Shadow Priest PvP utility nerfs

90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
From GC's Twitter:

@Ghostcrawler can we get some shadow utility nerfs already?

@tevtev17 We're nerfing their healing. Trying to promote more discussion in the community about what the right fixes are.

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So, what does everyone think? Void Shift is a little silly, and as a Ret I'm still butthurt that Shadow can get their teammates out of CC with Mass Dispel.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
they're gutting flash heal by 30%....what else do you want? Srsly.
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90 Orc Shaman
10515
flash heal isnt the problem.

Pom / Renew / Bubble are.

remove them from shadow spec.

shadow spec is fixed.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
5510
flash heal isnt the problem.

Pom / Renew / Bubble are.

remove them from shadow spec.

shadow spec is fixed.


shadow spec is broken, you mean :)

If they did this they would have to compensate them elsewhere, both so that PvE leveling/questing isn't rogue level obnoxiousness and so that they don't vanish entirely.

It's the good old Warrior/Mage/Rogue/DK/Ret conundrum. Some people won't be happy until they are literally a free kill.
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90 Orc Shaman
10515
01/20/2013 07:35 PMPosted by Sorrów
If they did this they would have to compensate them elsewhere, both so that PvE leveling/questing isn't rogue level obnoxiousness and so that they don't vanish entirely.


im sorry, no they would not. you can still spam cast flash heal which is both less expensive and more healing than healing surge or pally flash of light or druid regrowth..

01/20/2013 07:35 PMPosted by Sorrów
shadow spec is broken, you mean :)


no its quite a good spec still.

01/20/2013 07:35 PMPosted by Sorrów
It's the good old Warrior/Mage/Rogue/DK/Ret conundrum. Some people won't be happy until they are literally a free kill.


it wouldnt even come close to making spriests a free kill. spriests currently do too much healing. approx 33% of an actualy HEALERS healing. and its all from pom/renew/bubble. almost never cast flash heal.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
So, remove two spells that the priest has to glyph to use? Then, remove the only defensive spell any priest has baseline leaving them only with dispersion?

You sound hurt. Show me on this doll where the evil spriest touched you.
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90 Orc Shaman
10515
So, remove two spells that the priest has to glyph to use? Then, remove the only defensive spell any priest has baseline leaving them only with dispersion?


yeah. if it makes them balanced....
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90 Goblin Shaman
11545
While I don't think flash heal was the way to go, removing all of those abilities would really hurt a spec that has no kiting mechanic. I think you're right, though...they would still be viable for arena because of how much instant cast burst they can line up.

I thought for sure mass dispel would be the victim. Flash heal is hard cast, there are many counters. Maybe they could instead make FDCL work with exclusively MS for shadow and not offer them instant flash heals. It would remain the de facto pvp talent because it gives instant cast nukes.
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90 Human Warrior
11020
Just look at the things that shadow got in MoP and you can see where they got most of their weakness removed.

-Don't really have to hardcast much with procs
-New VT makes their mana much better then it was in cata.
-Glyph of Dark Binding allows them to do much more healing outside of flash heal
-Spectral Guise and Phantasm allowing them to get free damaging and healing off.
-Psyfiend allowing them to fear without worrying about proximity as much.
-Lifeswap not much more to say
-VE becoming a healing CD to help against burst

There is probably more I'm missing and they were already a very decent class in cata.
Edited by Faust on 1/20/2013 9:30 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9080
Priests can now successfully face-tank?

TO THE GROUND.
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90 Orc Shaman
10515
01/20/2013 10:16 PMPosted by Sanctifiêd
when 99% of high end arena is god comp, it has to be for SOME reason.


its not just that its 99% of high end being god comp (i actually think KFC is better represented) its just that priests do wayyyyy tooooo muchhhhh healing.

im glad GC finally realizes that ret/boom/ele/enh/feral off heals are lacking while spriest is too much.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
Priests can now successfully face-tank?

TO THE GROUND.


Basically. Spriests do what they are supposed to do as they can't kite for squat...better nerf 'em.

And to all the "too much healing": we did more in cata than we do now as we actually had more healing spells to work with then than now. The only biggy given was VE, which always was a healing spell. Just now, it's a CD instead of static. Healing hybrid...healing...gasp!

The amt of whining in just this season alone was made me not want to pvp, and my pvp toon is going to be buffed here shortly.

Just look at the things that shadow got in MoP and you can see where they got most of their weakness removed.

-Don't really have to hardcast much with procs
-New VT makes their mana much better then it was in cata.
-Glyph of Dark Binding allows them to do much more healing outside of flash heal
-Spectral Guise and Phantasm allowing them to get free damaging and healing off.
-Psyfiend allowing them to fear without worrying about proximity as much.
-Lifeswap not much more to say
-VE becoming a healing CD to help against burst

There is probably more I'm missing and they were already a very decent class in cata.


-Have to hard cast MB, VT, and Flay to get those procs workin
-VT change was nice, but not uncommon to all the casting specs as none of 'em will go OOM unless they are being forced to heal themselves or were designed to oom from the start, ie. locks.
-PoM and Renew....uh, even spamming PoM on cd is not going to heal jack. If you want to focus on healing like that, look at the 90 talents, which are all healing talents coupled with dmg components.
-Hit the shadow 3 times....Phantasm is nice, must say. Defensive talents allow someone to be...defensive and recoup, k.
-Already been nerfed from its former glory
-Already been nerfed from its former glory
-Healing CD....all casters have one. Hell, don't all specs have a healing cd now?
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90 Orc Shaman
10515
01/20/2013 10:45 PMPosted by Ponderous
Spriests do what they are supposed to do as they can't kite for squat...


