Let us see how many bosses are dead already..

75 Human Hunter
9265

you did not waste your time, since you would have had to wait the same amount of time for someone ELSE to help clear that in-progress instance if you did not help in order to make room for the fresh instance YOU want - so, since you helped clear the in-progress instance, you got 45 valor, if you did not help, you would have sat in the queue for that time with no valor...


Well, except that you could have been out doing dailies or doing a gathering profession while you waited for your fresh run to pop. Dailies, which, btw ... do give valor.
you can do dailies while in queue already, and then help clear a partial if it pops because you need that boss anyway, and then go back to doing dailies while in queue for the rest of the bosses you need...
Edited by Jola on 1/25/2013 11:45 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
13730
01/25/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Ninetales
Healers are the problem in long queue times and one of the very large problems there is that alt-spec gear isn't available to them if they queue as healers.


bring that call to arms in LFR (and improve its chances to drop mounts etc) and you will get healers in for sure.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13265
01/25/2013 11:32 AMPosted by Bojay
you're saying I'm guaranteed a fresh run after I sit in queue for 45 more minutes


No. You are just given priority for a fresh run. There's still a mathematical chance you could get put into another partial run. I've never seen it, but it's still a remote possibility.

But the alternatives are:
Sit in the queue for 45 minutes, have a partial run pop, refuse it, and start the 45 minute wait all over or,
Sit in the queue for 45 minutes, get a fresh run to pop, kill a few bosses and then stare at the last boss indefinitely because the 5 people who were only trying to get a drop off Elegon or Feng dropped and everyone in the queue keeps refusing to "waste their 45 minutes in the queue" to join your partially completed run.
Edited by Ganlon on 1/25/2013 11:48 AM PST
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100 Pandaren Rogue
19235
Let's say you get queued into a group at 2/3.

Scenario 1: You can see on the queue pop that the group is 2/3. You cancel the queue, and have to queue a second time hoping for a fresh run. Two queues minimum, or more if you keep getting that same 2/3 (likely if you're a tank or healer).

Scenario 2: You can't see it, or you join anyway. You down the last boss, get your loot/failbag and 90 valor points. You queue a second time, most likely get a fresh run (because it prioritizes fresh runs if you've gotten your 90 valor), and kill the first two bosses. Two queues, unless you're really unlucky.

So you're queuing the same amount of time either way. The second option also gives you the choice to continue on and repeat the third boss for an extra 45 valor points, which takes about 10 minutes of extra time.

Also this drastically cuts down on the amount of partial runs you see in the first place, since more people are actually taking such queues. And when you happen to be in a run where the tanks and healers bail after the second boss you're not waiting 30 minutes for replacements anymore.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5835
Ok I just have to point out its really annoying when I queue up for Terrace of the Endless Spring and immediately see it has an average queue time of 40 - 50 minutes and then after an hour of waiting i'm put into a group that's already on Sha. So that was about an hour for a boss.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
18685
If you enter and complete a partial clear you will be given priority for a fresh run the next time you enter the queue, letting you pick up any missed bosses. The 45 Valor for completing that run too isn't a bad deal, either.


This presupposes that I have the extra time to actually run two LFRs per week... I don't. If I decide to queue for LRD (which I no longer do), I want to do a fresh run, period. In terms of time actually in the raid, killing the last boss and then the first two bosses doesn't really take any more or less time than just killing them in order. In the first case, you can stay on to kill the last boss a second time if the valor is worth it to you, otherwise you can leave after the first two bosses.

An extra 45 valor for something that I don't even have time to do won't change anything.


So...what are you suggesting? Because being able to see the number of bosses downed doesn't make it any faster to get a fresh run. You have to wait in line again if you refuse the partial run.

An option to only ever receive fresh runs won't make it any faster, either. Especially if people leave in the middle of the run and it takes 30 minutes to replace them because everyone is using the fresh run only option.

The only way to make overall queuing time lower is to somehow get more people queuing as healers, since they are usually the limiting factor. The visibility of how many bosses are left just prevents people from making the situation worse with queue fishing, for themselves and others.
Edited by Asthas on 1/25/2013 11:52 AM PST
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100 Undead Death Knight
8545
As a dps you have up to an hour q time to even get into lfr and then I WISH lfr only lasted 15 minutes per section.

