Really, Repentance was the problem with Ret?

90 Draenei Paladin
17770
Repentance nerf is not hard on ret, maybe for us holy, but then again, not a lot of Hpally actually use repentance, some of them using fist...

So there for, is not really a nerf...
Edited by Firéfox on 1/10/2013 8:18 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
5770
01/09/2013 06:47 PMPosted by Lobster


You have a better chance of Winning the Million dollar lotto next week then seeing Ret buffs in patch 5.2.

Ahh okay, well I'm glad you can see in to the future. I guess that blue gem thing under your face is really a crystal ball. You wouldn't happen to have next week's lotto numbers by chance, would you? I mean since you can already see that far ahead.


Though I did try to perma ignore lobster one time (still haven't figured out how) but I have to agree with Lobs here. Hold tight. From what I gather GC and the team know Ret has some issues, as he didn't know how to give Rets more interactivity/sustained without sacrificing burst. At least they are giving thought to it. It would be to their own peril to ignore a base as big as the Ret group.

What bugs me is how they are indiscrimitately buffing based on pop balance. Locks were low, Wars were low....BUFF insanely. Nerf them cause numbers are through the roof. Rogues are low, Monks are low....BUFF THEM. Rets are HIGH ...so they must be ok.

I know this may be considered a conspiracy theory but look at the track record.

I wonder if the mage population is high? Anyone know? Has it always been low? I hate being a mage. Just not my play style.
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90 Human Paladin
7410
I like sweet pickles on my burgers. I KNOW RIGHT?
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90 Human Paladin
15050
Someones owed some money for this thread, who bet that the rep change would cause a qq nerf thread?
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90 Human Paladin
5770
01/10/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Paladinchaz
Someones owed some money for this thread, who bet that the rep change would cause a qq nerf thread?


Dude the any thread with Ret turns into QQ. It's like one of the constants in the universe. Like gravity.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5595
This wasn't for Ret, this was for Holy. HPallies have really, really good offensive CC pressure on healers. I'm new to Arena and pretty undergeared this late in the season, and run TSG, but it's pretty easy to force a trinket on the healer with my guys training a DPS and I'm just sitting there CC Chaining them. Then hard swap to healer.

From the impression I get from GC's Twitter, Repentance and Ret Paladins do not go hand in hand. He seems to find Repent and Holy as synonymous. I'm assuming that he, just like the rest of ya'll, think that the cast time is too prohibitive for use as a Ret, especially since it seems that Ret is pretty likely to be trained. So this is meant to be a slight nerf aimed directly @ Holy Paladins. He's stated recently that he thinks that's we're "probably a bit too strong".
Edited by Puzzlybox on 1/10/2013 9:17 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
5770
This wasn't for Ret, this was for Holy. HPallies have really, really good offensive CC pressure on healers. I'm new to Arena and pretty undergeared this late in the season, and run TSG, but it's pretty easy to force a trinket on the healer with my guys training a DPS and I'm just sitting there CC Chaining them. Then hard swap to healer.

From the impression I get from GC's Twitter, Repentance and Ret Paladins do not go hand in hand. He seems to find Repent and Holy as synonymous. I'm assuming that he, just like the rest of ya'll, think that the cast time is too prohibitive for use as a Ret, especially since it seems that Ret is pretty likely to be trained. So this is meant to be a slight nerf aimed directly @ Holy Paladins. He's stated recently that he thinks that's we're "probably a bit too strong".


It's too bad because a short CD repentance would be great for peels for us. However 2s to cast is too much channeling. Unless they had glyph like no Cast time but +15s cD.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5110
So, instead of creating a more visible "DONT HIT ME" animation so people wouldnt break it all the time (BGs, mostly), they add +15% of cast time?
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01/10/2013 09:29 AMPosted by Syros
they add +15% of cast time?


its more like 12%
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90 Human Paladin
8760
And NOW, Repentance is officialy Holy ONLY, since there's NO WAY a Ret can use that without sacrificing it's ENTIRE playstyle.

Ret is melee, so always running, and on the open. IF a Ret stop to cast whay will happen:

Ret lose the grip on the enemy, it goes out of range, that by itself is a HUGE loss of DPS, you suffer knockback from attacks so your casting time if you're under pressure will be 5 secs cast. If Ret get interrupted, IT'S DEAD. Can't bubble that is the only Def CD that do anything right now and if it's on CD, cast Rep is the same as /leave arena.

I can stay ALL DAY here proving that they just took Repentance from Ret and gave it to Holy as if Ret was OP and had a lot of CCs/Peels and Holy was underpowered and week, not wanted for PVP.

