Blizz You Are Ruining The Uniqueness of Disc

90 Human Priest
11345
Hey now, that's probably slightly more than you could do as disc last expansion without any +heal buffs. Pretty impressive feat IMO.
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90 Night Elf Priest
11840
01/17/2013 12:46 PMPosted by Zamboozle
Excellent choice of fight to use as an example.


Well I only have 2 logs one of elegon and one of spirit kings. We were 3 healing spirit kings as it was an alt run and we were mostly dicking around.

But here is a much better view of how inept I actually am:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k77kxm5rzi6vevtn/sum/healingDone/?s=6680&e=7028

I'm curious, did you stop to consider the healing buff as well as the damage buff you are getting during the Elegon encounter?

Also, that's really not incredible HPS.


I'm doing 52k hps(e) with an ilvl of 465. Compared with against healers in good gear of course it would be crap. My point was more that I have no idea what I'm doing healing on a priest. Was mostly just spamming smite and SS when I remembered it. If you take my level of knowledge of priest healing and relay the same level towards any other healer class, healing/dmg buffs won't even matter. Their lack of effective healing would wipe the raid. Currently on a disc priest you can accidentally outheal your other healers.
Edited by Emaelii on 1/17/2013 2:58 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
17065
01/17/2013 02:38 PMPosted by Emaelii
'm doing 52k hps(e) with an ilvl of 465. Compared with against healers in good gear of course it would be crap. My point was more that I have no idea what I'm doing healing on a priest. Was mostly just spamming smite and SS when I remembered it.


So you are spamming that one spell that due to the fight mechanic, is severely overbuffed.

Atonement has always been severely skewed when there are damage modifiers, this is not new, see: Cataclysm. To use it as an example of how OP discs are is foolish. You're not even pointing the finger at the 'real' culprit and just hopping onto the bandwagon.

But, I will give you credit. You have at least proven how clueless you are. :3
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90 Night Elf Priest
11840
You're not even pointing the finger at the 'real' culprit and just hopping onto the bandwagon.

But, I will give you credit. You have at least proven how clueless you are. :3


Cheeky. Very nice. However, I'm not pointing a finger anywhere and I'm certainly not jumping onto any bandwagons. No one likes to admit they are OP because everyone likes to be OP. I'm simply stating that, if you can take a straight up beginner priest with no clue what they are doing and have them out heal solid experienced better geared healers, regardless of which spell they heal with, then there is something wrong with the balance.

My numbers may not look incredible to a disc priest but if you put those same numbers on any other healer class with my gear lvl and ppl would laud me as a remarkable healer. I can't imagine what my numbers would have looked like if I had been playing correctly and utilizing SS to its full ability as it was already doing 15% of my healing and I wasn't even using it half the time. Blizzard recognized this and they set out to tone down an overpowered ability while trying to remain true to the atonement play style of the class. Toning down SS isn't going to buckle the class. I believe on Spirit Kings I only used it once, maybe twice, (I'm not exactly sure how it WoL records it) and I still did just fine.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/17/2013 03:34 PMPosted by Emaelii
My numbers may not look incredible to a disc priest but if you put those same numbers on any other healer class with my gear lvl and ppl would laud me as a remarkable healer.


Not on that fight, no.
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90 Human Priest
17065
And I'm saying both your examples are downright horrible and your burning need to say "look I'm a scrub and still I do this good, therefore discs are OP" says absolutely nothing but "this guy is just out to cry nerf."

You cry about SS being OP. Yet on looking at both your logs which you claim you were clueless and was 'just spamming smite and SS':

First as an absorb class any crit/ss you do automatically soaks up inc damage which by itself already skew numbers, but hey since you basically saying I DO THIS WELL ON METERS LOOK LOOK LOOK THUS OP let's have a look at that.

Your top heal for Elegon is atonement which is grossly skewed due to the damage mechanic. Notice how your healing spikes up at the end where the damage buff rolls in. So since you were already 'cluelessly spamming' smite, of course it's going to do 'a lot'. That proves nothing but 'Elegon is a smite fight'.

You're not top for Spirit kings. And spirit shell isn't even on your top 3 for Spirit Kings. Instead it's DA and atonement which are, once again, optimal for the fight first guy dies. Between three, THREE, healers for 10 NORMAL. The damage is minimal and any cheap, 'smart spike' heal is going to win out over a hot class that has no relative pike and a class that requires the raid to be sorta close to chain heal, also no relatively quick and cheap spike.

So no, you're not really proving anything. We already know disc is OP but what you are linking and what you are saying has nothing to do what the disc issues wrt being OP is. So yes, to those who understand disc you are basically coming off as hopping onto a bandwagon, linking horrible examples, and going "DISC IS OP, NERF."

