"Remove flying mounts"middle ground solution?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11750
@Besh:

I didn't read all 4 pages of comments, so this may have been stated already. First, that is a creative and well-thought out idea that deserves proper consideration.

But it fails to address the issue. It sounds like this is a mechanism that would prevent people from using flying mounts like the taxi flypoints. For example, if I were out flying from digsite to digsite working on my archaeology, I need to fly from zone to zone for extended lengths of time, and unless it's in Pandaria, it's all over trivial content. This is the kind of thing that the mounts should be there to enable.

What Blizzard has stated they are against is people using the flying mounts to avoid danger in the world from NPCs and other players by flying over and out of range. The mounts can be used to cheese certain mechanics while farming herbs/ore as well. This is what they want to fix: certain short-duration uses, and unfortunately I can't see how your suggestion might address these.

If you were to suggest a limit, that limit might be better focused on the number of times one can mount per unit time forcing you to stay grounded and fight if you had used up your opportunities. I think ultimately such a limit would be hard to work into the game because it would just become a QoL issue people would complain about.

Blizzard's solution: rendering new zones unflyable seems to do a better job of addressing the problem by establishing the ground rules (pun intended =) from the beginning and designing around that. While it may seem like an inconvenience, they're thinking of where roads/high traffic areas should be, mob density, respawn rates, where mineral nodes/herbs should be, etc and keeping things reasonably enjoyable. I won't say they're always perfect, but I think they're aware of a lot of the potential unintended consequences of ground only rules and are working accordingly.
MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
Immersion is best served by a game world with internally consistent rules. A flying mount is one way of plotting a route around mobs you don't want to fight — that's not a detraction from immersion, it's exactly how we expect the investment in a flying mount to pay off.

Having the flying mount mysteriously stop working at certain times and places, on the other hand, disrupts immersion pretty terribly, shining a spotlight on inconsistencies in the game world's rules.

Immersion is not about being confronted with mobs and players. Immersion is about facilitating the willing suspension of disbelief, allowing you to feel like you're part of a believable world. In a world that already has flying mounts (the taxis), it already made sense that we could one day own them, given enough resources. It makes sense that we would use them for a tactical advantage. They aid immersion; they don't detract from it.
90 Pandaren Monk
2150
This whole thread is a waste of time. blizzard is not getting rid of flying.
90 Draenei Death Knight
8220
01/18/2013 09:58 AMPosted by Yandere
There's no point in reasoning with you. You still a) don't understand what compromise means and b) can't fathom that there are other reasons to restrict flying besides PvP.


What's immersion in a game is subjective to interpretation with each person playing the game. Me hopping on a birdie is part of the game and doesn't break immersion for me. It might not be for you, but it is for me.
100 Human Priest
14830
01/18/2013 10:00 AMPosted by Yandere
The player base by in large doesn't have self control. Again that's why games have restrictions in the first place. Consider the following: if Heroic Raid gear could be purchased from a vendor, who would raid?


And again, you are asking for removal of things others enjoy...and INSULT them in the process by labeling them with a lack of "self control"...ever hear of the psychological term projectance? Please do not label others with an issue you obviously feel you have.

Every word out of your mouth screams "I don't like the way others play this game. They play wrong. Bliz needs to put in a fix to make them play the game my way." That's very self-centered and not what Bliz had in mind. They wanted their game to be diverse so it could be enjoyed by as many people as possible. People have different wants and needs, and bliz serves those wants and needs. You want that to go away and make everyone play your way. No.
Edited by Adiathna on 1/18/2013 10:11 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
10690
01/18/2013 10:06 AMPosted by Adiathna
The player base by in large doesn't have self control. Again that's why games have restrictions in the first place. Consider the following: if Heroic Raid gear could be purchased from a vendor, who would raid?


And again, you are asking for removal of things others enjoy...and INSULT them in the process by labeling them with a lack of "self control"...ever hear of the psychological term projectance? Please do not label others with an issue you obviously feel you have.


Answer the question then, if Heroic Raid gear was available from a vendor, who would raid? A fraction of the current population, no doubt. Psychological projection or not, I'm not wrong. Many players will take the easy way out. Blizzard has even said this.
90 Pandaren Monk
11050
If they took away flying, or limited it, you wouldn't be able to do over half of your dailies in Pandaria.

- Cloud Serpents: Flying Race, Getting to the Island, Getting to the Caves
-Tillers: Getting to the Goats, Getting to the Monkeys, Getting to the Rabbits
-Shadowpan: Getting to the Island, Doing the Bombing Quest
-Dominance Offensive: Doing the Quest of shooting down Copters
-Anglers: Do you really want to swim all the way out to where they are?

And then there is the entrance to MSV. You can't get there without flying.
World Bosses - People aren't going to wait for you to run all the way there. And most of the time they won't summon. They group up, they kill, they leave.

