It's time for a new AoE healing tool for Disc

100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
01/18/2013 07:34 AMPosted by Fluffychoo
What are your thoughts on the binding heal glyph? Useful for pve or useless? I'm excited for it because I personally use BH a lot when sh*t hits the fan.

Likely to be excellent for Holy. I foresee many Serendipity rotations in your future.

For Disc...it's got two problems. One is that it doesn't have the synergy present in Holy, and the other is that it's a fairly large, unevenly distributed, pure heal. Which means that at least three people, including the disc priest, have to be at fairly low health, but the rest of the raid has to be high enough that PoH isn't a better option, and the potential danger to those three people has to be high enough that Atonement + letting the other healers work just won't do the trick. That's a hell of a set of preconditions.

It's possible that there's some serious semi-random damage in the next tier that makes it worthwhile, but we'll have to see.
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90 Human Priest
17065
01/18/2013 07:55 AMPosted by Kaels
Maybe t9, but I think t9 was more a case of "we'll take anyone who's willing to walk into this godforsaken pit."


Buahahahahahaha

Disc after the revamp in Wrath was viable, but they were in the strange spot where "You will want one, and only one, in every raid, unless it's heroic LK when you'll want 2 just in case". And holy stood its own during that era, just 'cuz absorbs'. Two ends up stepping on each other toes and effectively gimps the raid in return, but at the same time a raid without a disc was prolly worse than a raid with two discs.

Holy stood their own during that phase and is still very strong D;

To Flinette:

I actually like the Shield Burst idea. But while on paper it sounds interesting and new...the practical implementation of it doesn't feel right. Numbers aside (if it goes off of damage remaining it would be lower than a renew tick per player healed), look at the situations where you'd be actually using it:

First you can't have that thing without CD or it'd just be stupidly OP regarding of healing numbers. So you need to impose a CD to prevent spam popping.

Now assuming you'll use this for random AE situations where POH can't cover, there is a high chance that RNG will screw you over and you'll never get a full pop. Which is sort of a poor design. Since you can't have this thing without a CD, if you mess it up, got a 10% pop instead of a full one you are banking for, you just basically dumped mana down a drain and lost a gamble. This is probably worse than DA going off crit and the disc banking on said crit to work.

So it needs to be more stable, relies on something that is RNG proof (I push button and bars go up as expected), and controllable by the healer.

/points back to drawing board
Edited by Zamboozle on 1/18/2013 8:17 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/18/2013 08:16 AMPosted by Zamboozle
So it needs to be more stable, relies on something that is RNG proof (I push button and bars go up as expected), and controllable by the healer.


*cough* Divine Hymn *cough*
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90 Human Priest
17065
01/18/2013 08:42 AMPosted by Taymage
So it needs to be more stable, relies on something that is RNG proof (I push button and bars go up as expected), and controllable by the healer.


*cough* Divine Hymn *cough*


wtb :< I'll even settle for the super long version.
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01/18/2013 08:42 AMPosted by Taymage
So it needs to be more stable, relies on something that is RNG proof (I push button and bars go up as expected), and controllable by the healer.


*cough* Divine Hymn *cough*


I dunno, the problem with Divine Hymn being available to both specs is that Disc would have DH AND Power Word: Barrier. We saw throughout Cataclysm that Disc was preferred for raids because PW:B was a strong AoE cooldown that Holy didn't have. Things improved when Holy got the new talent that buffed Divine Hymn, but giving both cooldowns to Disc while Holy only has one doesn't seem like a great idea. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad now though since Holy can put out actual AoE heals better than Disc (who mainly focuses on absorbs).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Don't forget that Disc also has Spirit Shell, which in its own way is far superior to Divine Hymn, given that you can use it so much more often.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
01/18/2013 08:16 AMPosted by Zamboozle
Disc after the revamp in Wrath was viable, but they were in the strange spot where "You will want one, and only one, in every raid, unless it's heroic LK when you'll want 2 just in case". And holy stood its own during that era, just 'cuz absorbs'. Two ends up stepping on each other toes and effectively gimps the raid in return, but at the same time a raid without a disc was prolly worse than a raid with two discs.


