Lack-luster AoE healing abilities?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
11840
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but it seems like casting Holy Radiance isn't even worth it. Why do I even have the spell as a baseline ability?

Buff Holy Radiance, somehow, someway? It isn't worth casting except to "maintenance heal" (and even that is debatable with the range modifier) while building Holy Power charges so I can cast Light of Dawn once. In situations where there is a lot of AoE damage, I run out of mana too quick to do anything about it. It may be a gear issue, but I don't see my problem getting any better with gear upgrades from what I have done (so far).

Oh and give me back my Consecration, and make it so that if I am Holy specialized, it heals instead of damages? I don't care about the damage, as Holy.

Just a few ideas, anyway.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10765
Holy Radiance is very much worth it, but it gets much better with the tier 14 2-piece. It also grants Daybreak from your Holy Shock ability, which is another AE heal. Your issues are probably mostly related to gear.

Holy Radiance:

Imbues a friendly target with radiant energy, healing that target for 5098 to 6230 (+ 67.5% of Spell Power) and all allies within 10 yards for 50% of that amount. Grants a charge of Holy Power.

Healing effectiveness diminishes for each player target beyond 6.


Daybreak:

After casting Holy Radiance, your next Holy Shock will also heal other allies within 10 yards of the target for an amount equal to the original healing done, divided evenly among all targets


For both spells (Holy Radiance and Holy Shock when Daybreak is up), you will be prioritizing the person with the greatest health deficit. Nevertheless, I'm not sure whether you're speaking PVE or PVP healing since you've logged out in PVP gear for the time being.

For PVE healing, on AOE heavy fights, my spell breakdown is something like this:

- Illuminated Healing
- Eternal Flame
- Holy Radiance
- Holy Shock
- Beacon
- Light of Dawn
- Daybreak
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11840
PvE healing. I don't dare cast Holy Radiance in PvP, that would be downright silly, except in very limited situations.

I just don't like the 10 yard deal, that seems kind of limited when compared to Prayer of Healing or Circle of healing, because as the WoW lore goes (lol) Paladins are priests in plate. Just sayin' ;p

I'll try a different setup or something, but, I really don't like it. It costs way too much mana for being such a limited range spell.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8030
I would say that holy radiance falls in to the "situational" category. Holy paladins are very much balanced this expansion around their holy power finishers, so HR granting a holy power significantly increases its effectiveness. As Nasonia mentioned, it also procs daybreak, which is a nice bonus. The biggest issue as you have stated is the small range.

I heal with mouseover macros, so more often then not during aoe damage I will mouse directly over someone in the middle of a cluster to make sure the splash healing gets used. I believe addons like vudhu have aoe advice which also help point out possible HR targets, if you are having issues.

In general, it's not a spammable filler, but it is still a quite useful tool to weave in when opportunities present itself.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11840
True, it is situational, but that is why it is lack-luster; hence the thread title. Way too much mana for a 10 yard range spell.

I don't use macros or addons, they're a crutch! Situational awareness > addons/macros imo :D
(But, to each their own).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10765
01/21/2013 11:04 AMPosted by Caeralton
True, it is situational, but that is why it is lack-luster; hence the thread title. Way too much mana for a 10 yard range spell.


As a note, I primarily use it on melee or when the group is clumped together. Stating that something is lackluster because it is situational is also nonsensical. The situations where it useful don't come few and far between, particularly if you have the wherewithal to use it appropriately. I could see buffing it to a 12 yard range, but this would make it overpowered.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8030
I don't use macros or addons, they're a crutch! Situational awareness > addons/macros imo :D
(But, to each their own).

Lol....

Anyways, The point I was trying to get across is just because a tool is situational does not mean it is necessarily lackluster. HR is used when you need to aoe heal and have at least a partly stacked group. When those conditions are met it is a strong tool, and well worth the mana. Use it when conditions warrant it.

Edit: Nasonia you totally beat me to the punch, blast!
Edited by Corvala on 1/21/2013 11:21 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11840
Prayer of Healing is 30 yards, costs 4.5% mana, and gets 83.8% spell power bonus.

Holy Radiance has a 10 yard range, and costs way too much (36%?!), only gets 67.5% SP bonus, and diminishes on targets beyond 6, not counting the 50% reduction from the primary target.