Blizz takes from the poor, gives to the rich. Only care and balance Holy for PVP, stall Rets, have been since Cata started - now Ret is WORSE than on Cata (that was already bad) and they still deny it, doesn't matter the facts, proofs, analysis and ideas that we make.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13205
The tears.

So many of them.

Not enough thermoses to collect them in.
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90 Human Paladin
8760
Link here 5 Ret with 2400+ rating on US or a Print Screen of someone puging Ret for RBGs/Arenas.

Even better, DROWN on VANGUARDS TEARS:

Here are some of my reasons for it:
Representation:
You cannot base everything off representation, one example is Feral Druids are one of the strongest specs in the game for PvP at the moment; but they are not over represented. There are roughly 2 above 2400 on Bloodlust; which is good but nothing that speaks for how strong they are. However, representation is still a good number to look at. There is currently only 1 Ret above 2400 in the entire US. The amount of Rets above 2200 is also extremely low; if you compare these numbers to Warriors and even Ferals (one of the less common classes played but really strong) it's absolutely horrible. I think representation is not the best indicator for balance, but Rets are actually a more "popular" played specialization. Who doesn't want to be one with the light? However despite being a popular played spec its representation at higher tier arenas is pretty bad.

Lack of Peels / Survivability:
Before healing nerfs I considered Rets to be pretty good (when PvP Power gave healing to the maximum). After 50% nerfs I considered Rets to be average; maybe slightly below average when you include every single spec in the game including Prots etc. After the complete nerf + 15% healing nerf, I would say Rets are one of the weaker specs in the game mainly cause they just can't survive anymore whether it's for themselves or for their teammates. Anyone that has been above 2000 would know that Death Knights currently are horrible. They are one of the weakest classes and specs in the game only above Monks and Healing Priests perhaps. Why is this when they do SOO much damage? They have no survival utility for their teammates, and hardly any for themselves either.

Death Knights have no Shockwave, no real peels. Rets are in the same boat with even less peels and less damage but they have some good Hands* support + off heals. The off heals were what kept Rets infinitely above Death Knights before 5.1. However, since the 5.1 came in after several 3-5minute cooldowns Rets cannot keep their teammates or themselves alive. Good players can easily abuse this mechanic; since Rets are not very threatening in terms of damage after guardian, and they are so easily kill-able / susceptible to have their teammates killed due to lack of peels / crappy off-heals.

Burst comparative to other classes:
Ret Burst isn't bad... but it's more or less on a 5minute cooldown. Our best burst in between that is On Use Trinket + Avenging Wrath + Holy Avenger + maybe procs burst. This burst isn't bad, but compared to other classes 2-3minutes burst it's just not really enough. I believe burst for Rets is more or less an issue to do with other classes being just too strong, such as Spriest being able to solo someone every 15minutes or Ferals insane burst that can chain damage after 100k crits.

Anyways once again this is based off my opinion / experience from repeated playing between 2300-2500. Opinions are more or less based from my POV as a ~2400 Ret and ~2500 Enhance.
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90 Human Paladin
10120
Rets take repentance?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7060
I switch between FoJ and Repentence depending on what I'm about to face in arena. Speak for yourselves when you say no one uses repentance.

A well timed repentance wins games.
Edited by Angelista on 1/18/2013 11:44 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
5785
I don't really understand that change. Blizzard must know that hardly any rets took repent because of the cast time and the fact that it put hoj on a 1 minute cd.

Now NO rets will take repent.

I thought the whole point of talents were that they shouldn't be mandatory and blizz was trying to balance them out, like they did with our t60. Seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Who cares about this "nerf," honestly. The only way to make Repentance good for Ret PvP is to drastically slow PvP down or to redesign the entire talent, a talent which works well for Holy PvP and all specs in PvE. This is the stupidest thing to complain about.
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90 Draenei Paladin
7290
OP:
I understand what you meant and I agree, ret is lousy now and needs more attention elsewhere than on something trivial like repentance.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19480
01/09/2013 06:47 PMPosted by Lobster


You have a better chance of Winning the Million dollar lotto next week then seeing Ret buffs in patch 5.2.

Ahh okay, well I'm glad you can see in to the future. I guess that blue gem thing under your face is really a crystal ball. You wouldn't happen to have next week's lotto numbers by chance, would you? I mean since you can already see that far ahead.


Good show, Lobster.

Granted I've PvP'd very little this expac, this nerf is nothing to worry about, just pray for any attention at all to ret.

PvE isn't that bad though, feel free to join us over there!
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