Just on a per boss time it takes about 6 minutes per boss. 3-4 bosses so 18-24 minutes just to kill the bosses. Include the prep time and trash which is another 10-15 minutes.

If you have any wipes this adds another 10 minutes per wipe as peeps bail the Q refills and another prep.

So a 3 boss LFR with one wipe averages about 35-40 minutes plus your 25 minute q time to get in. Depending on time of day/week your q time to get in may be up to an hour. Of course sometimes you have a good day with no wipes and others you get more than one wipe.

God forbid you are a fresh 90 with crap gear and get booted for low heals/dps after a wipe and have to start over again. Charts are everything in LFR after a wipe and once a vote to kick gets started, the mob mentality will almost always confirm the kick.

Also unaccounted for are the times when 1-2 healers immediately quit upon entry because they don't need a partial or full LFR for whatever reason and waiting for replacement healers can take up to 10 minutes as well.

45 valor is not very much motivation for the time involved. Not for anyone q'ing as dps without a healer/tank q'ing with them. Healer/tanks still have the same raid time but have q times of instant to 5 minutes.

Blue poster may be playing at peak times generally. I play off peak quite often where the q times get long.
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75 Human Hunter
9265
So...what are you suggesting? Because being able to see the number of bosses downed doesn't make it any faster to get a fresh run. You have to wait in line again if you refuse the partial run.


And that's why I don't run LFR at all... I don't have time and the current queue system is broken.
getting the offer to join a partial run doesnt mean the system is broken, it means the system needs help to clear out the partial runs to make room to create more fresh runs

if you do not want to help clear them out, thats your call, but they still need help to be cleared out and you would still have to sit in the queues until they are cleared out if you dont help clear them out...
Edited by Jola on 1/25/2013 11:57 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12570
Oh boy 45 valor. For wasting probably an hour of our time? Not including the time wasted for the second queue and raid.

Anyone else remember when you could get 100 Valor by just doing a heroic? And you could do it 7 times a week whenever you wanted? Not having to resign to logging onto the game every day like a 2nd job?

Yeah those were the days...
Coming from a level 40, this is sure to get Blizzard's attention. Why do people even post on alts if their goal is to be taken seriously? You even have a decent level 90 showing up on your character list. It looks like you used to post on him, but you started trolling on low level alts about 2 years ago. Pretty pathetic.
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90 Human Priest
13730
let us queue for individual bosses instead blizz.

jk.
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90 Goblin Priest
7605
I would go for it even when it came up as 2/3 of the bosses killed and would then que again for it and going in as a healer was easy and quick because half the time a healer was what was needed so I do it just for the quick times and the practice.

I did however hate coming in with piles of skeletons everywhere but I would stay and see what happened. Most of the time it would finish up wihout any problems and yes there were the few times I would get in and after 2 wipes on the last boss I left to start agian.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
18685
As a dps you have up to an hour q time to even get into lfr and then I WISH lfr only lasted 15 minutes per section.

Just on a per boss time it takes about 6 minutes per boss. 3-4 bosses so 18-24 minutes just to kill the bosses. Include the prep time and trash which is another 10-15 minutes.

If you have any wipes this adds another 10 minutes per wipe as peeps bail the Q refills and another prep.

So a 3 boss LFR with one wipe averages about 35-40 minutes plus your 25 minute q time to get in. Depending on time of day/week your q time to get in may be up to an hour. Of course sometimes you have a good day with no wipes and others you get more than one wipe.

God forbid you are a fresh 90 with crap gear and get booted for low heals/dps after a wipe and have to start over again. Charts are everything in LFR after a wipe and once a vote to kick gets started, the mob mentality will almost always confirm the kick.

Also unaccounted for are the times when 1-2 healers immediately quit upon entry because they don't need a partial or full LFR for whatever reason and waiting for replacement healers can take up to 10 minutes as well.

