Regarding what GC just said in a Q&A

90 Human Paladin
6305
01/20/2013 04:06 PMPosted by Codez
Really? Well it's unpredictable right now as it is... Why do we even have it as a talent then? Does GC literally not care about Paladins? I am not qqing but his response there seems highly ignorant.


You are not listening. He is saying that a good amount of paladins don't LIKE reacting off a proc because it screws with what they perceive as a comfortable rotation, so making it a choice for players is a good compromise. It is not unpredictable if you choose HA or Sanctified Wrath.

Making it baseline forces ALL rets to always play proc rotations. You are falling back into pre-mop thinking that that what ONE person perceives as the most fun or effective must be the way everybody should play. The MOP talent design is about choice, and giving the majority of players the option to play according to their own playstyle without significantly affecting their performance.

Statements like "I can say with full assurance that any Paladin that even knows the slightest about the game will not complain," seems to tell me you are not interested in rational debate. You are passive-aggressively saying anybody that dares disagree with you is automatically a derp and whose opinion shouldn't count. Go to Thermadin's thread if you want to have a good discussion on DP baseline.
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People fear Divine Purpose because of what happened in the past. It either was based off your Mastery or based off of complete RNG (Mastery was still RNG, but you could add more of a percentage to it obviously). While I like some minor RNG (i.e. Art of War), I'm also a bit more of a fan of reliance. Hence, why I like it as a talent option for the occasion that I want some RNG in my playstyle and can opt out of it.

I feel, especially now, Divine Purpose would just make us even more clunky than before. With all our HoPo generators, having to balance Inquisition since Cata, etc, it just combines to a gigantic clusterbomb. Even back in Cata Divine Purpose was a PITA sometimes during burst phases.
Edited by Bassm on 1/22/2013 1:35 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/22/2013 01:18 PMPosted by Covahredro
You shouldn't assume that would be the case, in fact because ret dps is one of the lowest, I'd be assuming the opposite.


Except its not, and if it was made baseline, yes we would be re-balanced around having it baseline instead of a bonus talent.
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/22/2013 01:37 PMPosted by Covahredro
So your saying rets dps as of now is fine(mage like) and this would push it over and thus require adjustments Mhmm?


Of course you use the most blown out of proportion dps to try to make your point, not understanding that mages are higher than they wanted them to be and were nerfed (fire).

Ret DPS is fine now. It doesnt need another random element balanced into it.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9935
01/22/2013 01:52 PMPosted by Covahredro
mages are higher than they wanted them to be and were nerfed (fire).


Fire? I'm pretty sure fire is the lowest of the three?, expect in AoE situations.

Ret DPS is fine now. It doesnt need another random element balanced into it.


Well there you said it, so absolutely no dmg buffs, not even to sustained, rets fine as is?.


yeah
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/22/2013 01:52 PMPosted by Covahredro
Fire? I'm pretty sure fire is the lowest of the three?, expect in AoE situations.


You seriously need some reading comprehension. Fire was blowing everyone out of the water in DPS, they nerfed it.

01/22/2013 01:52 PMPosted by Covahredro
Well there you said it, so absolutely no dmg buffs, not even to sustained, rets fine as is?.


Tell me, how a random proc would help you do more damage when you needed it? Spec into DP if you like it so much, but remember you picked the random talent when it doesnt proc when your could have killing blow, turned into a death for you.
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100 Pandaren Monk
11760
Everyone was complaining about DP when it was our mastery in cata, because it was a horrible idea to have DP as mastery (where more mastery meant more chance it will proc). It made ret feel really weird.

Having more HP generators and being able to go up to 5 hp, DP wouldn't be too bad to have beseline.

I wouldn't mind it now as a baseline 10% chance on autos or something (like a KM proc). Ret's rotation is pretty simple, I wouldn't mind having another proc.
Edited by Rumble on 1/22/2013 2:11 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20970
01/22/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
Tell me, how a random proc would help you do more damage when you needed it? Spec into DP if you like it so much, but remember you picked the random talent when it doesnt proc when your could have killing blow, turned into a death for you.


You seem to forget that this is MoP and not Cata. You seem to forget that getting HP now is A LOT easier than it was in Cata. We have a 5HP at our finger tips, a maximum of 3 being used at once, a free finisher wouldn't make the o so simple spec too heavy on RNG.