/hot chocolate is cold
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90 Human Priest
8745
I cannot be understanding this correctly, can someone clarify? It seems like the DA is being completely removed, not just mastery scaling. So if I'm reading this right...

I'm getting about 16k aegis on a 24k heal..

That's 40k effective healing, so 40% was the DA bubble..

So this was basically a 40% nerf to our only AoE heal?
Not only that, but it removed any sort of utility/skill in pre-shielding people....
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90 Human Priest
13020
01/15/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Flintte
But the nerfs to SS and DA are totally called for. Mastery will still be a strong stat, since it still buffs Divine Aegis and PW:S


I'm sorry....WHERE does mastery EVER buff DA?...it doesnt...ever.

DA will ONLY show its face after a crit. And it will ALWAYS be for 50% of the crit, no matter if you have 10% mastery, or 70% mastery. It will ALWAYS shield for exactly 50% of the crit. The ONLY place you will see mastery, is in PW:S. Sounds super fun!
Edited by Pradaxa on 1/17/2013 9:21 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/17/2013 09:20 PMPosted by Pradaxa
But the nerfs to SS and DA are totally called for. Mastery will still be a strong stat, since it still buffs Divine Aegis and PW:S


I'm sorry....WHERE does mastery EVER buff DA?...it doesnt...ever.

DA will ONLY show its face after a crit. And it will ALWAYS be for 50% of the crit, no matter if you have 10% mastery, or 70% mastery. It will ALWAYS shield for exactly 50% of the crit. The ONLY place you will see mastery, is in PW:S. Sounds super fun!


You are mistaken about this. The base amount of the DA is the 50% of whatever heal crit. However, that base amount absolutely is modified by Mastery at the moment. Mastery also appears to be affecting the DA portion of the Spirit Shell calculations, so it is still indirectly affecting Spirit Shell.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13490
I'm sorry....WHERE does mastery EVER buff DA?...it doesnt...ever.

DA will ONLY show its face after a crit. And it will ALWAYS be for 50% of the crit, no matter if you have 10% mastery, or 70% mastery. It will ALWAYS shield for exactly 50% of the crit. The ONLY place you will see mastery, is in PW:S. Sounds super fun!


I believe you mean, "DA will only show its face after a crit, unless you're casting PoH."

That said:

PoH: 30371 (per person)
Expected DA if Mastery played no role: ~15185
Actual DA: 20710

Greater Heal crit: 160027
Expected DA: ~80014
Actual DA: 109124

This is easily tested in game. Why do people seem to never actually test their argument before making it?
Edited by Elethia on 1/17/2013 9:40 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14795

I believe you mean, "DA will only show its face after a crit, unless you're casting PoH."



This is easily tested in game. Why do people seem to never actually test their argument before making it?


I find the irony hilarious. You claim people should test their arguments yet you are horribly wrong here.

DA only shows up on crits now, even when casting PoH. First Mastery didn't work on Spirit Shell and now it only works a fraction of the time on PoH. Disc AOE, Regen and Mastery are all massively nerfed by a crippling amount.
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90 Gnome Priest
12440
I find the irony hilarious. You claim people should test their arguments yet you are horribly wrong here.

DA only shows up on crits now, even when casting PoH. First Mastery didn't work on Spirit Shell and now it only works a fraction of the time on PoH. Disc AOE, Regen and Mastery are all massively nerfed by a crippling amount.

That's not the same as what they said though. 'Mastery doesn't buff DA' is not the same as 'DA only procs from crits'. The former is blatantly false, since Mastery will still increase DA.
Edited by Skootalloo on 1/17/2013 11:19 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
14080
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4379arbqk0btlplz/sum/healingDone/?s=2081&e=2472#Meadow

That is probably why it's getting nerfed. As for the other changes, I don't know what they are doing. I'll probably get on the PTR at some point. One thing I always wanted was for PoH to nail everyone in the group despite who you're casting it on. I don't like arranging groups into melees and ranged just so I can get the most use from my PoH spell. I'm guessing I'll never get that though.

As for PWS, I'll probably use it for more than rapture now.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17840
Or Priest T10.

I absolutely hate Disc Priests right now and actually preffered PW:S spam to PoH spam... the problem is, Blizz thinks the fix is a numbers tweak rather than the huge mechanical issue of THE CLASS HAS NO OTHER AOE HEALS* that aren't on long cooldown.


If you think about it, it's kind of like Druids and Rejuv. Every expac, the Devs make some statement about how they don't want Druids relying on Rejuv so much. And every expac, they fail to provide Druids with ANY OTHER TOOL TO USE and thus Druids rely on Rejuv. They hem and haw, and finally buff the damn spell. Then at the end of the expac, it's back to, "We don't want Druids relying so much on Rejuv."

It's seriously the same thing. "We don't want Disc relying so much on PoH." Yep. Because they've given us SO many alternatives.