45 valor is not very much motivation for the time involved. Not for anyone q'ing as dps without a healer/tank q'ing with them. Healer/tanks still have the same raid time but have q times of instant to 5 minutes.

Blue poster may be playing at peak times generally. I play off peak quite often where the q times get long.


You misunderstand the point. The point is that if you take a partial run, then requeue to get a fresh run for the other bosses, the time cost of the valor for the second run is the time it takes to finish the second run AFTER you get the bosses you needed. So something like 15 minutes in your example, if you got a 2/3 the first time.

If you need loot from the bosses, you would pay the queue time regardless of whether LFR awarded valor at all. It doesn't factor into the decision of, "ok, I killed the bosses I need. Do I stay for the rest or leave?" At that point, you are looking at the time needed to finish the rest of the run versus the valor gain and weighing the two, the time you've already had to spend doesn't factor into that decision.
Edited by Asthas on 1/25/2013 11:59 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
6805
01/25/2013 11:54 AMPosted by Lometos
You even have a decent level 90 showing up on your character list. It looks like you used to post on him, but you started trolling on low level alts about 2 years ago. Pretty pathetic.


Not trying to jump into the middle of this.....but you do realize that you took the time out of your day to "investigate" this guy just so you could try to invalidate his post and call him pathetic without actually refuting any of his points? Pot..kettle...so on and so forth.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6470
01/25/2013 11:43 AMPosted by Ninetales
Healers are the problem in long queue times and one of the very large problems there is that alt-spec gear isn't available to them if they queue as healers. So right now you have lots main spec healers that want to go into LFR to gear their offspecs but are unable to do so as a role that will help keep the queues moving.


+1

Healer is my preferred role. If I could queue as a healer for LFR but get DPS gear instead, I would. As it stands I'm trying to gear up my Enh spec so I have to queue as DPS, but I always notice that healers are the last role to be filled, meaning the whole raid is waiting on healers in order for that queue to pop.

It kind of drives me nuts to queue as DPS (when I would prefer to heal) so I can wait for LFR to find six healers when I could BE one of those six healers and make the queue shorter for everyone else if there was somehow an option for me to get my off-spec gear as drops instead of main-spec.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
7145
01/25/2013 11:40 AMPosted by Badbeatbrann


Sure, and if we just let people pick and choose raids to join there could be 24 other people dropping group to wait in queue again. There are a few things you can do in the game all by yourself that don't involve other players, and we can try to make sure those really work as a single player experience. Raiding just can't be one of them.

And, taking a step back, LFR continues to offer an exceptional experience and reward for time invested value versus it not existing.

I was under the impression the progressions what made invisible to make queue times shorter. While dps queues for certain LFRs seem lower, there are 1 hour queues still.
I do not see how it hurts to show that progression. No matter how many different other things you can do while waiting..


Wow your joking right? LFR should be called "Gold Finder" So you wait an hour in que, to get stuck on the last boss, to get no loot. Then have to turn around and do it all over again? No thanks. I agree please let it be our choice. 45 valor? Seriously? We are supposed to be incouraged by this when a lot of the gear is over 2200 valor? I am more than frustrated with this whole thing. Honestly if my subscription had not already come out this month I would have canceled already.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10370
Wow, do you people really have nothing else to do while you wait in queue? Go do pet battles, or daily quests, or grab achievements you're missing. Stop just afking in a city waiting on your queue. As a healer with short queues, it gets annoying having a sub 3 minute queue because I can't multitask. If I want to do LFR, I'm going to do it -- I can't do dailies while I wait. DPS have it easy, 2 birds with 1 stone.

And showing how many bosses are defeated does **NOTHING** to solve the queue issue. You'd still have to deny the 3/4 LFR queue and requeue anyway. Sure, now you get the debuff, but I'd put a lot of money down the people really complaining about this have multiple alts they're trying to run LFR on anyway. Go do it on another character. Or better yet, finish the queue, requeue and get a fresh queue.

A sincere thank you from someone who always sticks out LFR runs and used to have to deal with idiot tanks that would queue and reject the LFR queue over and over again while 24 people waited in raid for 1 tank to accept the queue.

This is a good change, people just like arguing.
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