DP would give us just a bit of help keeping our sustaining damage better without overdoing our burst

stop acting like our spec is hard to play, and having a proc would destroy our rotation
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100 Human Paladin
16205
You seem to forget that this is MoP and not Cata. You seem to forget that getting HP now is A LOT easier than it was in Cata. We have a 5HP at our finger tips, a maximum of 3 being used at once, a free finisher wouldn't make the o so simple spec too heavy on RNG.

DP would give us just a bit of help keeping our sustaining damage better without overdoing our burst


The reasons you lined out, are exactly why we dont need DP anymore baseline, we have a fluid rotation, we can get holy power easliy, we dont need a random proc to fill our gaps in rotation that we had in cata.

How does a random proc help sustained, honestly? It could be a 5% increase if the stars align and it procs at a decent rate. But if it doesnt, if the other half of "random chance' comes into play, and it barely procs if at all (which can happen) and it lowers our dps or has no change to it, because if they make it baseline again, you can be sure that they'll factor it in to our baseline dps, and it will be lower without the proc.

01/22/2013 02:17 PMPosted by Thermadin
stop acting like our spec is hard to play, and having a proc would destroy our rotation


I never said anything in the slightest, I've never said our spec is hard to play nor would it destroy the rotation. I'm saying that I personally dont want any more RNG other than exorcism to affect my base dps and playstyle, and I'm not alone in that mindset. I like being in control of my dps, opposed to my potential DPS being at the mercy of a Proc like DP.

DP wont magically 'fix' any problems with our spec for PVP or PVE.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20970
01/22/2013 02:22 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
How does a random proc help sustained, honestly?

gear scaling next tier. 4p next tier. All them extra holy TV and HoL damage hmmmm i wonder

its hard to make a discussion on damage to others who doesn't try to min/max their damage D:
Edited by Thermadin on 1/22/2013 2:44 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/22/2013 02:35 PMPosted by Thermadin
gear scaling next tier. 4p next tier. All them extra holy TV and HoL damage hmmmm i wonder


For one tier, just because it happens to be a massive boost for TV, what about every other teir that will come after that.

01/22/2013 02:35 PMPosted by Thermadin
its hard to make a discussion on damage to others who doesn't try to min/max their damage D:


And this is supposed to mean what exactly?

01/22/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Covahredro
Better to have a chance at all times, than an easily countered one once every 2mins.


Be less predictable?
Edited by Paladinchaz on 1/22/2013 2:50 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20970
01/22/2013 02:49 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
For one tier, just because it happens to be a massive boost for TV, what about every other teir that will come after that.

well not just 1 tier, DP would scale with each new set of gear, just from mastery and weapon damage alone

01/22/2013 02:49 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
And this is supposed to mean what exactly?

well let's be honest. Most of the people posting their thoughts are players who only do BGs or LFR, even normals.(That's not me trying to be elitist jerk, just if you're not trying progression they're isn't a need to push yourself to be a better player)
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100 Human Paladin
16205
01/22/2013 03:00 PMPosted by Thermadin
well not just 1 tier, DP would scale with each new set of gear, just from mastery and weapon damage alone


It would be scaling at the rate that our gear is, like everyone else. A 40% proc is still a 40% proc regardless of how hard it hits. Sure itll get better with gear, but so will everyone else.

01/22/2013 03:00 PMPosted by Thermadin
well let's be honest. Most of the people posting their thoughts are players who only do BGs or LFR, even normals.(That's not me trying to be elitist jerk, just if you're not trying progression they're isn't a need to push yourself to be a better player)


Sorry my guild just started heroic modes?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
01/22/2013 03:00 PMPosted by Thermadin
And this is supposed to mean what exactly?

well let's be honest. Most of the people posting their thoughts are players who only do BGs or LFR, even normals.(That's not me trying to be elitist jerk, just if you're not trying progression they're isn't a need to push yourself to be a better player)


Have you even bothered to look at how far progressed Chaz is? 'Cause, seriously, you're just making yourself look like a moron with a comment like that.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20970
01/22/2013 03:04 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
Have you even bothered to look at how far progressed Chaz is? 'Cause, seriously, you're just making yourself look like a moron with a comment like that.

I uh, when did I call him out O.o

btw im on an RP server, thats like, idiot player x5+goldshire
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
I uh, when did I call him out O.o


01/22/2013 02:35 PMPosted by Thermadin
How does a random proc help sustained, honestly?

gear scaling next tier. 4p next tier. All them extra holy TV and HoL damage hmmmm i wonder

its hard to make a discussion on damage to others who doesn't try to min/max their damage D:


Seems like you're calling him out there.
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