Except to build a charge of Holy Power (and of course the secondary ability for Holy Shock... Which still isn't worth casting for), it is VERY lack-luster.

I would probably use it more often if it cost less mana, but yeah, even both of you admit that when the "conditions warrant it".

But how often does that really happen, honestly? It's more effective to just single target heal, while building up Holy Power charges, and then cast Light of Dawn.

In raids, you don't have the problem of AoE healing because other classes pick up the slack where Paladin AoE heals lack. But in small groups where you're the only healer... Meh. Why bother casting it? Especially in fights where the mechanics dictate that people spread out and/or move around a lot, it is totally useless.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10765
Prayer of Healing hits 5 targets. It gets a higher spell coefficient because it has a longer base cast time. Prayer of Healing is supposed to be a bread-and-butter spell for priests; Holy Radiance is supposed to be a situational spell for paladins. It's rarely a spell to be used in 5 mans, but it is a spell that gets a lot of use in 10- and 25-man raids because of the nature of the content.

As a note, you also have Light of Dawn for AE healing, and actually, rolling Eternal Flame is pretty beneficial. Just because you see no use for a spell, or dislike the fact that it is situational, does not mean that the spell is obsolete or lacks use. The spell is balanced around holy power generation for LoD healing and the fact that it garners a Daybreak proc for Holy Shock. There's a lot of supplementary healing that comes into play after using Holy Radiance.

As a note, Prayer of Healing is being nerfed come next patch. Holy Radiance could use a slight range buff, and a slightly reduced cost of mana, but for the benefits it otherwise provides, it is somewhat balanced at the present.
Edited by Nasonia on 1/21/2013 3:59 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8030
^What Nasonia said. Comparing holy radiance to prayer of healing is going to get you into trouble because they are meant to do different things.

In a nutshell, HR is meant to be used as an aoe filler to build hp for EF/LoD. PoH is...PoH. It is the first and last stop for aoe healing, esp for disc priests, and lacks the synergy we get from HR. Asking HR to compete in output with PoH would make it dramatically overpowered considering everything else it does. Is it the all-in-one spammable aoe heal that PoH is? No. Is it still a valuable tool? Yup!
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go back to cata for an example of OP holy radiance....solo healing content that wasnt intended to be solo healed was fun
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11840
Prayer of Healing gets a nice synergy bonus from casting Flash Heal once or twice (as Holy spec, anyways) which increases cast speed AND reduces mana cost. It is also guaranteed and not a proc, where as the cast speed reduction for HR is dependent upon the proc from Holy Shock.

It's not that I want it to be more like PoH, I just want it to maybe cost less mana. I'd be happy with a radius increase too, like yeah, 12 yards or so would be reasonable. I don't want to be "overpowered", just... A little more incentive for casting it even if people aren't stacked right on top of each other?

Eh.
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A little more incentive for casting it even if people aren't stacked right on top of each other?



and the holy power generation is that incentive...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
18400
i don't use it a ton on 10-man. only when everyone is stack on a burn or something, but then i use it with holy shock and light of dawn. otherwise like on H garalon I'll use it when I get Infusion of Light procs on the ranged people.. In that case it's nice just for the 1 HP to get more EF HoTs out faster. I can't really think of any fight where I'm using it a lot though... maybe like the last part of Elegon or something... for 10 seconds.
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90 Human Paladin
9770
Basically Hpally is the strongest *consistent* healer (speaking from 10 mans exp at least)
When it comes down to bursty fights (Vizier in HoF for example) you do very little aoe healing for the FnV !@#$, as your standard aoe healing (pre-build up of HP, LoD, hope for proc, radiance, aoe Shock, radiance) isn't going to keep the raid alive

Unfortunately Wings is a cd better saved for increased passive healing, not burst, and GoaK doesn't do anything for us (seriously depressing how little it does for Holy compared to other specs) unless we were to spam Divine Light in melee and hope that the 50% (total) of a divine light to all melee, will be enough to save the raid

Basically, we just keep chugging along, blanket the raid with 1HP EF and let the other healers pop their aoe cds, while we mock them at the end of the fight for not being at 90% mana and pulling the same HPS
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11840
01/21/2013 07:24 PMPosted by Hershel
and the holy power generation is that incentive...


