Incentive too high for 25?

90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
01/23/2013 04:04 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
Yea also increasing the chances that they're not thunderforge,


That.. isn't how statistics work.
90 Human Paladin
15265
01/23/2013 04:05 PMPosted by Niia
That.. isn't how statistics work.


Statistics, is not how loot works in World of Warcraft.

You can theorize loot rates all you want, but if it takes that guy 101 times to get that 1% drop, then the statistics dont really mean anything do they?
Edited by Paladinchaz on 1/23/2013 4:07 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
That.. isn't how statistics work.


Statistics, is not how loot works in World of Warcraft.


You seem to be incredibly confused and fairly misinformed about what is going on here.
Edited by Niia on 1/23/2013 4:08 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
15265
01/23/2013 04:08 PMPosted by Niia
You seem to be incredibly confused and fairly misinformed about what is going on here.


You're trying to argue math for a random system by saying If "x" drop has "y" chance to happen, then it should happen "z" times for "w" many attempts

Which would be amazing if it actually amounted to anything, then I could predict which weeks to show up to get the loot I wanted instead of playing how the game actually works with the RNG loot pinata.

A higher chance is still a 'chance' not a guarantee.
Edited by Paladinchaz on 1/23/2013 4:12 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
01/23/2013 04:07 PMPosted by Teye
Its just as much the work of the Raiders as the Officers to perform the more challenging 25 man encounters.


This is a load and you know it. It sounds great to say its all equal, but at the end of the day I think you know it just straight up isn't true. As an officer, you do all the raiders are expected to do and 10 times more. Recruiting, raid comps, research, inner-guild relations, the whole nine yards, multiplied by 2.5. A normal raider does not need to worry themselves with those things, and I think you are well aware of how much extra work it is.
82 Undead Warlock
4865
I remember getting my first epic in a 40 man raid. I loved that epic....
90 Orc Warrior
3750
LOL opinion vs fact argument.

25 mans were always harder in BC and wrath and then people like you came in and complained that 25 mans were too hard to organize and run. Now 10 mans are on an even playing field.

From what I've seen 10 to 25 is like 4 to 5. Why is that? BECAUSE IT'S NOT HARDER IT'S EASIER TO COMPOSE.

So we come back to the original question, Why do 25 man's get more loot and more of a chance at better gear? BECAUSE IT'S HARDER TO COMPOSE. Only on a selected few fights was there an obvious difference in difficulty from 10 to 25 man.

Another reason for 25 being harder. You only need 10 good players to progress. For 25's you need AT THE VERY LEAST 19 solidly good players during progression.

Get over it, your little "10 mans are hard" comment is just plain dumb.
70 Goblin Warlock
7200
YOU SIR, ARE A LEVEL 10, YOU DO NOT RAID. This idea of blizzard is good.
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
01/23/2013 04:11 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
You seem to be incredibly confused and fairly misinformed about what is going on here.


You're trying to argue math for a random system by saying If "x" drop has "y" chance to happen, then it should happen "z" times for "w" many attempts

Which would be amazing if it actually amounted to anything, then I could predict which weeks to show up to get the loot I wanted instead of playing how the game actually works with the RNG loot pinata.

A higher chance is still a 'chance' not a guarantee.


Ancedata is not indicative of a larger trend.

The larger trends will indeed reflect increased gear saturation in 25 mans as a result of the increased droprate, combined with 6 pieces of loot for 25 versus 2 for 10. It doesnt matter one bit if little Timmy waits 1001 boss kills to get the piece of loot he wants.

The larger picture across 25 mans will reflect the increased drop rates, and it will be reflected in the relative heal/tank/dps potential of the average 25 man raider as time goes on - particularly once a new tier comes out.
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
LOL opinion vs fact argument.

25 mans were always harder in BC and wrath and then people like you came in and complained that 25 mans were too hard to organize and run. Now 10 mans are on an even playing field.