It's kind of amusing. It's a problem of their own making, but they never seem to get around to providing us with a viable alternative.


Yep like right now we can't use it too much as we'd go OOM, even with 2 piece.

However next XP it'll be cheaper by 9%(so basically we keep our 2 set) + with more spirit on new gear it should work again. And on TOP of this, they making it's overhealing done work with mushrooms and giving it a healing bonus in the new tier. WTB LOGIC? Oh well.
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90 Night Elf Priest
11840
01/17/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Zamboozle
And I'm saying both your examples are downright horrible and your burning need to say "look I'm a scrub and still I do this good, therefore discs are OP" says absolutely nothing but "this guy is just out to cry nerf."


I'm in no way calling myself a scrub, merely saying I do not know how to heal on a priest as this is a very neglected alt.
I don't need to call nerf. Better priests than me have proven to Blizzard already that the class is distinctly OP atm.

Let me remind you what I said in my last post.
I'm simply stating that, if you can take a straight up beginner priest with no clue what they are doing and have them out heal solid experienced better geared healers, regardless of which spell they heal with, then there is something wrong with the balance.


01/17/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Zamboozle
And I'm saying both your examples are downright horrible

I'm very sorry Mr. Zamboozle for not having done ANY other normal raid bosses this tier so that I could offer you better examples. Though I really wish RL had WoL Will despite the fact that I actually stopped smiting at points so that our shaman could beat me because I felt sad for him. Poor shamans need a buff.

I digress. So Here is my wagon for you- With or without the nerfs to SS, Disc is still in a very strong place right now. So I feel no sympathy for those crying about a nerf that they should have been expecting anyways. Even without SS you are still in a good spot. And that is what my posts were about -- still doing well without maximizing on SS, not while maximizing SS.

You know what I said when they nerfed my class? Yup I saw that coming, because I knew it was OP. But it sure was fun while it lasted. Why does everyone feel the need to complain? You know you are OP, you knew the nerf is coming. And every Monk, Shaman, Druid out there is cheering on the inside.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
If you can shield all of the incoming damage then the other healers get zero heals. It's the nature of a shield.Explain to me how you would have a shield that allowed other healers to heal damage that was never taken. (Basically so they can feel all rosy about their meters.)


01/18/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Gillinus
What an ignorant response.
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90 Worgen Priest
9630
Shamans need buffing? News to me.

Though I really wish RL had WoL Will despite the fact that I actually stopped smiting at points so that our shaman could beat me because I felt sad for him. Poor shamans need a buff.


o_O

There are no words.
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90 Human Priest
17065
01/18/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Sadiemay
If you can shield all of the incoming damage then the other healers get zero heals. It's the nature of a shield.Explain to me how you would have a shield that allowed other healers to heal damage that was never taken. (Basically so they can feel all rosy about their meters.)


01/18/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Gillinus
What an ignorant response.


I won't say the individual is ignorant, but more like clueless but trying to make a point with evidence that does nothing but scream "I have no idea how to prove it but here is whatever I have I hope it proves a point".

Unfortunately for those that can read the situation, they don't.

It doesn't matter how geared her two buddies are and how poorly geared SHE is. Fact of the matter is with the damage is pathetic and the rest of her raid is 'geared', her DA is going to soak everything up and leave sloppy seconds for her two 'super geared and amazing healer buddies' (of which according to above posts they aren't amazing either). So meters are askew and she being meter-centric posts it and goes 'LOOK HOW OP A DISC IS' without actually giving the matter any thought.

a) Normal 10 MSV has pathetic damage, and its an alt run, so chances are the 10 people running it, dicking around on alts eat the place for breakfast on mains and can avoid/do mechanics properly - aka less healing for the three healers to fight over. It's not progression and nobody cares/were playing seriously.

b) She linked logs where she happened to spam the spells that were overbuffed/optimal for the fights. Any idiot can walk into Elegon, spam smite and 'win at meters'. It's a mechanic thing. It isn't new. Trying to use that and say "I am clueless yet I do this good thus class is OP" is basically saying "I brought a gun to a knife fight, cluelessly sprayed it around and somehow I won but I'm no sharpshooter, thus my team is OP."

c) Absorbs eat damage before raw healers can get to them. It doesn't matter if it's a green geared priest vs a legendary druid. If the priest's 900hp absorb bubble takes in 900hp and leaves 100hp in a 1k hit, the meters are still going to show badpriest > legendary druid. -_- So trying to use meters, METERS, METERS?! In a GUILD ALT run whose mains have cleared the place months ago, THREE healing, in 10 MSV normal where folks knew the fight and were just LOLing through...and then trying to say "disc is OP".

Sigh. Probably would've been better if it wasn't posted to 'help the argument' at all. That's hardly better than somebody posting LFR meters and using it as evidence against class Y.
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/18/2013 9:19 AM PST
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