Lol Psyfiend, lol tendrils, lol fade.

Thats how you kite as an spriest. im glad i could help.

01/20/2013 10:45 PMPosted by Ponderous
-Have to hard cast MB


no you dont.

01/20/2013 10:45 PMPosted by Ponderous
PoM and Renew....uh, even spamming PoM on cd is not going to heal jack


No its not going to heal "jack" its going to heal your teammates. For a lot over the course of a match. Its huge healing output.

01/20/2013 10:45 PMPosted by Ponderous
Hit the shadow 3 times....Phantasm is nice, must say


Its easy to counter phastasm's "just hit me 3 times" as a melee, not so much as a caster who has no off the GCD damage. so 3 GCD's to break you out of immunity, or 3 seconds. 3 seconds comes quicker for most.

Granted against a enh shaman who's going to hit you 8 times in the span of a GCD its much less effective.

still toooooo strong.

Psyfiend and lifeswap still too op. No justification or defense is allowed. both should be removed from arenas just like heroism, lay on hands, and rebirth.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5620
From GC's Twitter:

@Ghostcrawler can we get some shadow utility nerfs already?

@tevtev17 We're nerfing their healing. Trying to promote more discussion in the community about what the right fixes are.

----

So, what does everyone think? Void Shift is a little silly, and as a Ret I'm still butthurt that Shadow can get their teammates out of CC with Mass Dispel.


Hmm i guess you are missing the fact that Spriest cant kite. removing bubble is like removing bubble on mage. renew ticks for less than second wind with far less. ill trade prayer of mending for a low cd aoe root any day. the only valid thing in your arguement is taking mass dispel out of shadow spec but than ppl would just get healing priests in their teams to do it anyways.
Edited by Turmoyl on 1/21/2013 12:21 AM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
10515
01/21/2013 12:21 AMPosted by Turmoyl
i guess you are missing the fact that Spriest cant kite.


only bad spriests cant kite.

you have void tendrils to root, phastasm to clear slows/snares and temporary immunity, and fear on a 23s cd as well as psyfiend to create distance.

01/21/2013 12:21 AMPosted by Turmoyl
removing bubble is like removing bubble on mage


except a mage cant cast ice barrier on other targets. THATS the real issue.

01/21/2013 12:21 AMPosted by Turmoyl
renew ticks for less than second wind with far less

except a warrior cant cast second wind on other targets. THATS the real issue.

01/21/2013 12:21 AMPosted by Turmoyl
ll trade prayer of mending for a low cd aoe root any day.


sounds great. im going to give you void tendrils. you are now no longer able to use PoM.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
Healing hybrid...healing their team, no way. It's like a Ret getting skills to buff healing OTHERS...unheard of!

You keep saying fiend and roots, but they both sit on the same tier, and there are a myriad of ways to get out of roots these days. Also, fiend has no hp anymore, thanks to rampant nerfs, so hit it and it goes away. Also, fear breaks just like any other fear out there....one a single tick of dmg unless the target has a shield on 'em. Then, it will consume the shield before counting against the fear cap.

Spriests have always had utility. That is why you bring one: dmg and the ability to heal/bubble. As to the 'not having to hard cast', I'll concede to the point that when a spriest starts getting multiple procs over and over, it gets dumb. But all these procs rely on having dots up...which are getting dispelled immediately, and then the spriest must find room to cast as they are being tunneled.

It seems to me you were beaten by a spriest on a team, and just immediately ran to the forums.
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90 Orc Shaman
10515
01/21/2013 12:53 AMPosted by Ponderous
It seems to me you were beaten by a spriest on a team, and just immediately ran to the forums


or.... i actually realize that spriest are overpowered and are asking for nerfs to them and your bias is blinding you to the fact of how strong the spec really is.

Healing hybrid...healing their team, no way. It's like a Ret getting skills to buff healing OTHERS...unheard of!


Hybrid off-healing is a fine thing. But ret/ele/enh/boomkin/feral druids cant put out as much healing as spriests. heck, DISC priests have a hard time putting out as much healing as shadow priests in arena.

Shadow just does too much off healing. Its like 4.2 rets before the wog nerf. too much is too much.

Allow spriests to bubble themselves, maybe allow renew. make pom a disc/holy ability only, and up the cost of Flash heal and lower its effectiveness.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8480
The claim of bias is just laughable as I'm a holy dps priest, and I pvp on a monk on another account.

Disc's numbers will never truly show on the scoreboard as it is not taking into account all the absorbs being tossed around where as shadow is just doing raw healing. Disc is fine; it is the dispel that holds disc back, always has and always will.

Ret was doing fine til they nerfed them again...i never understand their logic. A melee spec should never do as much healing as a casting spec as it defeats the purpose, so hance and feral should be subpar healing considering the amount of uptime they have. This is why the ret nerfs are boggling as they have said they were meant to be off healers, but ...now, they should not? A balance druid doesn't have as much defensive utility, but more offensive against casters. Ele gets to cast on the move, totems, dispels, a much better interrupt than any other caster due to the frequency (regardless of the small time frame of the interrupt -- we have all seen what a well timed shear can do during a train) and heals as well...they just have to hard cast their heals rather than hot or preemptive heal.

Different classes are different. Get over it.

The only unique spell shadow has over other casters is mass dispel, and that is b/c someone has to be able to pop a bubble or block when the countless mobs of warriors aren't around...tough.
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90 Orc Warrior
5850
Having a shadowpriest on your team makes your healer practically immune to CC.

This is a problem.

As a melee, void tendrils make me want to punch kittens.

This is a problem.

Incredibly high utility, durability, damage, and control.
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