerful the other classes are. Currently in PvE they are also the bottom feeders of Melee, and that's sad considering Melee are almost always under casters.

This post is not about how bad Ret is, but how to make subtle changes to increase representation.

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The first change is adding a "Stun Removal" to unbreakable spirit. As of now every Ret in the universe stepping foot into any sort of PvP will be taking clemency. With the 5.1 10% reduction to hand of purity, it will surely see some light against DoT teams however the other 80% of the time Clemency will be a dominant talent.

If freedom were to remove stuns like it did in WotLK, It would not only make the talent more popular versus certain comps but it would also allow Rets defenses to be buffed passively via how the talent currently works. Many classes much much stronger than Rets have the ability to get our of stuns (I'm starring at you, Hunters!) so I believe this to be a great idea.

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The second change would be to buff PvP power to our heals. I'm aware that in 5.1, 25% of PvP power will affect heals. That is a barely noticeable change, however it's a start. Currently it is more suitable to spend holy power on a Templar's Verdict rather than a WoG, even with the glyph. Even popping Holy Avenger and switching to Seal of Insight, the current healing WoG does is simply not enough in Arena. What would be bad is buffing the direct healing to a point that Rets can keep their team alive forever, nobody wants that. Perhaps a way to solve this is allowing WoG to do a tremendous amount of healing but on a cooldown.

This is the current ret 4 set:
Gain a charge of holy power when taking Direct Damage every 8 seconds.

This, is garbage and could be replaced with something like:
Word of Glory heals for 100% more and always is guaranteed a crit once every 15 seconds

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I think also making Divine Purpose baseline would improve things aswell as making Rets more competitive in PvE also however I see no way of doing that without having to rebalance the other specs
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90 Human Paladin
10345
You don't have problems with our burst? I mean fine guardian is 5 min, but then wrath 3 min and holy avenger another 2? ... If you don't kill something with your initial burst you are more than likely dead.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6815
The 4 set is useless, and the dmg without the 3 min CD is also useless. Compared to other melee rets just Don't have enough pow for anything right now. I have played a ret from wrath up and i Do not like the new direction for ret paladins. They don't have enough support utility to make them good enough to play support dps in arena. And there defensive is based on self healing which is a massive tradeoff for dmg... because the ret pally will always get trained. I Think the class needs a rework for more of a constant dmg and viable support healing.
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90 Human Paladin
10345
Yea is not like we are locks or warriors that just sit back keep hitting and heal up. Sometimes I see myself using my burst to stay alive.
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90 Human Paladin
13220
I have played Ret since Wrath also, I am also a S8 and S9 Gladiator, 2800+.

I can say Rets burst is fine, it isn't the highest in the game however I do put some regard into the sustained damage in my post. Ret has amazing support to compensate for their non existent peels and the buff to freedom with unbreakable spirit would fix that.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6155
you must be joking lol. freedom removing stuns? wog healing for 200% and 100% crit chance/15s? scrap all those other proposed changes and maybe make DP baseline and ret will be better. it's not meant to be a mongoloid damage class like warriors it's a support class. maybe you should reroll.

sounds like you just want rets to be op again like they were in wrath.
Edited by Basicts on 1/14/2013 6:19 PM PST
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91 Human Mage
9645
how does giving them a use for wog make it a mongoloid damage class
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90 Tauren Death Knight
6265
No. No. No. No. No. No. Ret isnt the best, but definitely not the worst. It is above rogue, monk and enhance in terms of representation. We DO NOT want wog heals to what they were. Please get rid that out of your head right now.

"Word of Glory heals for 100% more and always is guaranteed a crit once every 15 seconds"

Are you on something? You're suggesting to buff wog by 300 percent, as if ret off heals arent good enough. I consistently see rets play defensive in arena and end with more healing done than damage, and their damage is anything but laughable. Also removing stuns on that low of a cd is op and shouldnt have been suggested either. BW is a 1 min cd, icebound a 3 minute. You have bubble and bop to get rid of stuns, that is enough.

Once warriors and ferals are toned down in 5.2 rets will be balanced. They dont need buffing, they are just outshined by those 2 melee.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6155
01/14/2013 06:21 PMPosted by Burnthesky
how does giving them a use for wog make it a mongoloid damage class

it doesn't. but the op's post was centered around getting more sustained damage. what i put about wog in my post was just pointing out that OP heals isnt the solution. hence why i agreed with DP being baseline like it was in cata so that more frequent heals/better support is possible without being op.
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90 Human Paladin
10345
01/14/2013 06:21 PMPosted by Emfrun
You have bubble and bop to get rid of stuns, that is enough.


Cant bubble and bop within 1 min of eachother
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90 Human Paladin
13220
The 4 set i suggested would be less than a 100k heal at most, and Ret representation is under rogue and DK and if there weren't a few renown Rets partnering up with top tier players it would be the same as monk. Constructed feedback would be appreciated, its not like Ret can get any worse. I don't even want them on par with warriors just an option viable for RBGs or semi competitive arena without being forced to play holy
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90 Tauren Death Knight
6265
01/14/2013 06:27 PMPosted by Gamepver
You have bubble and bop to get rid of stuns, that is enough.


Cant bubble and bop within 1 min of eachother


So what, fact of the matter is you have 2 extra ways to get rid of stuns which is more than most classes can say.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6155
You have bubble and bop to get rid of stuns, that is enough.


Cant bubble and bop within 1 min of eachother

you also have a trinket lol. explain why you need 3 ways to break stuns(4 if you go clemency). you think being able to break stuns more than twice in 2 minutes is acceptable? lol. not to mention you can break another in 60 sec after forbearance is gone, and again after that if you spec into it then when thats done your trinket is up again. AND you can bop your partners out of them. get outta here
Edited by Basicts on 1/14/2013 6:34 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
13220
01/14/2013 06:32 PMPosted by Basicts


Cant bubble and bop within 1 min of eachother

you also have a trinket lol. explain why you need 3 ways to break stuns(4 if you go clemency). you think being able to break stuns more than twice in 2 minutes is acceptable? lol. not to mention you can break another in 60 sec after forbearance is gone, and again after that if you spec into it then when thats done your trinket is up again. AND you can bop your partners out of them. get outta here


It's pretty obvious you don't understand paladin mechanics or even arena what-so-ever with that statement so how about coming up with some constructive criticism instead of thoughtless biased opinion
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100 Human Priest
14555
01/14/2013 06:06 PMPosted by Gamepver
Yea is not like we are locks or warriors that just sit back keep hitting and heal up. Sometimes I see myself using my burst to stay alive.
warlocks have horrible self-healing outside of a 2 min cd
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71 Blood Elf Rogue
6280
Interesting ideas, but I really think they need to rework the entire spec.
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90 Undead Priest
6600
This, is garbage and could be replaced with something like:
Word of Glory heals for 100% more and always is guaranteed a crit once every 15 seconds


I hope you just pitched this ridiculously on purpose just so you could suggest something a little more reasonable causing more people to agree with it, but somehow I think that's not a likely possibility.
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100 Human Paladin
6360
avengelyne is my hope
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