Removing Flying Mounts Part II

Original Post, topic limit reached: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7592201587?page=8#142

Please stop regressing the game. In spite of your firm belief that you feel flying mounts are detrimental to gameplay, I hate grounded areas with a passion, and rush to get content like this, such as the Tol Barad dailies, out of the way as soon as possible.

I really hope you keep the new quests simple and short if this is the case. Sprawling daily quests, such as Golden Lotus or Klaxxi, would be terrible if grounded.
94 Tauren Shaman
10650
Removing flying mounts would probably be the last straw for alot of ppl.

How is it detrimental to game play? Your idea of game play or how the actually person who is paying for the game wants to play?
Removing flying mounts would probably be the last straw for alot of ppl.

How is it detrimental to game play? Your idea of game play or how the actually person who is paying for the game wants to play?


Seeing as how I'm a person paying for the game, 'my' idea of detrimental and the person who is 'paying' for the game are one and the same. Not sure I completely understand your question.

As for 'why' it's detrimental, the devs like to tell us that it's more immersive to be on the ground, but I find the sweeping landscapes and vistas while flying to be MORE immersive than being stuck on the ground, seeing only a small portion of the game world, and having to run through 20 mobs, hoping none of them dismount me, to get to where I have to go.
Leave the poor horse alone!
100 Blood Elf Priest
12960
Where are the posts asking for flying mount removal in the area Blues??

PLEASE link to one. I never saw it. But you obviously listened to the people that posted it.

I need to contact all those people that you actually listened to and ask them (heh, PAY THEM) to post about removing CRZ.
90 Blood Elf Priest
4895
Wait, if you're against removing flying mounts, why did you revive the thread?
Personal opinions do not necessarily constitute a majority. For instance - I LIKE my ground mounts, and I like to USE them - I also like quest areas that require them! Wow!

I am also a fan of CRZ - who would have thought there was someone out there with those crazy opinions?!?
90 Gnome Mage
0
The worst part about leveling from 85 - 90 is that u can't fly... it doesnt make the game better it just slows u down.

I have seen they are making the new island in 5.2 a no fly zone... this will piss off more then please. It is massively annoying knowing what u need is on the other side of a long wall, rocky thing or w/e.

And just for the record Blizzard/WoW Dev team.... it's completely retarded to have a NO fly zone island... as flying is how u get there! (just as a def. thing if there is a port there, the port got there because some npc flew out there.)

Id lvl more toons if i could fly from lvl 1 - 90 in all zones!
Edited by Sparkler on 1/16/2013 7:32 AM PST
90 Draenei Shaman
11125
From Bashiok in that thread:

We pretty firmly believe the questing experience is just wholly better when you can't lift off and set down wherever you like, frog leaping from quest objective to quest objective.


Your right.

When I started playing this game, some 7 years ago, questing was fun and interesting. While I didn't like having to fly across the world four times to complete one quest, I did appreciate big, epic quest chains.

Today, questing is a painful, miserable chore. In fact, Cataclysm 80-85 and Pandaria 85-90 were the worst questing experiences to date.

Part of that is my fault. I treat it like a chore. I accept a bunch of quests at the hub, hop on my flying mount, jump from point to point using the marks on the map and turn them all in. The sooner this is finished, the better. Leveling 85-90 was just a long miserable quest grind. I was irritated that many of the initial quests were cinematics you can't cancel or stupid mini games involving vehicle bar buttons. They were time wasters. Watching a story from 3 or 4 different characters view was just awful.

Part of that is Blizzards fault. They've made questing almost absolutely linear to control your progression path. We don't have the freedom we did in Vanilla, Burning Crusade or even WotlK. I'm not exploring the world and questing for the good of the people - I'm just following a list of chores that Blizzard gave me. I'm treating it like chores because its designed like chores. Pandaria was less linear than Cataclysm, thats for sure.

So now we are in a position where if you remove flying mounts from questing, your just gonna irritate of people who are trying to do your list of chores.

Everyone has their own idea of fun. Personally for myself, getting X items and killing X mobs in each zone from every hub isn't fun. Mandatory requirements to complete a hub before moving onto another hub or zone isn't fun either. What happened to epic quest chains with rewards worth getting? And were Mara chain / ZG hammer / Seal of Ascension / Kara Attunement / Alcatraz key type quests SO horrible we'll never see them again?

Is there some blanket rule now that no quest in WoW may take more than 10 minutes? Maybe people complained about epic quests that took an evening to complete. Did they realize they'd get a chore list of 30 quests that take 5 minutes instead?

The Pandaria questing model makes it even worse. There are so many daily quests and rep grinds in the current model, people don't have the time, will or desire to level alts this expansion. Thats pretty bad. Adding in more time sinks and more nuisances to complete new chore lists (on top of our daily chores) AND pulling the flyer is just a jerk move

In summary

So long as the quests given are just another "chore list" handed to us by Blizzard, players are not going to be happy if you intentionally make it harder to complete those chores or add time delays keeping us from completeing your chores.

And just to say

WotlK was the best leveling I've experienced playing WoW. Several zone options. Hub and quest chain options. Good, solid dungeon quests and chains. Absolutely enchanting story and lore (I seriously waited years and years after WC3 to see Arthas as the LK again)
Edited by Vodkaparty on 1/16/2013 7:49 AM PST
As they said in the other thread, flying mounts will probably never "go away completely".

Personally, if they ever did it, I would quit, and I think they know that a large portion of their player base would rebel as well.

