01/20/2013 09:54 PMHere's another question though: if your mana were low towards the end of the fight and if you had two groups at half health, would you use a Glyphed CoH on cooldown either? It certainly isn't as efficient as PoH and also doesn't have the chance to proc DI.
Posted by Ceddya
Depends on the situation, but I don't glyph CoH. I'm in a 10 man, and my mana is tight enough as it is (it just seems a LOT tighter as Holy than as Disc) that when I am Holy, it isn't worth it. The times that I am Holy most often involve me with people who aren't in a single party, so CoH is a lifesaver. It's absolutely worth using on CD if there is raid-wide damage, even if my mana is low, and especially if I'm moving.
I should add that we don't have any pets in our raid (no Hunter or Lock), so there's no chance of the CoH getting consumed by a pet.
My main argument wasn't whether they play the same role in raids. The main point is that I'm using these spells with roughly the same frequency and thus they both function as fillers between our PoH casts. This was the counter argument to the fact that Disc didn't have such fillers and as such only relies on PoH.
I would say that I use Penance almost on CD, but I only use CoH on CD if there is raid-wide damage, or if I am moving and I need to heal someone more than a Renew.
Regardless, on fights with heavy damage like H-Garalon/Will, you are essentially using 5 casts per min in order to get the 5 stack AA for SS, and this is roughly the same frequency with which you use CoH too.
I can't speak to either fight, but I find that on the normal encounters of each, I do more Atonement healing than I do PoH. I generally use PoH exclusively to SS the raid on GAralon, as it is not very good at bursting people up, and that's going to be the only time I'm hitting my AA button. On N Will, I am exclusively tank healing, with our Druid responsible for raid damage beyond some emergency bubbles, so I may never actually use SS or PoH during the encounter, as it is not enough to keep a tank up who is taking spike damage.
Or, a better example. Assuming 10% haste, within each min on a fight with constant damage:
As Holy, I am casting ideally 7 CoHs and 6 PoMs for a total of 13 casts, taking up a total of 17.7 seconds
As Disc, I am casting 4 Penances and 1 HF to get 5 stacks of Evangalism, together with 4 casts of PW:S to proc Raptures and 2 PoMs (naturally, Disc does not cast it as often as Holy). This takes up a total of 16.9 seconds.
And if you're me, you're casting PoM on CD if there is raid damage (or just to put it on the tanks), and smiting near-exclusively outside of PW: Shield on the tanks.
Essentially, these are the main fillers for each spec give or take. As most of our non-filler time is spent on casting PoH, I don't think it's a stretch to claim that Holy does have similar reliance on PoH as Disc. The main reasons Holy does not feel as PoH-spammy as Disc is because it isn't able to DA stack, it doesn't rely on SS/PoH as its CD and its tighter mana restrictions means that there is more downtime for Holy.
I do agree with you that Holy is as dependent/nearly as dependent on PoH as Disc when their other spells are on CD
. The difference is, when I'm in Holy, I have a CoH every 4 seconds (6 in Yellow Sanc), and it never seems like a bad choice to use it (except, again, maybe when I'm in Yellow Sanc). Also, it feels like PoH doesn't bring as big of a benefit, since there is no DA tacked onto the end when I'm Holy. Although, I really should value Echo of Light more, as when I have been Holy for progression, it has almost always been near-fully consumed.