From what I've seen 10 to 25 is like 4 to 5. Why is that? BECAUSE IT'S NOT HARDER IT'S EASIER TO COMPOSE.

So we come back to the original question, Why do 25 man's get more loot and more of a chance at better gear? BECAUSE IT'S HARDER TO COMPOSE. Only on a selected few fights was there an obvious difference in difficulty from 10 to 25 man.

Another reason for 25 being harder. You only need 10 good players to progress. For 25's you need AT THE VERY LEAST 19 solidly good players during progression.

Get over it, your little "10 mans are hard" comment is just plain dumb.


Stop yelling.

And fyi, BC didn't have equivalent 10/25 mans. There were raids that were 25 man only, and raids that were 10 man only - Karazhan and Zul'Aman.

Not quite comparable, cupcake.
Edited by Niia on 1/23/2013 4:18 PM PST
90 Pandaren Shaman
15245
Haha really OP? really? How can you not see that 25 mans are more difficult to organize and need a reward for it? Are you just stubborn? XD

This isn't a "slap in the face to 10 mans", knock it off haha
90 Human Paladin
15265
The larger trends will indeed reflect increased gear saturation in 25 mans as a result of the increased droprate, combined with 6 pieces of loot for 25 versus 2 for 10. It doesnt matter one bit if little Timmy waits 1001 boss kills to get the piece of loot he wants.

The larger picture across 25 mans will reflect the increased drop rates, and it will be reflected in the relative heal/tank/dps potential of the average 25 man raider as time goes on - particularly once a new tier comes out.


Then why arent there more 25 mans, if all people care about is loot? And they're so 'easy' to get loot in?
Edited by Paladinchaz on 1/23/2013 4:17 PM PST
85 Night Elf Druid
12000
How about the drop chance for the items be the same on both formats but from now on mounts from raids will only drop on 25 man. That way there is no loot disparity between the two and the only difference would be pure vanity.
01/23/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Sanctifiêd
see the problem?


Yes, the problem is that 25 man raids have been steady declining in number and Blizzard is attempting to mitigate that.... apparently though you DON'T see the problem.
Edited by Lilfox on 1/23/2013 4:19 PM PST
72 Gnome Warrior
9290
25 man raids FTW! 10 man raids are for women and children imo.
90 Blood Elf Priest
10795
The larger trends will indeed reflect increased gear saturation in 25 mans as a result of the increased droprate, combined with 6 pieces of loot for 25 versus 2 for 10. It doesnt matter one bit if little Timmy waits 1001 boss kills to get the piece of loot he wants.

The larger picture across 25 mans will reflect the increased drop rates, and it will be reflected in the relative heal/tank/dps potential of the average 25 man raider as time goes on - particularly once a new tier comes out.


Then why arent there more 25 mans, if all people care about is loot? And they're so 'easy' to get loot in?


I don't recall saying either of those things. I simply told you that 25 mans would have increased gear saturation. You added the emotional pleas to it, for some unknown reason. People care about many things - rewards, convenience, fun, challenge. A raid has to strike a good balance between those things for people to want to do it. Currently, 25s don't have a good balance.

People don't raid 25s because they are an organizational nightmare, and many servers simply don't have the population to support 25s thanks to Blizzard's stubborn refusal to merge low pop servers. Once a guild has split into 10s because of these organizational issues, it is highly unlikely to reform as a 25 again.
Edited by Niia on 1/23/2013 4:22 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
15265
01/23/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Niia
I simply told you that 25 mans would have increased gear saturation


Would they really though? Do your statistics account for the fact that there are less 25 mans than 10 mans?
Community Manager
It is still a chance. There will be cases where a 10-player raid will have more Thunderforged items than a 25-player raid.
90 Troll Warlock
10155
Here's a thought for everyone complaining about this, play the game how you want to play the game. Whether it be 10 or 25 man raids, what other people are doing with their game time doesn't matter or affect what you and your guild choose to do. In the words of a great philosopher "Life's a garden, dig it" - Joe Dirt.
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