Regarding what GC just said in a Q&A

90 Blood Elf Paladin
17115
Please consider making Divine purpose baseline. Even if it has a lower proc chance it would help sustained damage.

We heard from a lot of paladins who hated DP. A talent seemed like a good solution.

no paladin in their right mind would complain about divine purpose, a free 3 paladin proc come on?

They did. It wasn't the free power -- it was the unprecitability of the rotation.

Really? Well it's unpredictable right now as it is... Why do we even have it as a talent then? Does GC literally not care about Paladins? I am not qqing but his response there seems highly ignorant.

If it was made baseline and they introduced a new talent into the fifth tier taking it's place I can say with full assurance that any Paladin that even knows the slightest about the game will not complain imo. TV takes the lead in a Paladins rotation and if this talent was baseline it would not change the Paladins rotation, it procs and you either use TV or refresh Inq, I don't see a problem here. It would work as it currently does if a Paladin takes it as a talent.

I don't even play Ret often, but this answer really caught my eye. If any Rets that know more than I as to why GC would answer that question like that have anything to say, i'm all ears.
Edited by Codez on 1/20/2013 4:16 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19215
GC answered the question that way because that is actually what was complained about, people weren't complaining for the reason you seem to think they were.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
I wish it was baseline, but I can see why it isn't.
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90 Tauren Paladin
19560
If you check pally thread, a lot of casual rets cry about not wanting our rotation to be harder(lol) anytime you mention DP being baseline you get like 1 yes to 8 nos. Making DP baseline would overall be the best thing for ret sustaining dps while hardly touching the burst. Even more so with the next tier set, it would be amazing. But has you can see with the 10 threads asking Inq to be easier, I doubt DP would go over well lol
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17115
Do you have a link as to how they were complaining then? Or can you enlighten me please, Cayse. Thanks.
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90 Tauren Paladin
19560
It's post here and there, a lot of points being it will make ret too proc depended or our rotation would be so complex

I made a thread in damage dealing, post your thoughts in it
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7709581218
Edited by Thermadin on 1/20/2013 5:01 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19215
You quoted what they were complaining about, that is what they were complaining about, just not in the way you are reading it. They were complaining about the randomness, exactly as GC said.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
People have bad memories of Cataclysm pre-2T13 where our rotation depended on Divine Purpose to be even remotely fluid. Bad memories cause an emotional response, and emotional responses tend cause people to react in ways that are the opposite of logical.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17115
I agree with your thread Thermadin. Having it baseline would do all of what you said.

And Cayse, I don't think I read anything wrong, they clearly state about the talent being baseline, in which my response was exactly what I made this thread about. Random or not having it baseline would be a DPS increase for sustained dps while still giving Paladins the burst to compete with other Classes burst capabilities. I am not sure how they would intertwine having DP procs with HA, but across the board it would probably prove to fix Ret's sustained DPS.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19215
Random or not? People didn't like it because of the random. That is why it was made a talent, why it's not baseline. How you get ignorance of GC hating paladins out of that is bizarre.
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90 Human Paladin
5785
Where is this q&a at?
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90 Tauren Paladin
8220
Where is this q&a at?

It was a couple of comments on GC's Twitter.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17115
Right, but what you are failing to see is that right now it's either burst dps or random dps, if we get rid of having to choose between the two and making DP baseline, the random of DP, while still existing is far less trivial to the outcome. I didn't mean to offend you, bro. Maybe me saying him hating Paladins was a bit harsh, but he should not overlook what the communities thoughts on it are. The game has changed a lot since Cata and Keten is right, people need to adjust.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19215
Not overlooking what the communities thoughts are is why it was removed from baseline but made a talent; If you liked it, you can still have it. If you didn't, you no longer have to suffer with it.

Making it baseline would be overlooking all the people who didn't like it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7845
The reason I hate DP is because of its effect in the past. I don't want to pray to the RNG gods to give me a decent amount of procs just so I can pull good numbers compared to the other rets, it makes a big chunk of our damage based of pure luck. Not a good design imo.
Edited by Zoaxlis on 1/20/2013 5:53 PM PST
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90 Tauren Paladin
19560
What people tend to forget is that, in Cata we only had 2 HP generators and 3hp, making a DP proc very much needed. Now we have 3HP generators, scaled with haste, and a pool of 5 HP. This would allow DP proc% to not feel like it's needed or else you aren't gonna pull the numbers. The idea of DP is a lot more flexible now than it was in cata. Overall from Cata to MoP we have so much more HP to use as a resource that a free finisher wouldn't cause issues.

01/20/2013 05:46 PMPosted by Cayse
Making it baseline would be overlooking all the people who didn't like it.


I didn't like the idea of Divine Storm becoming a finisher, but I got over it pretty quick. classes need changes every now-n-then. You get used to them, for better or for worse. /nerfbatisntfunbro
remember that time when freedom got you out of stuns? back then you would be like wowow they nerf it and took it away from me so BS, now it's haha what an OP thing
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17115
01/20/2013 05:46 PMPosted by Cayse
Making it baseline would be overlooking all the people who didn't like it.


Exactly. "Didn't". The game design and how HP generation/storage works now is much different than it was when people weren't comfortable using DP as a reliable DPS talent.

A lot of Classes rely on procs to do "better" DPS, but procs should not be the foundation on which your class does competitive DPS or not, which what haunted a lot of Paladins with the Cata DP model, and even the current one if specced into it to an extent.

There will always be nay-sayers and "the sky is falling" types, but regardless, many decisions made by Blizzard has drawn these crowds regardless of how the changes ended up effecting the class. I think that making DP baseline will be honestly one of the best changes Blizzard could do to help Rets sustained DPS, a problem that Ret has faced for way too long.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9080
There will always be nay-sayers and "the sky is falling" types,


Does GC literally not care about Paladins?


Giggity.
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90 Human Paladin
13525
I didn't like it in Cataclysm, but as others have pointed out, that was because it was an integral part of our dps in Cataclysm. Now that we have sufficient, reliable hopo generators and the ability to store up to 5 hopo, the talent serves a completely different role.

I use DP in my PvP set-up, and have tried it extensively in PvE, even though it's a dps loss there. It now feels like it always should have: it's fun when it procs, and it does indeed make our overall dps less spiky. I strongly feel it should be made baseline again.
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90 Human Paladin
13525
Not overlooking what the communities thoughts are is why it was removed from baseline but made a talent; If you liked it, you can still have it. If you didn't, you no longer have to suffer with it.

Making it baseline would be overlooking all the people who didn't like it.


You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that the way we generate holy power is completely different now. I didn't like it before. I do now. You no longer feel crippled when you get unlucky on procs, but you feel great when you get a lucky streak.
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