If you brought two Wrath disc priests, you were "gimping yourself" only in the sense that one of the disc priests is going to be watching the other one solo heal the encounter. Wrath disc priest is hands down the most overpowered healing spec that has ever existed. You could solo heal heroic Lich King for god's sake!
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Mahourai
If you brought two Wrath disc priests, you were "gimping yourself" only in the sense that one of the disc priests is going to be watching the other one solo heal the encounter. Wrath disc priest is hands down the most overpowered healing spec that has ever existed. You could solo heal heroic Lich King for god's sake!


You absolutely could not. You are either mis-remembering the encounter, or are um... o_O

The only thing you brought the Disc Priest for was to bubble away Infest. Without the bubbles, it was close to unhealable.

Paragon brought 5 healers, including one Disc Priest, to their first H LK kill. They were underhealing the encounter, but could not make the enrage timer otherwise. Do you honestly think that they would have brought more than their Disc Priest if it was soloable? No.

Please don't resort to hyperbole.
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01/18/2013 01:47 PMPosted by Tiriél
If you brought two Wrath disc priests, you were "gimping yourself" only in the sense that one of the disc priests is going to be watching the other one solo heal the encounter. Wrath disc priest is hands down the most overpowered healing spec that has ever existed. You could solo heal heroic Lich King for god's sake!


You absolutely could not. You are either mis-remembering the encounter, or are um... o_O

The only thing you brought the Disc Priest for was to bubble away Infest. Without the bubbles, it was close to unhealable.

Paragon brought 5 healers, including one Disc Priest, to their first H LK kill. They were underhealing the encounter, but could not make the enrage timer otherwise. Do you honestly think that they would have brought more than their Disc Priest if it was soloable? No.

Please don't resort to hyperbole.


Yeah, Disc was VERY good at dealing with Infest, but that was basically all we did on the fight. We spent all of our time bubbling the raid and couldn't really heal anything else, it definitely isn't true that it was one-healable by Disc.

I had issues on that fight because our other Disc Priest would screw me over by bubbling a target I was going to bubble, messing up my flow (I know that sounds dumb, but when you're bubbling three groups before an Infest goes off and Weakened Soul pops up right as you try to bubble someone, it throws you off). I kept telling her to not use bubbles on anyone except the tanks but then she got all pissy and we argued >.>
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1 Blood Elf Priest
0
I'd hate to see Atonement changed to a 3 way heal. The heals are generally small enough that you want them focused on just one person who needs it the most. 3-way Atonement would suck when there is just one person needing healing, leading to more overheals. I normally never say no to a 3-way, but 3-way Atonement would definitely get thrown out of bed.

IMO, Atonement is an AOE spell in the sense that it's multi-targeted. There aren't many real Area of Effect spells - just single target and multitargetted with some that sorta step in both fields - like Penance Atonements and things like HOTs which can be layered to multi-target heal.

Holy in ICC was fine - just Disc brought something terribly unique and powerful in the form of shielding.

In terms of new AOE, I like some of the suggestions. I would add auto-DA proccing POM that when cast under Borrowed Time always bounces á la Holy Divine Insight.

I wouldn't mind seeing Penance getting 5-6 charges over its cast time rather than 3, making it a more powerful AOE. And wouldn't its animation be even more awesome!?!

Renew being buffed and turned into a fully absorbing stacking shield rather than a heal.

Lowering the cost and CD of the level 90 spells by 1/3 (CD at least) so they can be used more often.

I think the above changes would be easily handled than something brand new.

Whilst it will be a pain to lose auto proc DA from POH, ultimately, I think it will be a step in the right direction. I would have preferred them to shortened our crutch spell to perhaps 20-25% guaranteed DA until they had a new crutch in place, but c'est la vie.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/18/2013 01:24 PMPosted by Flintte
AND Power Word: Barrier.


hahaha. Yeah, well. I guess if we do some Dragon Soul runs that might be a problem . . .
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/18/2013 01:39 PMPosted by Tiriél
Don't forget that Disc also has Spirit Shell, which in its own way is far superior to Divine Hymn, given that you can use it so much more often.


Yes, but it is not an OH **** WE NEED HEALS thing. It is available every minute, but it requires setup, and an understanding of when damage is about to happen. I know all of the people that are freaking out are convinced Disc will be terrible, but that doesn't seem likely to me.