My biggest gripe is the 5.2 daily area not being flying accessible. I hate dailies, but I do them. It is like a chore, so I try to get them done as soon as possible. Not flying doing dailies just makes it a double chore.

Excuse me Blizzard, but I pay for this game to enjoy it, not as punishment!
94 Tauren Shaman
10650
01/16/2013 06:57 AMPosted by Oreooze
How is it detrimental to game play? Your idea of game play or how the actually person who is paying for the game wants to play?


Seeing as how I'm a person paying for the game, 'my' idea of detrimental and the person who is 'paying' for the game are one and the same. Not sure I completely understand your question.


Its like two ideas of detrimental, the person who it should matter to IE the person who is actually paying to play. And then the person it shouldn't matter cause he/she can change the game on a whim both lore and ingame play experience namely a Dev.

Like the person paying for the game should outweigh but its like the other way around or something.

01/16/2013 07:01 AMPosted by Barru
and having to run through 20 mobs, hoping none of them dismount me, to get to where I have to go.


Thats one reason I used to LOATHE tol borad dailies but you learn routes on the ground where the mobs won't aggro you.
100 Tauren Shaman
13310
Someone had started a part 2 thread earlier, but it has now fallen off. I'll just repost what I wrote there.

Late in the original thread, someone quoted a tweet conversation from Ghostcrawler.

He didn't say he hated them. This was the tweet in question:

@Ghostcrawler Looking back to pre-BC, would you make the decision to add flying mounts again if you had the choice?

@TrygvenSeim Personally, no, but they are pretty cool. Convenience is fun, but I don't like that they make the world so safe.


Ok, I get his point of view but riddle me this:

WHO made the world "so safe"?

In BC, if you strayed too close to an enemy base, you'd be shot down and destroyed by enemy flying guards. I remember having to give wide berths to all the alliance towns because I didn't want a random hammer dismounting me, making me fall to my death or into a group of enemy NPCs who could eat my face.

The developers took this away in Wrath. I can fly through elite blue dragons I'm supposedly at war with in Dragonblight and they don't even care. I can tree top fly over any alliance base and no one cares. Ditto Cataclysm and Mists.

The developers made the world "safe" by taking all of the risks out of flying and then building a world around risk-free flight. Sounds like he should be offering suggestions to his development team about adding an element of risk back to flying instead of simply designing new content and disabling flying outright.

I don't mind the lack of flying when an expansion is first released but there should always be a BOA license similar to the later addition to Wrath when someone hits max level. Sorry, but the quests are all linear these days. I see no reason to be FORCED to make my alts slog through the same slow grind from 85-90 once I have a character at 90 and have paid for Pandaria-level flying. With the amount of nodes added throughout the world, letting alts fly for a high BOA price isn't going to disrupt first-time levelers any more than the flying level 90s are.

The idea that forcing people on the ground makes more interaction in the world is pretty ridiculous, as well. On three 90s, I can count the number of people I ran into in zones like Wilds. It was heavy during the first month, now... not so much. Meanwhile, the 90s, despite dailies and this new "world" overwhelmingly sit in Orgrimmar/Stormwind, either Shrine, or Halfhill.

Oh and for people saying flight should be entirely removed? Not going to happen. Cataclysm was basically created specifically so flight could be added to Azeroth. Cataclysm zones are built around flight. And good luck leveling Archaeology on anything other than a new character if you remove flight.
Edited by Nydidolyn on 1/16/2013 7:45 AM PST
94 Tauren Shaman
10650
01/16/2013 07:39 AMPosted by Jaybur
Personally, if they ever did it, I would quit, and I think they know that a large portion of their player base would rebel as well.


In BC that was the biggest excitement. Getting the netherdrakes.
90 Human Paladin
6875
If they do remove Flying Mounts they should increase Ground speed by A lot, perhaps faster then 310% just to make up for the lost speed you get while flying.

Also they would have to add ways (teleports or bridges) so we can get to places that require Flight.

Also why would they want to remove it?

They Spent Countless hours (Money) converting Vanilla WoW to Flight lol
97 Gnome Mage
14480
Removing flying mounts would probably be the last straw for alot of ppl.

How is it detrimental to game play? Your idea of game play or how the actually person who is paying for the game wants to play?


Seeing as how I'm a person paying for the game, 'my' idea of detrimental and the person who is 'paying' for the game are one and the same. Not sure I completely understand your question.

As for 'why' it's detrimental, the devs like to tell us that it's more immersive to be on the ground, but I find the sweeping landscapes and vistas while flying to be MORE immersive than being stuck on the ground, seeing only a small portion of the game world, and having to run through 20 mobs, hoping none of them dismount me, to get to where I have to go.


exactly, and i got places to go and things to do and cant be bothered with some stupid slow arsed ground mount... gawd it is painful enough on my low levels
90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
Flying mounts definitely do kill the "feel" of questing if the zones aren't properly designed, but they work well if the zone IS properly designed.

Though, the only zones I've seen that really "nail" that design so far are Deepholme and to a lesser extent, Hyjal (props to Krazzworks in Twilight Highlands though).

But hey, if you want the feeling, ground mounts still exist.
Edited by Awkward on 1/16/2013 7:49 AM PST
94 Tauren Shaman
10650
01/16/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Nydidolyn
And good luck leveling Archaeology on anything other than a new character if you remove flight.


Yes, Arch would be beyond tedious and even more annoying. But I got to say I have noticed that in panda land the arch areas are closer together. Not that it makes me want to do arch any more.
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