And this isn't limited to just Pandaria. In BC you have to fly to get to some of the dungeons/raids, to get to Ogri'la, to get to Netherwings. In Wotlk you have to fly to get to some of the questing areas, you have to fly to do some dailies, you have to fly to get to some dungeons and raids. In Cata you have to fly everywhere in Deepholm, have to fly in Uldum to get to dungeons, raids, and dailies.
Edited by Avatre on 1/18/2013 10:20 AM PST
100 Human Priest
14830
01/18/2013 10:15 AMPosted by Yandere
Answer the question then, if Heroic Raid gear was available from a vendor, who would raid? A fraction of the current population, no doubt. Psychological projection or not, I'm not wrong. Many players will take the easy way out. Blizzard has even said this.


/em adjusts your "not getting it" sign so it stops covering your "refuses to listen to logic" sign.

/em grins and slides a round over to you.

Discussion requires listening, comprehending, digesting, and logical response. This has become pointless. Luck!
Edited by Adiathna on 1/18/2013 10:24 AM PST
2 Human Monk
0


And again, you are asking for removal of things others enjoy...and INSULT them in the process by labeling them with a lack of "self control"...ever hear of the psychological term projectance? Please do not label others with an issue you obviously feel you have.


Answer the question then, if Heroic Raid gear was available from a vendor, who would raid? A fraction of the current population, no doubt. Psychological projection or not, I'm not wrong. Many players will take the easy way out. Blizzard has even said this.


And what is wrong with easy? The destination should be what engages the player...not the journey. Unless the journey is the destination itself that is (noodle that in your head and realize its meaning doesn't even apply to here anyway).

Edit - I'm not advocating buying heroic raid gear, btw. Speaking strictly on flying here.
Edited by Kuluth on 1/18/2013 10:21 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
8850
01/18/2013 08:39 AMPosted by Nayaga
Does this solution make everyone happy? I doubt it, but it seems like a good place to start anyways...feedback?
No

If you don't want to fly, don't. It's your choice.

Why do you want to take away our flying mounts?


I don't think he wants to take away flying mounts - he just desires a game that is not rendered completely free of traveling difficulty at max level by buying flight training.

Why is flying so "valued"? because you avoid all the hills, winding roads and most importantly - the dangerous mobs that attack you.

If we were in Vanilla, looking toward the release of TBC again - I'd hope that flying mounts would have an energy type resource and could only fly for so long. Now though? afraid the genie can't be put back in the bottle but something new could be implemented.

I think there need to be dangers added in the air - either flying NPCs or jetstreams / downdrafts that require the player to pay attention. The game should not have a switch at max level that says, "oh you mounted a flying mount, let's set the danger level to 0 since you are flying 100 yards above the ground."

Flying should not allow someone to hold the spacebar for 10 seconds, fly up a 100 yards, put autorun on and fly very quickly, directly to their destination with zero threats along the way.
90 Human Paladin
10690
01/18/2013 10:05 AMPosted by Lhivera
Immersion is not about being confronted with mobs and players. Immersion is about facilitating the willing suspension of disbelief, allowing you to feel like you're part of a believable world. In a world that already has flying mounts (the taxis), it already made sense that we could one day own them, given enough resources. It makes sense that we would use them for a tactical advantage. They aid immersion; they don't detract from it.


While questing, flying mounts aren't used as taxi's, they're used as grasshoppers. I don't think hopping over every mob you don't want to fight aids immersion. The occasional one? Possibly, every one? No.
90 Human Warlock
12950
01/18/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Yandere
I don't think hopping over every mob you don't want to fight aids immersion


It does if your class or character wants to avoid fighting wherever possible.

Would a rogue or druid stealthing past all mobs break immersion too, or is it part of what they do?
90 Draenei Death Knight
8220
01/18/2013 10:26 AMPosted by Alysson
Flying should not allow someone to hold the spacebar for 10 seconds, fly up a 100 yards, put autorun on and fly very quickly, directly to their destination with zero threats along the way.


Says who?
90 Blood Elf Priest
8850
01/18/2013 09:45 AMPosted by Tessa
For the record, I'm not anti flying. I'm pro immersion, and I do feel that the game would be better with some restrictions on flight. What I suggested was pretty minor. On any long flight, you could remount the moment you landed, since the 2 minute timer would be up. All it would really prevent is players mounting up between every set of mobs and quest objectives.


Why?

What is gained through fighting through a bunch of pointless mobs?

What's enjoyable and immersive about it?


Because constantly flying in a straight line over a bunch of copycat treetops is next door to a lobby-based game.
100 Night Elf Druid
16915
There's a problem with flying mounts?

Because constantly flying in a straight line over a bunch of copycat treetops is next door to a lobby-based game.


So now you're proposing flight paths?
Edited by Ziryus on 1/18/2013 10:32 AM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
13215
Or perhaps this whole "remove flying" craze could die. In a fire. That'd be great. You think flying makes the world smaller? Don't fly unless you have to. /end
90 Human Paladin
10690
01/18/2013 10:31 AMPosted by Ozaî
Or perhaps this whole "remove flying" craze could die. In a fire. That'd be great. You think flying makes the world smaller? Don't fly unless you have to. /end


Zero people in this thread asked for flying to be removed.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6865
Absolutely not.
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