To me, the issue is that this nerf (no DA for PoH) might leave disc being unable to help catch up a raid that is down. PoH is pretty darn good, even without DA, but I'm worried about my raid groups when a slight misstep happens. I guess we'll see, but I can see it in my mind right now. I've seen struggles catching up, even with a PoH that procs 50% DAs. I honestly would be fine will *all* of these nerfs if Disc had an actual *healing* cooldown.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
01/18/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Taymage
To me, the issue is that this nerf (no DA for PoH) might leave disc being unable to help catch up a raid that is down. PoH is pretty darn good, even without DA, but I'm worried about my raid groups when a slight misstep happens. I guess we'll see, but I can see it in my mind right now. I've seen struggles catching up, even with a PoH that procs 50% DAs. I honestly would be fine will *all* of these nerfs if Disc had an actual *healing* cooldown.


What would be the point of other healers if Disc is able to prevent a big chunk of damage and also heal the raid up equally well? Between SS, PW:S post-5.2 and PW:B situationally, there's no reason Disc shouldn't be able to have the raid shielded before big spikes of damage.

Still, Disc does have access to certain CDs to help it top the raid up: AA/PoH, IF, its level 90 talents and Atonement/Penance in 5.2.
Edited by Ceddya on 1/18/2013 7:16 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
What would be the point of other healers if Disc is able to prevent a big chunk of damage and also heal the raid up equally well? Between SS, PW:S post-5.2 and PW:B situationally, there's no reason Disc shouldn't be able to have the raid shielded before big spikes of damage.

Still, Disc does have access to certain CDs to help it top the raid up: AA/PoH, IF, its level 90 talents and Atonement/Penance in 5.2.


I can only speak for myself, but in my healing comp, it's me and a Paladin. Paladins don't really have AOE tools to burst people back up effectively when they're low. This makes my job a lot harder. AA and IF I use in conjunction with SS, but you're right, I -might- have it up again when I need it. Sometimes.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
I can only speak for myself, but in my healing comp, it's me and a Paladin. Paladins don't really have AOE tools to burst people back up effectively when they're low. This makes my job a lot harder. AA and IF I use in conjunction with SS, but you're right, I -might- have it up again when I need it. Sometimes.


The thing is though, if you're using it for SS, it means that you should technically have successfully shielded the raid for even more, negating the need for such burst heals.
Edited by Ceddya on 1/18/2013 9:12 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 09:12 PMPosted by Ceddya
The thing is though, if you're using it for SS, it means that you should technically have successfully shielded the raid for even more, negating the need for such burst heals.


You know as well as I do that SS does not shield the party for everything in Heroic content, Ceddya. It can completely shut people out in normal content, but not so much in Heroic.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
You know as well as I do that SS does not shield the party for everything in Heroic content, Ceddya. It can completely shut people out in normal content, but not so much in Heroic.


I never said it did. But using your cooldowns during SS means that less damage actually goes out on the raid and you shouldn't need those healing CDs to top them back up.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/18/2013 09:36 PMPosted by Ceddya
I never said it did. But using your cooldowns during SS means that less damage actually goes out on the raid and you shouldn't need those healing CDs to top them back up.


Heh. Well, I suppose we'll see. ^_^
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
The thing is though, if you're using it for SS, it means that you should technically have successfully shielded the raid for even more, negating the need for such burst heals.


You know as well as I do that SS does not shield the party for everything in Heroic content, Ceddya. It can completely shut people out in normal content, but not so much in Heroic.


It doesn't even do that in normals necessarily. One mistake - just one, and the entire raid can be low. It happens to us *every* night we raid. Every night. If you have a disc priest as one of your two heals, you may end up gimped in situations like that imo. The rolling of DA, etc, helped paper over that a bit, but it might end up being a problem. I guess we'll see. Like you, one of my raid groups is a pally and a disc priest. The other at least is disc + a shaman, so there is a totem of divine hymn and ascendance for that group.

Edit: you know what? I realize that even a boomkin is better equipped to deal with this situation. Ours cast a nice chicken-tranq and it did wonders to stabilize us on one of our mistakes on Garalon tonight.
Edited by Taymage on 1/18/2013 10:15 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12745
I can only speak for myself, but in my healing comp, it's me and a Paladin. Paladins don't really have AOE tools to burst people back up effectively when they're low. This makes my job a lot harder. AA and IF I use in conjunction with SS, but you're right, I -might- have it up again when I need it. Sometimes.

That's a problem with your raid comp. Don't get me wrong, it's also a problem with my raid comp. In fact, it's really a problem with paladins more than anything.

"Paladins suck at AoE on a lot of fights" isn't really an argument for why Disc should remain OP.
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