World of Warcraft®

now i dont keep track of dps very often but i am wanting to make a alt and those 2 classes to me sound the most fun.

i know sims and stuff show the monk way over the dk in dps but i know sims can be a load of crap so i dont always belive those.

so from you guys who do you you think does more dps in terms of raiding?

i am talking about LFR and 10m normal to be exact i would not take this alt past those 2 type of raids since i main a tank and the alt would only be played a few times a week

DK is far ahead of WW in 5.1, but WW is getting tons of major buffs in 5.2. Pick whichever one you think you'll enjoy most, I expect both to perform fine in 5.2.

i have read the ptr notes. knowing they will probably change by the end.

does ww monk really get that much of a dps boost?

Oh, yes. So much so that the numbers are almost certainly not yet final. WW was already top-end single target DPS, and their single-target DPS is buffed on the current PTR. And they're getting cleave, too.

DKs r not far ahead of WW on live,they do have more burst as frost but they dont have half as many heals a monk has,monks offer u more tools than DKs already do,they have good single target damage and are being extremely buffed as of right now on the PTR.

Long story short go a monk if u wanna be OP go DK if u wanna do OK...

I have 2 level 90s.. a Monk and a DK. They are both around 485ilvl and I can tell you this. Monks own DK in dps and survivability. My Monk can kill stuff 2x faster than the DK and has great self heals that do not affect dps so much like a DK.

DK seems like he gets owned even wearing plate while the monk in his leather takes hits much better.

I have noticed that DPS is much higher on monk than DK.

I am only talking about dps specs so dont come on saying blood survivability is great etc etc.

DK is dual wield frost and my monk wrecks him.

I do enjoy the DK more though but it just sucks that even with same ilvl i do so much better with the monk.

What I love about monks:

Ludicrous mobility on the battlefield

Ranged snares/melee snares

A Disarm that buffs you

Temporary invincibility that ALSO redirects all damage you would take to someone else

Self-heals that you don't even have to try for

CRACKLING JADE LIGHTNING

Your kicks and jabs are fun to watch

5sec, short CD AoE stun

Channeled Directional stun that ALSO deals channeled damage to anyone in front of you

The ability to reflect debuffs back at their caster

Temporary magic damage negation

Oh yeah... you also get the equivalent of Demonic Circle

Now we need someone who loves playing a frost dk to make a list like this so we can compare. If you haven't guessed by now: I FRIGGIN LOVE MY MONK.

Also: You can parry spells xD (and your parries deal damage)

You're all wrong. WW is way behind DK in PvE in 5.1, which is what the OP asked about. That will change in 5.2, as I said.

01/29/2013 05:57 AMPosted by Slant

You're all wrong. WW is way behind DK in PvE in 5.1, which is what the OP asked about. That will change in 5.2, as I said.

I am seeing the exact opposite as this. Dont take this the wrong way, as I do not think i am a great player or something special but i have yet to see a DK beat me in any raid, lfr, random heroic, etc at dps.

I have a 90 monk and 90 frost DK and the monk seems way OP compared to the DK.

01/24/2013 09:49 AMPosted by Slant

DK is far ahead of WW in 5.1, but WW is getting tons of major buffs in 5.2. Pick whichever one you think you'll enjoy most, I expect both to perform fine in 5.2.

It's like the blind leading the blind.

http://www.simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

It's like the blind leading the blind.http://www.simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

This confirms what i am seeing myself with my DK and my monk.. Monk is much better atm.

01/29/2013 06:40 AMPosted by Maxalyss

DK is far ahead of WW in 5.1, but WW is getting tons of major buffs in 5.2. Pick whichever one you think you'll enjoy most, I expect both to perform fine in 5.2.

It's like the blind leading the blind.

http://www.simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html

Oh the irony. Sorry but that Sim isn't even close to real world results. Looking at actual parses
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25L/100/14/60/default/#1111111111111111111111100000000000 WW are sitting at 11th place with Frost DK at 7. Thats a pretty decent lead. Or go to World of Logs and look at where monks are vs dks and the monks don't even come close for the most part. Just a basic look at the very first fight it defaults to (protectors of the endless) shows the first frost dk at #55 and the first ww at #341. Thats not even in the realm of close for crying out load lol.

Heh, simcraft rankings. I'm almost surprised people like you still exist. Almost. The blizz forums, sigh.

Not that the top100 raidbots are much better, of course.

This thread is fill with so many bads and stupid people. Why don't you just go look at the logs? I feel like I am reading a conservative blog where people try to state how they "feel", as fact.

Please go look at raiding logs...DKs dominate WW monks in PVE currently which is what this thread is about.

People bringing up healing, and pvp related crap need to get a clue, and the guy that actually tried to use simcraft to disprove what is happening in game should go dunk their heads in boiling water.

Frost DKs are absolutely doing better than WW this patch. As previously mentioned, though, WW is receiving some nice buffs and a cleave-esque ability. I'd imagine they'd be very solid next patch. Basically, both are good choices.

Simcraft is showing you a computer generated speadsheet of what your dps capabilities are with best in slot gear. I don't give a damn about your real world experiences.

You are out of you damn mind if you think that your real world experiences, or raid bots which doesn't take into account the skewing caused by all the cattle taking the (best) spec.

Raidbots is an average, Simcraft is fact, if the creator of wow came on here and said that in his personal experience Dk's are capable of better dps than ww I would but out my http://www.simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html link.

Frost DK's are faceroll and thereby will appear to parse higher in most cases.

It's like comparing a ret pally to a sub rogue.

Ret is a few procs and a few CD's and a buff, while Sub is WTFBBQ.

Rotations are much improved overall, but that still doesn't mean there's not disparities.

Frost DK's also have little to no ramp-up.

Simcraft is probably right that Windwalkers are among the very best at single target, stand still DPS. They really are that good. The problem is that they are penalized with movement because of Fists of Fury, and they also have no cleave to speak of. Fights this tier have a lot of cleave and a fair amount of movement. So only the few fights where they can really whale away at single target will they stand out.

DKs are better mainly because they aren't penalized by movement in their single target rotation like Monks are. They also do single target/cleave/AoE with practically the same rotation.

01/29/2013 09:24 AMPosted by Maxalyss

Raidbots is an average, Simcraft is fact, if the creator of wow came on here and said that in his personal experience Dk's are capable of better dps than ww I would but out my http://www.simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html link.

I love it when they try to defend rather than educating themselves. Thanks for the chuckle.

SimCraft isn't a bad reference because it's inaccurate, it's a bad reference because it's based on a Patchwerk-style encounter which does not exist.

The only Patchwerk-type fight this tier is Gara'jal if you stay up top and tunnel the boss. Every other boss has variations with movement, cleave, multi-target and AOE situations all with varying durations from sustained to burst. Burst cleave? Burst AOE? Burst single target? There's a fight for everything.

Frost DKs have free cleave/AOE by way of Howling Blast.

If you really want to compare the two for single-target damage look at these two fights:

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Gara'jal_the_Spiritbinder/25H/100/14/60/default/
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Lei_Shi/25H/100/14/60/default/

DKs will do more damage this patch, next patch Windwalkers will probably be better or at least equal. But anything can change from now to then and it's still 2-3 months away.