Let us see how many bosses are dead already..

100 Pandaren Monk
12685
01/25/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Bashiok
cat peed on foot

cat on fire etc etc
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90 Worgen Druid
7260
Bashiok

I VERY VERY much disagree with your statement "45 valor for one boss" is an effective return. About 90% of the time I get in on a 2/3 raid the floor is already covered in skeletons and it will take a couple of tries to down the boss.

IMHO the ONLY satisfactory solution would be on downing the boss you automatically get a chance for loot from every boss already dead. I know this is never going to happen, but everything else is only a very very small consolation price, especially for DPS and Tanks and their 45min queue times!
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90 Tauren Warrior
0
Oh boy 45 valor. For wasting probably an hour of our time? Not including the time wasted for the second queue and raid.

Anyone else remember when you could get 100 Valor by just doing a heroic? And you could do it 7 times a week whenever you wanted? Not having to resign to logging onto the game every day like a 2nd job?

Yeah those were the days...


Ah yes, the expansion of choice, removing the choice of doing your 7 heroics a week for bonus valor whenever you wanted.
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90 Troll Shaman
11185
01/25/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Bashiok
(drops, wipes, wife came home, cat peed on foot, etc.).


Cat peed on foot. I'm going to use that as the default excuse to go AFK now. lol
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100 Draenei Paladin
14035
01/25/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Bashiok
The point I was shooting for is this: if I choose to take part in PvE content via LFR I don't want to have to run multiple instances (of the same instance) just to see each and every boss, most importantly by sitting in at least two very long DPS queues.


Absolutely. We don't want for you to run the same instance multiple times either. We'd be happy to entertain ideas for how we can put a group of 25 strangers together, who all have different goals, expectations, and time constraints, and see each of them remain until the end regardless of anything else that happens in the raid or in their life (drops, wipes, wife came home, cat peed on foot, etc.).

Ok... up until now I have been angry with the fact that I couldn't choose to join a fresh LFR... you've changed my mind with logic and stuff...

thx...
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90 Orc Shaman
6715
01/25/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Bashiok
Absolutely. We don't want for you to run the same instance multiple times either. We'd be happy to entertain ideas for how we can put a group of 25 strangers together, who all have different goals, expectations, and time constraints, and see each of them remain until the end regardless of anything else that happens in the raid or in their life (drops, wipes, wife came home, cat peed on foot, etc.).


Perhaps offer a better VP award for in-progress runs would solve this problem, while still allowing players the choice of accepting an in-progress queue. It might even make in-progress desirable!
(say a 50% bonus per dead boss; since most raids are 3-4 boss chunks it wouldn't get that out of hand and would help people who helped an in-progress run cap their valor that much faster.

Just a thought.
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01/25/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Bashiok
This presupposes that I have the extra time to actually run two LFRs per week of the same instance... I don't (2+ hours of queue = no). If I decide to queue for LFR (which I no longer do), I want to do a fresh run, period.


And I believe you presuppose you're the only person playing. ;)
Bashiok, you know how much I love watching you work and running LFR, but I've got Azeroth's 500th anniversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder, and Guilder to frame for it; I'm swamped.


Well I appreciate the quote, at least. But, and don't take this the wrong way, think back to a time not-that-long-ago before LFR existed. How much raid content were you seeing then, how far had you progressed, and what was the time investment? I'm not saying we don't want LFR to be a smooth and pleasant experience, or be accessible, but it's putting 25 people together to let them see, experience, and even get awesome items from end-game content. That is pretty amazing. Automated game systems can only do so much to ensure it's a pleasant experience on the personal terms and whims for every single person.


It saddens me to read That a person does have complaints about a feature that was intended for people that don't normaly raid to see content!

Like I said it was not intended to gear a toon so the player can get an edge on normal raid. The players made it into that.

What I would love to know from every one else is Why is it that if the function of raid finder was so that people get to see raid content should anyone ever demand any feature change because it inconvenience their gear grinding?

Isn't that exploiting the game to your advantage?
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100 Dwarf Hunter
16810
01/25/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Bashiok
Oh boy 45 valor. For wasting probably an hour of our time? Not including the time wasted for the second queue and raid.


I generally find I'm in a 2/3 partial, and when I re-queue to pick up those first two bosses it does not take an hour to down the final boss. Is it taking you an hour to kill a boss?

45 valor for about 15 minutes more of my time is pretty efficient.


Funny you say 15 mins que when I have been stuck in 1 hour and 26 min ques like this week for last raid then get thrown into last boss and have to reque again and wait on avg another hour or so to get the first bosses...you really screwing over DPS with this set up over and over...I get on my healer and boom 1 min que over and over but not this hunter...again more wasted time for dps....
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18 Undead Rogue
60
Posted by Bashiok

he was referring to the hour long queue - he had to queue TWICE for an hour each time to kill all bosses once instead of queue ONCE for an hour to kill all bosses once

Sure, and if we just let people pick and choose raids to join there could be 24 other people dropping group to wait in queue again. There are a few things you can do in the game all by yourself that don't involve other players, and we can try to make sure those really work as a single player experience. Raiding just can't be one of them.

And, taking a step back, LFR continues to offer an exceptional experience and reward for time invested value versus it not existing.


Oh Please tell me how i should play the game...some more please.
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100 Troll Druid
22340
How about making use of the call to arms feature? Provide queueing options - select to either queue for a fresh instance only, or to queue for whatever is 'most needed' (add more options if so desired). Then players that need to run the entire instance are able to indicate as such, and those of us who really only want the last boss, or valor, or a chance at a pet, or to test our UI, or whatever else, are able to fill in as needed.

