The 5.2 blog is tricking most people

100 Undead Priest
9895
Dear Blizzard,

Why does gearing up for PvP have to feel like a chore? Let people play for the love of the game and stop with BS like the following:

So, reading through this thread, it seems that you guys are worried that the gear grind has grown a lot longer, and that we’ve actually widened the power gap. There are more details to come in the future, but in the meantime there are a few important things that you should know and keep in mind as we continue this discussion:

  • There are no Elite bracers, cloaks, rings, amulets or trinkets. The cost of getting all pieces of Elite gear should end up being about 17,250 Conquest Points.
  • Item level is only part of the picture. We were more generous with PvP Power and Resilience on the Honor gear.
  • The item level gap between Tyrannical items and Elite Tyrannical items is relatively small.
  • It's not relevant to 5.2, but we understand that the Item Upgrade system on Conquest gear made a long gear grind even longer. We don’t mind that it takes some time to get awesome stuff, but we also recognize the problems that this presents too, and we’re definitely giving thought to solutions.


Do you honestly think any of this alleviates the problem that there is far too much of a grind in the process of gearing up for PvP?

Honestly.
Edited by Multicidez on 1/23/2013 7:26 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19425
Item level is only part of the picture. We were more generous with PvP Power and Resilience on the Honor gear.


I thought that the amount of all stats on items was a function of ilvl, and weren't customized from item to item, is this not the case?


For normal stats, yes, their total budget is determined by ilvl. Pvp power and resilience aren't part of the normal item budget anymore (which is why pvp gear has two rating stats now, unlike before), and can be raised or lowered as they see fit.

Unfortunately in situations like this season, where the difference in pvp power between upgraded honor gear and normal conquest gear is basically nothing, there is still a huge difference in the effectiveness in the gear because of the normal stats.

Also, "relatively small" is pretty subjective. The clarification is great to have, though.

01/23/2013 07:26 PMPosted by Multicidez
Do you honestly think any of this alleviates the problem that there is far too much of a grind in the process of gearing up for PvP?


One would be inclined to believe that they don't think there is too much of a grind, thus aren't trying to alleviate anything.
Edited by Cayse on 1/23/2013 7:45 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7495
Elite seems unnecessary. That's still like an extra 2 months of grinding.
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90 Goblin Mage
14560
I have an idea: stop applying pve principles to pvp.

There, problem solved.

There should never be a gear disparity in pvp.


absolutely 100% correct but I think that blizzard feels that people won't play or something if they don't have an "incentive" which would be a complete joke btw. Having t oconstantly change gear is annoying and gear imbalance has no place in pvp anyway
Edited by Zod on 1/23/2013 7:51 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7495
While we are at it. You guys might as well address the bot problems. The reason they bot is because of the grind, but you refuse to acknowledge this issue and don't do anything about it.
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88 Orc Hunter
4055
1) 27,000cp required for t2 gear/weapons
2) 2.2k required for different color t2 armor
3) everyone has same stats/gear when it comes down to it (higher cap means you get gear faster)
4) 2.2k players have different colored t2 armor sets

i can understand this might contradict some of the changes made to prevent carries/rating boosts. but i still think less is more for arena/rbg. besides from what i hear you guys are adding item upgrades back in to the game come 5.3. this will be enough grinding.
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90 Undead Warlock
9955
01/23/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Zildjian
Where are you getting the extra 23k from?


Upgrades will be reintroduced in 5.3, which will not end the season.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7445
I have an idea: stop applying pve principles to pvp.

There, problem solved.

There should never be a gear disparity in pvp.


absolutely 100% correct but I think that blizzard feels that people won't play or something if they don't have an "incentive" which would be a complete joke btw. Having t oconstantly change gear is annoying and gear imbalance has no place in pvp anyway


Lol at afraid people wont play, arena participation is down something like 65% this season.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
01/23/2013 05:54 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There are no Elite bracers, cloaks, rings, amulets or trinkets. The cost of getting all pieces of Elite gear should end up being about 17,250 Conquest Points.

Interesting.

01/23/2013 05:54 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Item level is only part of the picture. We were more generous with PvP Power and Resilience on the Honor gear.

I've heard you or another blue say this before, but I'm not sure I get it. Am I to understand that because PvP stats are free and therefore have zero effect on ilvl, a lower ilvl piece of PvP gear could theoretically have more resil & PvP power than a higher ilvl piece?

The devs would never do that because it wouldn't make sense, but if PvP stats are a tuning knob then I'd like some transparency. I want a "PvP ilvl."

01/23/2013 05:54 PMPosted by Daxxarri
It's not relevant to 5.2, but we understand that the Item Upgrade system on Conquest gear made a long gear grind even longer. We don’t mind that it takes some time to get awesome stuff, but we also recognize the problems that this presents too, and we’re definitely giving thought to solutions.