No, it's really not. For that much mana, it should award 2 Holy Power charges... or just ya know, reduce the mana cost. And just to add, I don't know about anyone else, but I go out of my way to avoid casting it if I can.
Edited by Caeralton on 1/21/2013 9:42 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7090
I don't use macros or addons, they're a crutch! Situational awareness > addons/macros imo :D
(But, to each their own).


I found your problem.

But seriously, I think you're underestimating the value of holy power. HR is tied for the cheapest generator of HP we have that isn't on a cooldown. When you need LoD NOW, HR is a good way to generate the HP you need. Daybreak is essentially free healing, since you're going to be using holy shock on cooldown anyway (And if you're not, you should be), and a good portion of the healing you're doing is going to transfer at least partially through the beacon.

Also, when you compare mana costs between hybrid classes (like the paladin) and pure caster classes (like the priest), you need to remember that our base mana is 60k and theirs is 300k, even though we both end up with 300k after specialization. Divide our ability costs by 5 to determine what percentage of our actual mana bar each ability takes.

Our AoE may not be the best among healing classes, but we can't be the best at everything
Edited by Kittenhooves on 1/22/2013 4:13 AM PST
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2pc pve...reduces its cost by 10%
4pc pve,,,4sec hs cd

how much more aoe healing do you need?

we can just agree to disagree as I can see you only want to see it your way
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11840
I don't use macros or addons, they're a crutch! Situational awareness > addons/macros imo :D
(But, to each their own).


I found your problem.


Lol. Hey remember when healbotters cried rivers when Blizzard finally disabled the "smash one button addon" functionality? You're not "pro" because you use macros and addons, any more than I am for just using hotkeys and paying attention to what the heck is going on. You would suffer a lot more than I, should Blizzard ever disable the functionality of the macro capabilites, or, if the addon you rely on is no longer supported. But we would all suffer should Blizzard ever disable the use of hotkeys. So me using only hotkeys for everything, isn't the problem.

Don't tell me "we can't be the best at everything", because that isn't what I'm asking. I'm just saying that a SMALL boost to Holy Radiance is more than likely needed, because as it stands right now, it is totally lame. I go out of my way to avoid casting it if I can, because it is seriously that bad.

10 yard range, 50% healing from the primary target, diminishes beyond targets numbering 6, are all things that make the spell underwhelming. There are 5 classes that can heal, and the priest class is the only "dedicated" healing class. (I say "dedicated", because technically anything that can perform at least two roles is a "hybrid" class. Priests are, technically, a hybrid class since they can specialize into Shadow.)

The other 4 are all hybrids. I don't know how the other 3 hybrid AoE heals are, but I do know that Holy Radiance kinda sucks. I'm not saying it is totally useless, but yeah. I mean, if I specialize for healing, I want better heals. I have Dual Talent specialization if I want to go do dailies as Retribution so I don't spend 5 minutes killing one mobile object as Holy.

If the only thing Blizzard did was make it so HR gives you two charges of Holy Power, so I could HR => HS => (3)LoD, I'd be happy. I'd also be happy if they just reduced the cost a bit and nothing else. I'd also be happy if they increased the range slightly and gave it a small boost to the healing done beyond the primary target.

I'm not asking for all three, while dual wielding 2h weapons and taking 90% less damage at all times. I think what I am asking is fairly reasonable, all things considered.

2pc pve...reduces its cost by 10%
4pc pve,,,4sec hs cd

how much more aoe healing do you need?

we can just agree to disagree as I can see you only want to see it your way


Okay, and if you don't have the set bonus? Then what? You're gimped until you do have it. But of course, once you get it you're pro and everyone else is noob, amirite?

My main reason for even making this post is that I (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't have to have a tier set bonus to do the Challenge Mode dungeons. I realize my gear isn't even at the level I need for Challenge Mode dungeons, but, I shouldn't *need to have* a set bonus to get extra AoE healing capabilities. For example, Wise Mari does some serious AoE damage. While the gear gets scaled down, you still retain the set bonus if you have the tier set.

I'll probably also re-talent for Holy Flame, but then why do the other talents in that talent tier seem so underwhelming? It's like no one even gets those other talents. If Holy Flame can be on multiple targets at once, why can't Sacred Shield somehow be more useful? Selfless healer seems "okay" I suppose, but not so much that people would sacrifice a HoT for it, ya know?
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