Because for *every player out there that gets disappointed at coming in on the last boss there is another out there that is disappointed when we come in at the start of the instance.

*not meant literally
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90 Tauren Shaman
0
01/25/2013 11:32 AMPosted by Bojay
If you enter and complete a partial clear you will be given priority for a fresh run the next time you enter the queue, letting you pick up any missed bosses. The 45 Valor for completing that run too isn't a bad deal, either.


So...if I sit in queue for 45 minutes...you're saying I'm guaranteed a fresh run after I sit in queue for 45 more minutes? 90 minutes of queue to get 1 fresh run?
Gee...thanks. :-(


The problem is that the people in this thread are only considering the negatives. Does queuing twice suck? Yes. Does having the entire LFR disband due to an inability to get more people suck, which is what seemed to happen often before this change was implemented? Yes.

The old system did not guarantee fresh runs either, so you could get 2/3s endlessly. I much prefer the new system. On average, the time invested is way lower.
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90 Troll Warlock
7565
I actually would prefer to enter some of these as a partial, as I'm getting to the point where there's not much gear left for me (or the gear that's left isn't really worth it to me) and I would prefer to just slide in on the last boss and collect my valor in the process of capping it.
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
11185
Let me ask this: If you queue for LFR, and you see that it's 2/3 complete and you decline and requeue - what's the difference between waiting for the requeue to pop (where you MIGHT get another 2/3) and re-q'ing after killing the one boss with an almost guaranteed fresh run?

In other words, if you decline without killing that last boss, you still have to requeue and wait for the same amount of time that you would if you had accepted - except there's no guarantee that you won't get ANOTHER in progress run.
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85 Troll Hunter
7360
Q: First, what is the stated goal for LFR?

A: Get people to see the endgame content they otherwise would not see.

Q: What other things has LFR evolved into?

A: 1. A way to get valor
2. A way to gear characters
3. A gear progression system for non-raiders

Q: What is the expectation of the OP?

A: To be able to complete all the LFRs on a single run (each).

Q: Given the current system and technical limitations, is that expectation realistic?

A: While improvements could be made, it's probably not realistic in any way (assuming that blizzard designs the system to be fair to all players, and doesn't rig it for the OP)

Q: What other improvements might be made to reduce Que times?

A: 1. Call to Arms
2. Punish players for leaving early (deserter debuff - perhaps duration depends on when they leave)
3. Reward players for a second run (so they don't drop early). Perhaps give the 90 valor on the second full run as well (dropping to 45 thereafter).
4. Go to their house and tell their mom on them if they leave early.
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90 Undead Rogue
12615
So....the solution to have less fragmented raids is to get more players saved to fragmented raids? So they have to re-queue to get the bosses they've skipped and then drop that group........

DOESN'T THIS JUST PERPETUATE THE PROBLEM!?!?!?

My solution is, if you're there for a boss kill you're saved, for that week. Your LFR is done, thus they will stick around and see the endgame eventually and be less tempted to drop group. Show that it's a raid in progress, giving the option. some people might only want to kill Sha some people might want a fresh clear in a pool of 10m players I imagine this would be doable.
Edited by Creepjacker on 1/25/2013 1:45 PM PST
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19 Tauren Druid
10440
I guess people forget that they can always join or start their own raid group and raid at a set schedule whenever they want. No waiting in a queue at all.
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100 Human Warlock
21225
Those of you complaining about the queue times, do you not do anything else? Do you not do dailies? Do you not run scenarios? Do you not farm or talk with friends or watch TV? Read Books? Organize your bags/bank? Post auctions? Pet Battle? Archy? Farm old content for transmog?
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10635
01/25/2013 11:14 AMPosted by Bashiok
If you enter and complete a partial clear you will be given priority for a fresh run the next time you enter the queue, letting you pick up any missed bosses. The 45 Valor for completing that run too isn't a bad deal, either.


Yes, i have read the whole thread...minus what has happened since this posting. I chose this part because while at work it struck me more than the rest but had to wait until I got home to reply.

So...

I have a decently geared mage and needed to run through HoF to get a couple items I lack and really need upgrades for (staff is the major upgrade needed...450 ilvl). So I queue up for TDA because I need to do it first before I can advance to NoS and again for ToES. I have no issue with advancing from one stage to another...until now.

I get an unexpectantly quick queue (20 mins) to find myself in a 1/3 at boss #2 with skeletons everywhere I look. OK, no prob I'll run this and be done that much quicker. Only problem with that is I only get credit for 2/3 and can't advance to NoS because I haven't completed the first one. Because of one boss? The first and easiest boss?

If I queue up for this and accept and finish the run even though it was a 1/3 when I started shouldn't I get credit for the run? I got the VP and nothing else. What I need mostly resides in NoS and ToES but I'm not allowed to advance because I didn't complete TDA.

If someone queues for LFR shouldn't they at least get a pass to the next stage if they complete the majority of the run? Or at the very least be able to re-queue to get just the boss they need to advance and be able to drop without the deserter flag so they can continue on?

I'm not looking for a handout I'm looking at not getting shafted to get put into another queue to wait another long queue time (I waited for 60+ minutes for a re-queue and had to log because it got too late to wait for round two) because I didn't get crdit for the run.
Edited by Zetail on 1/25/2013 1:44 PM PST
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