Please don't bring upgrades back to PvP. Pretty please. I think my reasoning should be obvious.
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100 Human Mage
16640
01/23/2013 09:02 PMPosted by Facespace
Where are you getting the extra 23k from?


Upgrades will be reintroduced in 5.3, which will not end the season.


Yeah, I had a feeling that's where you were getting the extra.

Do you have any links that can provide some certainty on them returning? I never saw anything concrete. I remember seeing something along the lines of "The NPC will probably be reintroduced in 5.3, but we're still going to be following feedback and see how people feel about it"

Even if they do return it's possible that PvP items could be excluded from being upgraded, as a large majority of the community seems to be against the idea for PvP.
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19 Undead Hunter
90
People just don't think.

Character Progression is the primary foundation of a game like this. When your toon stops progressing, it's dead.

Gear is a form of Progression.

Imagine everyone got a full set of PvP gear upon hitting 90. They had that gear not just the whole season...but until the next expansion.

That's zero gear disparity.

PvP would be dead virtually over night.
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100 Human Mage
16640
People just don't think.

Character Progression is the primary foundation of a game like this. When your toon stops progressing, it's dead.

Gear is a form of Progression.

Imagine everyone got a full set of PvP gear upon hitting 90. They had that gear not just the whole season...but until the next expansion.

That's zero gear disparity.

PvP would be dead virtually over night.


The excessive botting you see now would certainly die out. I personally would just be playing even more alts in PvP.

I do agree with you somewhat though. You need to be working towards something. Not necessarily gear but there should be some kind of progression or goal in mind to keep people playing realistically.
Edited by Zildjian on 1/23/2013 10:53 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
11605
People just don't think.

Character Progression is the primary foundation of a game like this. When your toon stops progressing, it's dead.

Gear is a form of Progression.

Imagine everyone got a full set of PvP gear upon hitting 90. They had that gear not just the whole season...but until the next expansion.

That's zero gear disparity.

PvP would be dead virtually over night.


The excessive botting you see now would certainly die out. I personally would just be playing even more alts in PvP.

I do agree with you somewhat though. You need to be working towards something. Not necessarily gear but there should be some kind of progression or goal in mind to keep people playing realistically.


Agree that in a genre like this having some 'progression' in gear is an expected carrot to keep people playing and paying.

That being said, given that everyone is on the same treadmill and your opponents become progressively harder (from a gear standpoint) as the season moves on (unlike in PvE where the more gear you get the easier the boss becomes to down) what is a sufficient length of grind and what is satisfying is never going to be a one-size fits all type of opinion.

Personally, I think the numbers they are talking about even missing some of the pieces and if they dont re-institute gear upgrades (horribad idea in the first place even for PvE), is still WAAAAY too many CPs with the current costs and cap/accrual rate for the very people they are trying to get back into PvP- i.e. the not hardcore 2400+ players that tend to post here.

I liked the idea posted in another thread about making 'new' tier of gear an honor tier rather than a CP tier.

Shameless link- http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7709232048
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100 Human Paladin
13970
I personally would be fine with being able to upgrade gear for honor... but not Conquest. Dear heavens not for Conquest.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
01/24/2013 12:01 AMPosted by Callukeeper
I personally would be fine with being able to upgrade gear for honor... but not Conquest. Dear heavens not for Conquest.

yea, mid-season (patch 5.3) upgrades for the honor set which would bring it a touch closer to the tier 1 conquest gear. that's fine. upgrades for conquest gear is not
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7495
People just don't think.

Character Progression is the primary foundation of a game like this. When your toon stops progressing, it's dead.

Gear is a form of Progression.

Imagine everyone got a full set of PvP gear upon hitting 90. They had that gear not just the whole season...but until the next expansion.

That's zero gear disparity.

PvP would be dead virtually over night.


Really? Gear is normalized on tournaments and by extension it should on rated pvp because you have progression in the form of ratings.

I can't be alone where I'm happy the gear treadmill stops.

There's been some calls for normalizing gear with the introduction of challenge mode. What do you think is the incentive for challenge mode? Leaderboards. Once you get gold that's it. Why does Blizzard think challenge mode without progression is perfectly ok? What's the difference between challenge mode and arena really? I just don't get these people sometimes.

We went out and did world pvp before bgs and then did bgs before they had rewards. People pvped for the fun of it for a long time and still do. By that logic no one would have played vanilla.
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5 Tauren Monk
0
I get tired of posts like this. QQ is all I can read. If you hit 1500 plus you have an increase in conquest point cap...... So just hit 1500 and raise your cap from like 1800 to 2200. please stop crying about things like this...
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